Ramp check

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by humiliating question, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. granted, in all numbers if years or flying i have yet to receive a rampcheck. However I always without a doubt carry my require docs.

    With that said, does a ramp check require a drug test for
    Part 91.

    My intention is not to cover up drug use of a any kind, I have been cursed with a shy bladder since day on.


    Once had a contract employer watch me for 3 hours to get maybe 2oz. It’s humiliating!

    It was more of just a general question and what to expect..... an yes I’ve tried every trick in the book

    For the medical I know it’s coming and drink 4-5- bottles of water in the parking lot on top of my normal coffee.
     
  2. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Not only will they require you to whip it out and whiz into a cup right then and there, but there will also be a ruler in his hand too...

    Short answer - No.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    N1120A, BrianNC, denverpilot and 5 others like this.
  3. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,502
    Location:
    Hipsterdelphia PDX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mike Brannigan
    I was under the impression that you don't even need to humor them in the case of a Ramp Check, as they are required not to present undue delay to a pilot.

    If I'm wearing a company ID, I'm probably boned. Part 91? I'm suddenly hard of hearing and have a strange inability to detect people with little badges talking to me. Plus I'm in great haste.
     
  4. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,886
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Not to worry the FAA inspectors are here to help you.
     
    PaulS likes this.
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    20,207
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    If someone asks you to do that, probably not the FAA lol

    Or something is VERY wrong lol

    But hey, some on here let their AME put digits up their butts too, and like it, strange world we live in.

    But no, that’s not part of their little checklist for 91 ramps last I remember.
     
    N1120A, DFH65, jbarrass and 2 others like this.
  6. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Exactly.
     
  7. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    666
    Location:
    Wheaton IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rk911
    was ramp checked once as a student with my CFI present. he said i did well. took maybe 5-minutes. the inspector was new and had never seen an LSA before.
     
  8. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    Tantalum, KA550 and midlifeflyer like this.
  9. ryan1NM

    ryan1NM Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    6
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ryan1NM
    Doc Holliday, thanks for sharing.
     
  10. simtech

    simtech En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,725
    Location:
    mississippi
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Simtech
    I was ramp checked once. All they did was ask for my medical, license, and the documents for the plane. Super painless and took less than 2 minutes. They were cordial and never disrespectful. I seriously doubt they walk around with a cup so some person can pizz in it. If you are talking about part 91 and actually concerned about having a pizz test while ramp checked then I believe you have something to hide....but that's not our business and for another annyonomous topic. Hope I'm wrong and yeah being pizz shy is real, you are not alone.
     
    Kenny Phillips and Ryanb like this.
  11. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    5,037
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    These days, ASIs don't get many opportunities to get out on the ramp and do inspections just for the heck of it. Often when it does happen it's a pair of two inspectors: one is getting OJT and checking off the box for conducting ramp checks. You'll also see them do some ramp checks when they're already out at the airport investigating some other incident or visiting a certificate holder like a 135 operation or 141 flight school.
     
  12. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Esquire99
    FAA doesn't drug test part 91 at all. The pee sample you give during a medical, as I understand it, isn't use for a drug test but to check various bodily functions.
     
  13. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    508
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JamieK
    Just keep repeating that you are a sovereign citizen and you were not flying, just traveling. Then keep asking AM I BEING DETAINED, you’ll be in your merry way shortly and your junk will stay in your pants.
     
    WWFeldman likes this.
  14. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    o_O :rolleyes:
     
  15. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    7,007
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    I've had one ramp check. While a student.

    The FSDO guy was there to do a DPE checkout for another student getting his PPL. How's that for fun, private checkride with TWO people who can fail you.

    Anyway, the FSDO guy was bored so he ramp checked me for practice. Non-event.
     
  16. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,540
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    The FAA is broke. I haven't seen an inspector in years.
     
  17. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,816
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    You forgot "never hand your certificate to the inspector - just hold it so he/she can see it".
     
  18. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I’ve actually always wondered about that. I know they say ‘never surrender’ but why? What’s the inspector going to do - run off with your documents?
     
    bradg33 likes this.
  19. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Esquire99
    There's a very specific process for surrendering your certificate. Simply handing it to an inspector during a ramp check isn't part of that process. Refusing to hand your certs to an inspector is the flying equivalent of "AM I BEING DETAINED" and those guys who won't roll down their windows at traffic stops.
     
  20. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
  21. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Hm, I’ll look over that some more in detail.

    I suppose I just don’t see what the big deal is. If a police officer asks you for your drivers license, it won’t work out too well by just picking it up and saying ‘here it is, but look only’. If an inspector asks for your certificate, why can’t he just grab it, look at it and hand it back? Doesn’t mean I’m ‘surrendering’ it, I’m just allowing him to look at it per his request. Just sounds like more hoopla...
     
  22. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,608
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    I’ve handed my cert to an FAA inspector during a ramp check. That’s not the same thing as surrendering your cert.
     
  23. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    The "never give an Inspector your certificate" is yet another internet myth with no basis in reality.

    The guidance I cited explains the process of surrender. It's complicated, and detailed. Even if a pilot walked into a FSDO and handed the ASI a certificate and states "Take it, I don't want it", it still doesn't constitute a surrender without following the procedures.
     
  24. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,036
    Location:
    high desert NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    One of the many ramp checks I have gone through. Back when I was flying a C-210 hauling cancelled checks.

    I had parked, finished for the night, and was walking towards the office. I was walking in front of a line of probably 15 C-210s. The last plane I was walking by was a low wing of some kind. That is when I noticed my shoe lace was untied. I stopped and bent over to tie the lace, and when I bent over my flight bag emptied itself.

    So after tying my shoe, I started stuffing everything back in my flight bag. I noticed two people walking towards me. As I stood up one of the guys introduced himself, then started looking at the low wing. He started showing me things that were wrong with the plane. The more he found, the louder he got. He finally finished and told me he would speak to the Director of Maintenance about the poor shape of the plane and for me to expect some sort of discipline for flying it in such condition.

    I asked him why he was telling me all this. He really yelled this time, telling me I was in several violations for flying this plane.

    I put my flight bag down, put my hands on my hips and yelled back, loudly. I WAS NOT FLYING THIS PLANE.!!! I DO NOT KNOW WHO THIS PLANE BELONGS TO.!!

    This guy looked at me with a surprised look on is face and did not say a word. I picked up my flight bag and walked away.
     
    denverpilot, AKBill and NoHeat like this.
  25. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Roger. I’ll have another read of it.

    Thanks Doc
     
  26. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    508
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JamieK
    What certificate? Sovereign citizen, you don’t need no stinking certificate because they have rights man. Rights.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe likes this.
  27. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  28. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,276
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    It seems the surest way to get ramp checked is to be a student pilot. Happened to me too. The FAA guy was friendly enough. I was cussing the flying club chieftains, though, who insisted that the entire bag of maintenance manuals be kept in the airplanes, in the baggage compartment. Stupid, stupid idea. "Do you know where the aircraft log books are?" Heavy sigh... "Yes, I'm afraid I do." That cost me nearly half an hour of hoping to hell the mechanic and maintenance guy had everything properly documented. In the end, he wrote up a cracked nose tire.

    We did manage to get my CFI out of the plane and out of sight before the FAA inspector saw him. Seems he was without his wallet... and certificates...
     
  29. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Esquire99
    In the future, the proper answer to that question is "I do, and I'd be happy to arrange a mutually convenient time for you to review them. I don't have time for it now as I have other obligations to attend to."
     
  30. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    Unless I missed something, it wasn't his airplane. The registered owner or operator (flight school?) has the obligation to present the logbooks upon request.
     
  31. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,069
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    I hope they don't notice my Q tipped prop......o_O

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
    denverpilot likes this.
  32. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    That myth will never die.
     
    denverpilot and Checkout_my_Six like this.
  33. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,069
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    you say that....but the new crop in my FSDO are a bunch of retired military types....who hardly know GA.

    They are, however, much easier to deal with....they even text.

    and Full disclosure:... I'm not gonna be out and about when they're doing surveillance....cause they ain't working weekends and holidays. ;)
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  34. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    9,091
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Just carry a bag of clean urine with you , problem solved.
     
  35. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    LOL
     
  36. geezer

    geezer Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2019
    Messages:
    220
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kruse'n
    Bob Hoover handed his certificate to an FAA employee, who did not return it

    It took years to go through the legal system to get it back, and he flew his air show in Australia while his legal team fought the FAA.


    The FAA successfully maintained in court that if you willingly handed your certificate to their employee, you had surrendered it.

    Thus, the new rule that they cannot ask you to hand them the certificate, just hold it so they can read it.


    Dumb, yes. Legally established in court, yes.


    I have attended Bobs airshow several times over the years, and met him personally. What the FAA did to him was criminal, but they got away with it.

    I last met Bob following his last airshow flight at Sun and Fun. I have one of his gold Mustang tie tacks, and wear it with pride. That last show was just as near perfect as the first one I saw many years earlier.

    Back to the original post, yes, I have been ramp checked, it was friendly, we had all the proper documents. At the beginning of the check, they presented their FAA identity cards. They asked if they could look at the engine space, we agreed, and after a close look with a flashlight, they complimented us on how clean it was.

    We then asked that we end the check, as we had an IFR flight plan out, with a clearance void time, they responded "Have a good flight" and we departed.

    The FAA rules may have been changed, but I will not hand my certificate to any FAA employee, just say I knew Bob Hoover personally, and this is the way it is done since he handed his to someone.
     
    Computerjim likes this.
  37. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    3,028
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    That's why I only fly on warm days.
     
    Ryanb likes this.
  38. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    Please go read the guidance I posted. Even if the ASI was foolish enough to walk away with it, nothing stops you from getting a duplicate. IT'S NOT SURRENDERED.

    The Bob Hoover incident took place 28 years ago. And a lot of it has fallen into myth now. Yes, some Inspectors acted foolishly and outside the scope of their employment, and that was dealt with internally.
     
    Brad Z and Ryanb like this.
  39. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,000
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Hahahaha!
     
  40. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,587
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    I think Bryan still has his MS Medical Simulator kit for sale...
     
    PaulS likes this.