R182 and GFC500 STC (not yet)

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Landing Fees, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. RandyB

    RandyB Filing Flight Plan

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    Received this 04/05/2018 per my submission of R182 to be added to the list

    Thank you for reaching out. At this time we do not have any announcements regarding the timeline of upcoming autopilot certifications. Your request has been received and we will use this information to evaluate the marketplace for future certification efforts.

    For now, I have logged your information into our autopilot interest log and appreciate your note. We do not have a firm schedule at this time. Please find the most up to date supported aircraft information at the links below. If you sign up for the Garmin Aviation Newsletter (look for “Stay Informed” on the middle-right side of this web page: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/), you will get pro-active communications on our most recent announcements and plans. Again, we greatly appreciate your direct feedback. If you might have any other questions, please let me know. Thank you!

    garmin.com/gfc600aircraft

    garmin.com/gfc500aircraft

    Kyle Lennemann | Aviation Associate Sales Manager

    upload_2018-4-6_9-38-5.jpg
     
  2. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    Same letter I got asking about Mooneys.
     
  3. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yabut, we're already on the list, to be started within the next 12 months.
     
  4. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    Maybe but Im going with squeaky wheel gets the grease theory.
     
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  5. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Flight Custom III's are squeakless. Flight Custom III's and a GFC500 are apparently priceless. I received the same note from Kyle, I was told by an avionics shop installer that was at AEA last week, that Garmin avoided talking about the gaping holes in the GFC500 STC list.
     
  6. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sounds to me like they don't have the man power to make it happen in a timely manner, probably not interested in hiring more either. One new series aircraft per quarter is probably optimistic. Every one they add is gonna have some oddities that weren't originally accounted for and drawrings will have to be revised and approved as installers run into issues.
     
  7. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    There less than 2000 R182s in service. No demand.
     
  8. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's a lot for a single type, actually. They're going to do the GFC 600 for the Cessna 340, and less than 1400 of those were ever built.
     
  9. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Mo Money and willing to spend there tho’.
     
  10. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, but the GFC600 costs a lot more as well.

    To me, it's silly that the 36 Bonanzas aren't getting the GFC500 and are stuck with the 600. Yes, the newest ones are still in the low $400K range, but the older ones are down in the low $100K range. Who's going to spend over 20% of their plane's value on a single piece of equipment? Not I... And I'm a major gadget freak.

    The calculus is the same for us with the Mooney. Garmin will either get our money for a GFC500, or they won't... If they try to force the G600 on us, we'll just keep the KFC150, thankyouverymuch. Should the G500TXi become capable of driving the GFC500 and the GFC500 become certified for the M20R, we would no longer need the GAD43e and that'd make the GFC500 pretty attractive - We're willing to spend *some* money to ditch the King, even though it's finally working after dumping thousands into it. The GFC600 is just not in that range.

    I'm optimistic, though - Mooneys are on their list for the GFC500, and while it says models are TBD, Garmin owns an M20R. :D
     
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  11. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We talked to two Garmin Reps at SNF and one said it will be at least a year on the STC for R182s and the other, the one many of you get in your e-mails to Garmin said that they have only heard from about 20 people so far requesting the STC for the R182. I guess .1% isn't enough to make them work quicker. One rep said the cardinal owners group has been the most vocal.

    I guess we will look at Trutrak and Trio. One shop told us that the Trio was low end. The Trutrak isn't certified yet but both seem to be comparable.
     
  12. Volitation

    Volitation Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sent an email April 17 and a follow up the next day, Garmin has yet to have the courtesy to respond.
     
  13. RandyB

    RandyB Filing Flight Plan

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    If you haven't read it yet, there is an article in the May issue of Cessna Owner Magazine about the installation of a Trio Pro Autopilot in a R182.
     
  14. Paul H

    Paul H Filing Flight Plan

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    In my Cessna R182 i just installed a Trio pro pilot it took a bit to tune so it will climb or descend as per the installation manual. you need to adjust the max descent speed closer to Vne as it is set at 140, when you tell it to descend and you are crusing at 140 it then climbs to slow the plane I changed mine to 170 from 140 this helped. You need to tune the Trio autopilot in a specific order or it dosen't show how good it is. I was disappointed with the Trio at first, then received the set up order from an old pro and what a big difference it made. When I say I , I mean my Avionics Tec
     
  15. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We decided to wait for the TruTrak which was “promised” by Oshkosh. Failed by Garmin and now TruTrak. I don’t think we seriously considered the Trio but might as one partner really wants an autopilot yesterday. I am still (secretly) holding out for the GFC500 to overcome Garmin integration issues. Any chance you could share your extensive setup knowledge (PM me) so that I may less it to my partners to assist in the decision making process?
     
  16. Paul H

    Paul H Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi I live in NZ you can call me on +6421949080 and I would be glad to talk through the full setup of my plane and the STC has been done time in NZ of this post is 10.13am nzt or 22.13 UTC just started on here so I dont yet know how to PM you
     
  17. SSV182

    SSV182 Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm considering the Trio for an upgrade in our TR182, but have heard conflicting information about (1) whether it will do coupled RNAV approaches with GPSV guidance in the certified model, and (2) that G5 interface is imminent, but not intuitive (not as simple as adjusting heading or altitude bugs).
    Does anyone have any experience or heard anything?
     
  18. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I don’t believe the Trio is certified for couples approaches.
     
  19. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Looked at the Garmin site and saw that the R182 is still in limbo but they keep adding aircraft to the “working on it right now” like the 180 and 185.

    Somebody at Garmin who flies a Cherokee 140 or 150hp 172 must have had been dumped by a lady who left them for an RG Pilot.

    I get it you are hurting right now but it’s not you it’s her. Please get me an autopilot to go with my Garmin stack.
     
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  20. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

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    There are plenty of retracts on the STC list already, so I don't see how that is the issue.
     
  21. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure its all marketing strategy a this point. As mentioned, there are many retracts on there, several Beech retracts and some Cessna 210s.

    The main website shows the GFC500 starting at $X,XXX*, I'm pretty sure they are amortizing certification costs into the installation kit (brackets, replacement cables, etc) costs by projected sales.
     
  22. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I checked yesterday just to make sure I didn't miss out my plane. Talked to Garmin rep at SNF and he said the most organized group was the Cardinal owners but they still aren't STC'd. Naturally I want my plane STC'd, understand if it is an economic issue but don't like the lack of info.

    Also looked into TruTrak because according to TruTrak (at SNF) the R182 also going to have the STC by OshKosh. They send out an e-mail for CC numbers in July to get on the list some time later. By September they still hadn't said anything. Pulled my name from the pre-order list. Still not STC'd yet.
     
  23. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I hope TruTrak comes out with auto pitch trim, then I would buy in a heartbeat for the Cardinal. I've been spoiled by the GFC500 with optional auto trim :-( in Dad's airplane
     
  24. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    At least you've made it into the "certification to begin within the next 12 months" list from Garmin:

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional
     
  25. Volitation

    Volitation Pre-takeoff checklist

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  26. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    KKKHHHHHAAAANNNNN. F33A Bonanza's got certified (989 registered). Still no R182 (1244 registered) probably because we are po.
     
  27. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    At the bottom it says "Last updated 2/21/2019"... But not a lot has changed. I think they added the Piper T-tails, maybe. The Mooney cert is all but done - The AFMS has been available on their site for a month at least. I'm guessing they're stacking up a bunch of approvals to announce at (or right before) Sun-n-Fun, and that everything on the "in progress" list will be announced as done at that point, and a large portion of the "next 12 months" list will be moved to "in progress"... And I bet they'll do the same thing around Oshkosh. In fact, I have reason to believe that the R182 might be in the "done at Oshkosh" group.
     
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  28. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If only I knew the right person to bribe with hookers and blow, eight hours before flying, of course.
     
  29. Volitation

    Volitation Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Don’t toy with me, I’m in a glass case of emotion. Lol.

    Seriously, thanks for the update, are you free to elaborate?
     
  30. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Damn you Garmin. They just put the R182 on the “we are working on it” list. Out TruTrak install starts Monday.
     
  31. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not if you cancel it...

    Like I said, R182 should be done by OSH. It's installed and they're flight testing it right now. In fact, it may only be a couple more weeks before it's on the STC, and then a few more after that they should have all the parts ready for order.
     
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  32. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Cancelling our install. Getting our old auto pilot taken out since it isn't working anyway with the G5s. Thanks for the tip.
     
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  33. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

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    It is odd they didn't do it in the first place. It isn't like this is a super rare airplane.
     
  34. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They're still plowing through a lot of not-rare airplanes - They just finished the A36 Bonanza a week ago. Unfortunately, the process is not trivial.
     
  35. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

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    The A36 Bonanza was them being greedy. They certified the 600 for that right away. Totally different than from the R182, which doesn't consistently go for more money that it really is worth, unlike the A36.
     
  36. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    True, but if you look at the list of planes they haven't even started on yet, the R182 actually is kind of rare. 2,041 were produced.

    They haven't even started on: 172RG, 177, 206, 210, M20 A through G models, the high-performance Cherokees (235, Pathfinder, Dakota), the Arrow, Lance, and Saratoga.
     
  37. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Good call on the cancellation @Landing Fees. @flyingcheesehead is correct. Thanks to @denverpilot for alerting me to this thread.

    Garmin is using my TR182 to do the STC certification. They wanted a TR182 if possible, as all the work done to certify the TR would bubble down to the R; the opposite is not true. If they did it with an R182 they’d have to do it again with the TR182. So they satisfy both groups of swing leg owners by doing it in this order.

    I’m not under any NDA, so I’ll share what I can while maintaining privacy on individual’s names at Garmin.

    In late March 2019 Garmin contacted me, from the list of submitted “interested” forms. They wanted to ensure my aircraft was as close to original aerodynamically as possible (no STOL kit, VG’s, etc.). They flew one of their experienced Cessna A&P’s to Texas to perform a thorough inspection and write up of the airplane.

    I had, over the December timeframe, upgraded my panel to a flat metal panel with dual G5’s, and prewired as much as possible for the GFC 500 (trim and A/P disconnect switch wires to the yoke horn, correct circuit breakers labeled and installed on the new breaker panel, audio panel wires to where the GMC 507 installs in the radio stack, the CAN bus connection loop to the G5’s from the GMC 507, etc.). I made Garmin aware of these items when I was done. I’m not sure if it helped in the selection process, but it probably didn’t hurt.

    After completing their legal agreements for use of the airplane and getting it on their insurance policy, I flew the aircraft to Olathe the first week of April, one week after the inspection.

    They sent me progress reports and pictures, and earlier this week they did the first of the test flight series. They said that flight had no issues.

    I’m expecting to get the plane back in about three weeks (first week of June) and will have it at Oshkosh if anyone would like to see it.

    They said it will take about ten weeks after they finish with my airplane for install kits to be available to dealers, which would be mid August to September.

    They are doing this install with ALL options: you will be able to get automatic electric pitch trim (my airplane never had electric trim, manual only), and the yaw damper too. Note the Go Around button in the pics below, positioned right where your extended index finger can press it while pushing in the throttle on a go around.... that commands the flight director bars and the autopilot to climb.

    “Gear up, flaps up, yaw damper on” is coming to you soon!

    P.S.—I got to meet the folks involved with the program and see the test flight facility and other aircraft under work. They are BUSY. This process takes some time, and they have a popular product. I too heard NOTHING from them despite multiple updates and emails until “it’s time.” Be patient! Good things await our aging GA fleet.

    AFA8F033-3764-4394-A9B7-4F4EB611A379.jpeg

    7BCB787D-D524-4AC2-88DB-E6130145EC67.jpeg

    D0D6D5F6-C80B-4079-BCC0-6D671C931350.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  38. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Great post, Troy! Thanks for the details! :thumbsup: And please, stick around! We missed you here!

    Wait, @denverpilot is here again? :eek: :rofl:

    Woohoo! See you there. I would *definitely* like to see it!

    Did they recommend you put it there, or did you ask for it there? I've been trying to figure out where that button should go eventually when we do the GFC 500. I have similar push/pull controls in the Mooney. That's one spot I had thought of, but I was also thinking that it could replace the CWS button we currently have on the yoke, since the GFC 500 doesn't do CWS.
     
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  39. Landing Fees

    Landing Fees Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I feel like a teenage girl all over again. If I was one the first time. Thanks for the write-up @TangoWhiskey
     
  40. BrianNC

    BrianNC Pattern Altitude

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    I think he's here all the time. He just doesn't post any more.
     
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