Proposed Restrictions at San Carlos Airport (SQL)

It amazes me the number of people who will comment on this without understanding the issue. Let me be clear -- unless you study the issue, YOU ARE NOISE. I'll be frank. Shut up, or you'll make it worse. You will make all the legitimate arguments look like uninformed outsiders'.

This is not a complaint about airport noise. It is not a complaint about longstanding operations. It is a complaint about overflights by one NEW SCHEDULED AIR CARRIER who has been at it only a few years. It's going to the airport specifically because no one in the area is listening. Atherton has been complaining about Surf Air since they started, and they have gotten no traction whatsoever.

Leave the noise out. It does damage, in the sense that it makes the opposition appear totally uninformed, and will give the complainants plenty of ammunition with a claim that pilots can't be trusted to police themselves because they simply don't have a clue. If you must speak up, study the issues first and respond to the actual issues, not your prejudices.

If you want to make a difference, perhaps a measurement of overflight noise compared to ambient at a few key locations -- CalTrain tracks, El Camino, I-280, Alameda de las Pulgas, etc -- might make a more coherent argument. Responding to the wrong problem is a truly stupid thing to do.


Here's the problem, they are suddenly bitching about roughly 20 arrivals per weekday of a very quiet single engine plane. The airport has been there and in operation for generations, with far more than 20 arrivals per day of all types. Saying that SurfAir somehow made things exponentially worse is a pretty tough argument to make when they are a tiny fraction of the overall traffic. Sounds to me like they see money in the sky and view it as an easy target for their boredom. Maybe if all the real housewives of Atherton actually worked during the day instead of sitting at home watching Oprah it wouldn't be an issue because they'd actually have something productive to do with their time.
 
Here's the problem, they are suddenly bitching about roughly 20 arrivals per weekday of a very quiet single engine plane. The airport has been there and in operation for generations, with far more than 20 arrivals per day of all types. Saying that SurfAir somehow made things exponentially worse is a pretty tough argument to make when they are a tiny fraction of the overall traffic. Sounds to me like they see money in the sky and view it as an easy target for their boredom. Maybe if all the real housewives of Atherton actually worked during the day instead of sitting at home watching Oprah it wouldn't be an issue because they'd actually have something productive to do with their time.
Exactly

KSQL
Aircraft operations: avg 306/day *
51% local general aviation
46% transient general aviation
3% air taxi
<1% military
* for 12-month period ending 22 July 2015


Oooooooooh, they went from 286 operations a day to 306! The horror.
 
Looking at the plates and comparing it to Google Maps, it would seem that the approach is pretty much over the railroad tracks. Said tracks also seem to be right next to a commercial thoroughfare (El Camino Real).

Yeah, sounds like there's no meat on them bones.
 
Exactly

KSQL
Aircraft operations: avg 306/day *
51% local general aviation
46% transient general aviation
3% air taxi
<1% military
* for 12-month period ending 22 July 2015


Oooooooooh, they went from 286 operations a day to 306! The horror.

So...clearly I'm on board both with keeping KSQL restriction free, as it's one of my local aerodromes and also keeping Surf Air around, as my company uses them as a convenient and fast way to SoCal. I've yet to fly them, but will probably soon. That said...

286 to 306 is a red herring. Very few flights into KSQL are IFR. Few are turboprops. What would be more interesting is the rise of the use of the one and only approach into KSQL with the arrival of Surf Air. The number of turboprop approaches went up astronomically with Surf Air. Entering the room with the argument that they are complaining about a long-standing noise is incorrect. These folks may be incredibly entitled and selfish, but they're not stupid. They would tear that argument up.

Even the argument that the airport was there first is a non-starter. It just doesn't matter that the airport was there first. We change land use, especially public land use, all the time. We have to with changing requirements on our communities. This is why there are planning boards! Telling the planning board that they can't plan because the airport was already there is like sticking a twig in their eye and expecting them to smile.

I don't want SQL to grow any needless rules. I don't want any more airports to go away. If we're going to succeed at that, we have to use one of two methods: Either we argue for the value of the airport or we bar the removal through legal system. Tell them the airport is valuable. Let them use Surf Air and see how nice it is! Something. I don't know. But the argument about the airport being there already just doesn't stand alone at all.
 
Must be a California thing. Out here we have a completely different perspective on if it's there first, too bad. Only the liberal feifdoms try and change everything.
 
Must be a California thing. Out here we have a completely different perspective on if it's there first, too bad. Only the liberal feifdoms try and change everything.
No airport closures in your state?
 
Only from lack of use. Baraga closed or is scheduled, but I am pretty sure have been the only plane in there in the past 4 years. It's not from residence whining and bitching. I think there was another cow pasture that was closed - also from lack of use. Literally when I was there, there was cows on the runway. That was privately owned by a ranch/golf course, but not enough use. But we reopened 6Y9, 6Y3, and are working on reopening a 3rd and possibly 4th in the next couple years. So we are opening more than are closing
 
Must be a California thing. Out here we have a completely different perspective on if it's there first, too bad. Only the liberal feifdoms try and change everything.

Not a California thing, or really anything to do with liberal politics. The difference here is population density. The Bay Area may not be Manhattan, but it's packed and there is no space to be had. Every bit of land had something on it before. Think about KSMO: Those aren't granola Democrats calling for the closure. It's very Republican land developers that are salivating at the money that could be made with that patch of land. Fortunately, there haven't been any successful attacks recently on the local airports. The population here is generally aviation-friendly. That doesn't mean that the governments want to keep the airports. Santa Clara County is tired of dealing with both KRHV and E16, but they're stuck with them for now because of a vibrant pilot community.

The problem with KSQL is that it sits in the shadow of KSFO. There just aren't very many approaches that could be made into the airport that wouldn't screw up a fantastically complex airspace. So, it gets the one it has. And the one it has goes over Atherton. In Wisconsin, this wouldn't be a big deal. Just move the approach around until everyone is happy. The land is so open that these options exist. There just aren't any such options in the Bay Area.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not defending this entitled stupidity. I'm just saying that if we're going to defend our airports, the argument that we were here first does nothing to help us. Usually, the airports AND the residential districts are older than their occupants, as is the case here. The airports can be kept, but the case has to be made FOR the airport, not AGAINST the neighbors. We need to defend our airports vigorously, and that most common argument of all isn't going to help us keep them.

flight-paths.jpg

Note...all the airports in the image have instrument approaches. Only the big airport approaches are shown. There's also KCCR just north of the cut that has approaches, too. Also, there's an East plan that's even more complex when a storm blows in and the winds change direction.
 
Every airport should have old historical photographs and a historical pamphlet outlining the historical aspect of the airport. When the locals get wind of the astronauts and military heroes that trained at their airport they will soften up a bit. Dont' want to close "a piece of history". If such documents don't exist, get active and create them. It really helps!
 
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not defending this entitled stupidity. I'm just saying that if we're going to defend our airports, the argument that we were here first does nothing to help us. Usually, the airports AND the residential districts are older than their occupants, as is the case here. The airports can be kept, but the case has to be made FOR the airport, not AGAINST the neighbors. We need to defend our airports vigorously, and that most common argument of all isn't going to help us keep them.
Agree with this.

Every airport should have old historical photographs and a historical pamphlet outlining the historical aspect of the airport. When the locals get wind of the astronauts and military heroes that trained at their airport they will soften up a bit. Dont' want to close "a piece of history". If such documents don't exist, get active and create them. It really helps!
And this.
 
Authoritarians with more money than brains do not care about how much money the airport makes or what other good it does the businesses in the area unless they own one of them or a golf buddy does.

They also rarely care about keeping things around that bother them for historical purposes. This last one I know all too well from my sister who's job it is as a restoration and historical building architect to come up with ways to keep the uber-rich who want a new strip mall, out of trouble in historic building districts. Prior to this gig she worked briefly on the opposite side of that table, reviewing the building permit requests in City government.
 
Authoritarians with more money than brains do not care about how much money the airport makes or what other good it does the businesses in the area unless they own one of them or a golf buddy does.

They also rarely care about keeping things around that bother them for historical purposes. This last one I know all too well from my sister who's job it is as a restoration and historical building architect to come up with ways to keep the uber-rich who want a new strip mall, out of trouble in historic building districts. Prior to this gig she worked briefly on the opposite side of that table, reviewing the building permit requests in City government.

Won't disagree with any of that. But I'll also note they care not two whits about any argument that we were here first, either.

I don't know quite what the argument that will work is. It a tragedy of the commons, usually. Individually, the land a GA airport is on in a complex metro space is hard to justify. Hell, even the big internationals are hard to justify. The Bay Area is unusual in that the three international airports are actually in the cities that name them. (Well, SFO only on a technicality, as there's a city or two between SFO and San Francisco proper. But it's still pretty close.) But the system as a whole only works and adds value to the US economy if it is large and robust. Individual cities show better numbers by scrapping airports, but the whole country suffers as a result.

That's why I listed the second way to keep the airport around: force it legally. The FAA rules exist to do just that so that the country doesn't have to lose its air network to the cities and counties shortsightedness.
 
I don't know quite what the argument that will work is.

Get one of the Alpha's of the pack's, kids, hooked so hard on aviation, that they tell dead old dad and mom they want them to fight the other rich kids to keep the airport.

Allow fur to fly at cocktail parties. Protecting the young always trumps property value. Ha.

Barring that, toss one of the Alpha group's kids who majored in underwater basket weaving and is still living at home at 26, a cushy airport job complete with hangar apartment lodging thrown in for cost of utilities.

:)

Y'all aren't creative enough. Haha.
 
I meant that here only the liberals bastions are the ones whining about certain land uses - mostly Ann Arbor, trying to shut down generational farms as they expand the sprawl and don't like the smells.
 
I meant that here only the liberals bastions are the ones whining about certain land uses - mostly Ann Arbor, trying to shut down generational farms as they expand the sprawl and don't like the smells.
EVERY city has land use disputes. It's part of what it means to be a city.

If you think that has anything at all to do with being "liberal," you're living in a fantasy world.
 
This is threatening to go down a political bent. That was not my intent.

I only aimed to point out that the "we were there first" argument, whether you think it's a valid argument or not, is ineffective at holding on to airfields. We need to be smarter and political leanings aren't critical here. (Whether you think they matter or not in this case is up to you. At the moment you're defending an airport, you don't get to pick the board in front of you, so best figure out how they think. How you think is utterly irrelevant at that point.)
 
EVERY city has land use disputes. It's part of what it means to be a city.

If you think that has anything at all to do with being "liberal," you're living in a fantasy world.

How do most cities vote?

QED
 
The problem is the knee-jerk, hostile response every time people complain about airport noise. You'll never win anyone over to your side that way.

As far as the liberal/conservative argument goes, I remember hearing a lot of complaining about DEN when it moved east and that's a rural, very red area.
 
The problem is the knee-jerk, hostile response every time people complain about airport noise. You'll never win anyone over to your side that way.

As far as the liberal/conservative argument goes, I remember hearing a lot of complaining about DEN when it moved east and that's a rural, very red area.

Yeah, but that's not an existing airport and people moving nearby to it, and then complaining. That's putting a new (huge) airport into an area where people lived to get away from that sort of thing. Pretty much the complete opposite situation.
 
Yeah, but that's not an existing airport and people moving nearby to it, and then complaining. That's putting a new (huge) airport into an area where people lived to get away from that sort of thing. Pretty much the complete opposite situation.
No, it's the same thing. People complaining about how others want to use the land.
 
No, it's the same thing. People complaining about how others want to use the land.

Completely different. SQL is complaining about land that's already designated as an airport. DEN was constructing a new airport where there wasn't already one, (unless there was one there - I don't know) completely changing the use of the land. If you buy into a subdivision that is next to a pig farm and then complain about the smell, you have no right to complain. If buy into a subdivision next to property designated as wetlands, and then it becomes converted into a pig farm you have a right to complain. The land use and designation completely changed with DEN. It hasn't with SQL. Not even close to the same situation.
 
Completely different. SQL is complaining about land that's already designated as an airport. DEN was constructing a new airport where there wasn't already one, (unless there was one there - I don't know) completely changing the use of the land. If you buy into a subdivision that is next to a pig farm and then complain about the smell, you have no right to complain. If buy into a subdivision next to property designated as wetlands, and then it becomes converted into a pig farm you have a right to complain. The land use and designation completely changed with DEN. It hasn't with SQL. Not even close to the same situation.
SQL had small piston traffic until Surf Air moved in. The land use changed. Same situation.
 
SQL had small piston traffic until Surf Air moved in. The land use changed. Same situation.

I didn't know that SQL was designated as a ONLY piston airplane use only airport. Do airports such as those exist? Was it an airport before Surf Air? Yes. Is it still an airport? Yes. Doesn't seem like the land use changed at all. It was an airport, and still is an airport. Are you sure that in all the years that SQL existed a 208 NEVER flew in or out of there prior to Surf Air. A PC-12 NEVER flew in or out there prior to Surf Air? A turbine helicopter NEVER flew in or out prior to Surf Air. I would bet an entire year's pay, that prior to 2013 at some point a turbine aircraft of some sort flew into or out of SQL. The use didn't change at all - still an airport.
 
I didn't know that SQL was designated as a ONLY piston airplane use only airport. Do airports such as those exist? Was it an airport before Surf Air? Yes. Is it still an airport? Yes. Doesn't seem like the land use changed at all. It was an airport, and still is an airport. Are you sure that in all the years that SQL existed a 208 NEVER flew in or out of there prior to Surf Air. A PC-12 NEVER flew in or out there prior to Surf Air? A turbine helicopter NEVER flew in or out prior to Surf Air. I would bet an entire year's pay, that prior to 2013 at some point a turbine aircraft of some sort flew into or out of SQL. The use didn't change at all - still an airport.
One PC-12 every once in awhile is different than 20 per day or whatever they are claiming. Note that I don't agree that the flights should be stopped but you can't say the situation hasn't changed.
 
One PC-12 every once in awhile is different than 20 per day or whatever they are claiming. Note that I don't agree that the flights should be stopped but you can't say the situation hasn't changed.

Disagree. It's an airport. It's still 2600'. It's still Class D. It hasn't moved (plate tectonics notwithstanding). There's no change. It's a moderately busy airport in a metro area. An increase in traffic is to be expected. That's all that's happened.
 
Disagree. It's an airport. It's still 2600'. It's still Class D. It hasn't moved (plate tectonics notwithstanding). There's no change. It's a moderately busy airport in a metro area. An increase in traffic is to be expected. That's all that's happened.
Not necessarily. We hear all the time here how air traffic is falling off and airports are deserted. That is not the case in the Bay Area. But what's good for one segment of the population is not necessarily good for another.
 
I didn't know that SQL was designated as a ONLY piston airplane use only airport. Do airports such as those exist? Was it an airport before Surf Air? Yes. Is it still an airport? Yes. Doesn't seem like the land use changed at all. It was an airport, and still is an airport. Are you sure that in all the years that SQL existed a 208 NEVER flew in or out of there prior to Surf Air. A PC-12 NEVER flew in or out there prior to Surf Air? A turbine helicopter NEVER flew in or out prior to Surf Air. I would bet an entire year's pay, that prior to 2013 at some point a turbine aircraft of some sort flew into or out of SQL. The use didn't change at all - still an airport.

Larry Ellison operates a jet out of SQL:


But, I'm sure that the advent of Surf Air has made turbine operations substantially more common than the used to be at SQL.
 
Here are my somewhat vague impressions of today's Board of Supervisors meeting:

Consideration of this agenda item started a little after 10:00 AM and continued until a little after 1:00 PM, with one short break. An overflow crowd attended, and chairs and audio were set up in the lobby so that people there could hear what was going on. (There may have been video too.)

There were some introductory remarks by staff, during which the floor was turned over at one point to the county counsel, who made what seemed to me to be a fairly well informed summary of what was within the county's options and what was not. The county counsel also had brought along an outside legal consultant, who had expertise in how airports around the country have dealt with such issues.

Next came public comments. A wide variety of opinions were expressed, with the majority speaking in defense of the airport. The speakers were limited to two minutes each. Almost all the complaints were related to Surf Air operations.

A representative of Surf Air also spoke. He said there were some mitigation efforts that were either being adopted or considered, but that a sticking point was that they were still trying to work out something with the FAA and ATC to allow more of their approaches to come in over the bay instead of over neighborhoods, I think there was a mention of their ops specs currently confining them to IFR operations even in good weather. (The sole instrument approach goes over the aggrieved neighborhoods.) It sounded like he thought they were close to getting something worked out in that regard. Also mentioned was that they are establishing operations at Oakland and San Jose, and that this may allow some reduction in operations at San Carlos.

The members of the Board of Supervisors seemed to be in fact-finding mode and desirous of finding a solution that would not destroy what the airport has to offer. Several of them volunteered that they had no interest in closing the airport. The discussion ended with a conclusion that the board needed more information. Staff were instructed to come up with a study proposal. There was also mention of some sort of progress having been made last night at a meeting that the supervisors were not present at, and they intend to find out more about that.

So basically, nothing is cast in concrete at this point.
 
Ah yes. The "public fact finding meeting".

Also known as the announcement that the politicians are now open for business and accepting bribes.

Private email or phone call, preferred. Any emails sent to their official government accounts will be responded to with the utmost in political correctness.

Anonymous campaign donations also appreciated.

LOL. Good luck.
 
Larry Ellison operates a jet out of SQL:


But, I'm sure that the advent of Surf Air has made turbine operations substantially more common than the used to be at SQL.
I spend time at that airport episodically, most recently about two weeks ago. While I see a constant stream of PC12s and the occasional King Air, I've never seen any jet, on the ramp, taxiing, or in the air. The runway really is a bit short for that.

Larry Ellison is about the worst example of an aviator you could possibly choose. He has a very long history of ****ing off neighbors with excessive noise very late at night. He tried to sue the county over noise abatement fines, and lost. He's the reason SQL has wacky noise abatement rules, and why SJC has a curfew.
 
Ah yes. The "public fact finding meeting".

Also known as the announcement that the politicians are now open for business and accepting bribes.

Private email or phone call, preferred. Any emails sent to their official government accounts will be responded to with the utmost in political correctness.

Anonymous campaign donations also appreciated.

LOL. Good luck.

What on earth could possibly satisfy you? How would you like the meeting to progress? A summary closure of the airport?

Accusations of criminal behavior generally require some evidence.
 
What on earth could possibly satisfy you? How would you like the meeting to progress? A summary closure of the airport?

Accusations of criminal behavior generally require some evidence.

I simply said that's how these things go. The donations don't have to be criminal at all.

When you place the power of deciding the fate of something into the hands of a committee, it doesn't matter how many people speak at the meetings in favor or against, all you have to do is sway a majority of a committee.

The meeting should have gone like this: All people in favor of the airport should have been prepped to say, "Chairperson, before I testify I would like to know how this got on the docket for community?"


When they don't answer, "It appears we are essentially holding a meeting for a community that didn't ask for it, for a perceived problem that lasts 100 seconds a day, of new noises in the sky. Was this public meeting brought at the whim of a minority of the community? I find it interesting that you have called out all of these people to waste our time this evening for a noise that lasts 100 seconds a day."

The supporters needed to put the elected on notice that there was no real problem to begin with and that they knew the council was already cow-towing to a wealthy minority.

Play to win. Playing their game is allowing the tail to wag the dog.

If political bribes don't work, and rational thought and logic prevail, I'm sure we could just tell AOPA PAC to disband and send the money to any anti aviation politician and it wouldn't matter.

They've got you all on the run and you're missing that they are calling meetings that only a minority of the community appears to want for a trivial problem. That should have been every pro-airport testifier's stand to start every testimonial.

Y'all need a PR person who knows how to make politicians believe their jobs are in jeopardy for calling meetings for no legitimate reason for a non-majority of the community. And a resonant position that the whole meeting was called to handle 20 overflights of 5 seconds of noise each, or only 100 seconds a day any of the whiners even hear the airplanes they've claimed are a problem big enough to be bothering city meetings with.

Because you're up against a numbers game. If there's 5 votes, it doesn't matter if you're 2000 strong or 2,000,000 strong. All the rich kids have to do is buy 3 people with favors or direct legal donations. That's WHY they made them call the meeting.

They have a winning strategy. Do you? Never allow a politician to engage you pretending to be fixing some problem without proving there's actually a problem first. And if they do anyway, ridicule the problem if it's obvious it's not one.

Anybody who can't handle 100 seconds a day of something probably isn't telling the truth and certainly isn't a normal member of any community if they think that deserves special treatment. Start there. Stop playing from behind.
 
We know how it got on the docket. You're asking all the wrong questions.

It got there because of several years of unanswered complaints. Any county resident can suggest items. County supervisors in California are not particularly powerful nor do they have particularly expensive campaigns. Your claims are therefore absurd. You have nothing useful to add about "how it works," especially since you seemed to have missed that the the result of the meeting was NOT favorable to the complainants.

And numbers do matter. A lot.

Maybe you should try working around California municipal and county government before telling those of us who have "how it works."
 
From a local Yahoo group:

For those who are interested, the video of the meeting is near the top
of this page:
http://sanmateo.siretechnologies.com/sirepub/meetresults.aspx

This agenda item starts around 57 minutes into the video, starting with
the staff presentation for about 15 minutes. The public comments start
around 1:13 and last well over 2 hours. The board's deliberation starts
around 3:38 and ends around 4:02.

Use the video link for 3/8/2016. (The YouTube link does not have any videos from 2016 yet.)
 
We know how it got on the docket. You're asking all the wrong questions.

It got there because of several years of unanswered complaints. Any county resident can suggest items. County supervisors in California are not particularly powerful nor do they have particularly expensive campaigns. Your claims are therefore absurd. You have nothing useful to add about "how it works," especially since you seemed to have missed that the the result of the meeting was NOT favorable to the complainants.

And numbers do matter. A lot.

Maybe you should try working around California municipal and county government before telling those of us who have "how it works."

Nothing I said was specific to California, nor need it be. The campaign donation comment was clearly just a comment to placate the whiner that said "buying" a politician needed to be inherently illegal. It doesn't. The existence of AOPA-PAC certainly proves that.

"Many years of unanswered complaints"? So what? See the article about the guy who made 6500 phone calls to his local airport? That's not a reason to hold a meeting about anything.

The only two 100% successful outcomes of this meeting were a) Not to hold it in the first place, b) Passage of a law saying no further discussion will be had on the topic.

Since neither happened, there was no "outcome" from the meeting. County governments do not hold jurisdiction over the sky, nor who can use a public use airport receiving Federal funding, so all they can do is babble in meetings until someday announcing they're closing the place.

Then they get to charge the local taxpayer for whatever FAA improvement money fines they incur.

No good at all comes from holding the meeting. Zero.

It only serves to continue the myth that the county has any more than one possible decision available to them if the airport received Federal funds. Does it? Meeting cancelled. Have a lovely evening at home watching TV.

Like you said, they have no power at all. Legitimizing their silly meeting by attending is a strategic mistake. Especially if, as you say, county level politicians magically have less power in California than anywhere else. Which I doubt.

Once you legitimized the meeting by attending, like I said, the first question should have been, " Why is this meeting being held at all?" Second question should have been, "What exactly is this council's allowed legal jurisdiction in this matter, and what specific actions could it take, legally?" (They usually don't know. They're often junior politicians or just utterly clueless about the law in general...) Etc.

Showing up and playing along is kinda like a scientist agreeing to a formal public debate on science vs religion. The agreement to even debate trashes the credibility of the scientist.
 
Nate, your strategy has failed repeatedly. You did study the issue, right?

The point of government is compromise. If you refuse all accommodation at all, even the simple stuff and the limited scope, you will turn this into a closure argument, which it is not. THINK. If you insist on 100% victory on everything, you will eventually run out of options.

Besides, the FAF can't really move. Nothing is going to change, but now the complainers feel they got listened to. Is that really so bad? Well, maybe Surf Air might use a visual approach in good weather. Why do you have a problem with that?

It is a HUGE mistake to turn this into a bigger argument than it is.

And it is entirely legitimate to use local government to mediate an agreement between parties. Do you REALLY want to move that to the courts? Then, the public has much less to say.
 
I just heard a much buzzier than normal airplane, which sounded like it was flying the Palo Alto GPS approach over my neighborhood in Mountain View. I'll have to see if I can find out if it was a Pilatus. (It's not something I would want to complain about. I'm just interested in getting an idea of what has the Atherton folks so concerned.)
 
It is a HUGE mistake to turn this into a bigger argument than it is.

And it is entirely legitimate to use local government to mediate an agreement between parties. Do you REALLY want to move that to the courts? Then, the public has much less to say.

My strategy wasn't to turn it into a larger argument. It was to stop the "process" cold.

Court would be great. FAA shows up: "Our jurisdiction, pound sand homeowner. You also accepted our money, so unless you want to pay that back now, bye." One of the few times FAA mega-hubris is useful. As an agency, they love defending their turf.

Enjoy playing paddy cake with the locals. It never ever leads to anything good. Find me one example where it has.
 
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