brien23
Cleared for Takeoff
Legal or not Private pilot teaching a unlicensed person friend or family to fly a a aircraft.
Private Pilot letting a unlicensed person fly
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Anyone can teach anyone to fly a plane...........
You just cannot sign off in any log book...
ChrisK
En-Route
I wouldn't ever, ever refer to that as "instruction". Would I let a buddy grab the yoke or try the pedals out? Sure. Might even do more than that as he / she got more experienced. If they want to learn to fly, though, they would probably start out with a big fat "0" in their log book.
brien23
Cleared for Takeoff
How about the commercial jet flight that the pilot let his 15 year old son fly the jet while the first officer went to the bathroom. Does that count.
Part 121 and 135 don't allow anyone who is not trained to manipulate the controls (probably the same for 125).
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
I gave my 12YO daughter plenty of instruction on the way to and from Oshkosh several times. She learned how to nav, proper altitudes, heading mgmt, descent profiles, inst scan, engine mgmt, etc. No prob, I let her hand fly plenty.
Nothing logged, but plenty of instruction.
Nothing logged, but plenty of instruction.
VA Aviator
Pre-takeoff checklist
You can let a passenger fly the entire flight without even touching the controls. You won't find a regulation or LOI to the contrary. The reality is that you are responsible, and if there is any sort of mishap it will be on you, with careless/reckless thrown in if the situation dictates.
You can impart as much knowledge as you like - but it's just that... knowledge. No more, no less. A person that does not hold a pilot certificate may only log dual instruction received from an authorized instructor. Again, you won't find anything that tells you that you are not permitted to impart aviation knowledge amongst non pilots.
The bottom line here is that you can "teach" and let people fly as much as you are comfortable with, as there is nothing that says you can not. But at the end of the day, you are responsible for anything that happens and the person you "taught" has nothing that counts toward the aeronautical experience for a pilot certificate.
You can impart as much knowledge as you like - but it's just that... knowledge. No more, no less. A person that does not hold a pilot certificate may only log dual instruction received from an authorized instructor. Again, you won't find anything that tells you that you are not permitted to impart aviation knowledge amongst non pilots.
The bottom line here is that you can "teach" and let people fly as much as you are comfortable with, as there is nothing that says you can not. But at the end of the day, you are responsible for anything that happens and the person you "taught" has nothing that counts toward the aeronautical experience for a pilot certificate.
Palmpilot
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I believe the incident he referred to happened in Russian air space, on a Russian airliner, so Russian regulations would apply. Hopefully they have similar restrictions.
jpower
Cleared for Takeoff
What if a licensed pilot flies PIC in the right seat but a post-solo student sits in the left seat and does all the flying? Are there limitations on where the PIC can sit?
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
No.
But someone will be along shortly to begin dissecting the regulations and also come up with "but if it was a single control Bonanza" nonsense.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
You can't let them put a hood / foggles on if you don't have a medical (obviously, only an issue in an LSA).
Some POH state that the left seat has to be occupied by 'a pilot'. Can be a student pilot but has to be someone who could actuate the fuel selector or alternate static source, e.g. not a small child.
MAKG1
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MAKG
Only if the PIC was a private pilot....
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
With very few exceptions, there doesn't have to be anyone in the left seat. Or, you can put your passenger over there. But, if you are PIC, you would want to be comfortable flying from the right side no matter who is or is not on the left- some people seem to have an issue with that.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
And the logging regulation referred to above is 61.51(h)(2), while "authorized instructor" is defined in 61.1(b) as someone who, among other things, has an instructor certificate or, for certain purposes, is authorized by the FAA Administrator.
alfadog
Final Approach
Might violate club rules, FBO policy, and/or insurance provision. Not FAR but can sure get you in some hurt. Eg., in my club, PIC must sit left seat.
alfadog
Final Approach
You cannot let an "unlicensed person" fly with you period if you cannot be legal PIC.
Well, I would hope at least within reach of the controls.
That said; I've plenty of time at the controls with only and A&P/IA ticket and even been allowed a few landings. Some of those hours were left seat because the guy I was with wanted to get used to flying right because he once was flying as safety pilot and the other dude ceded control of the plane about fifty feet after takeoff.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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You don't need a medical to be legal PIC. You do need a medical to let an "unlicensed person" put a hood on.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
I have to assume that your club doesn't have a Cub or a Champ or...
SixPapaCharlie
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I let my wife fly a little more and more each time. I know the odds of me becoming incapacitated are low but if it happens, she has to be able to use the radio, understand how to do some things including control the aircraft so she and my kids can have the best shot at making it.
I let her takeoff for the first time today (I had my hand on the yoke the whole time). She did great.
I let her takeoff for the first time today (I had my hand on the yoke the whole time). She did great.
alfadog
Final Approach
I know you are referring to LSA but I am not sure I follow you. If I can legally be PIC then I can let the "unlicensed person" fly blindfolded. I do not see what having a medical has to do with it other than you need the medical to act as PIC in non-LSA.
alfadog
Final Approach
That is correct. And if they did, they would still probably have a rule about where the PIC must sit.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
That's what the rules say.
You can be the PIC all day long. You can have some other person fly from either seat (front or back), no problem. The other person could even be totally blind and it's all good. But - if said other person (blind or not) puts on a hood, you are also a safety pilot because a view limiting device is in use which requires a PP and a medical. If that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I probably explained it correctly.
This has been beaten to death on a couple other threads already... Sorry I brought it up - really isn't relevant to the question at hand.
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Palmpilot
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Maybe, but when an unlicensed person (or even a licensed one) is operating the aircraft in simulated instrument flight in an LSA, not necessarily. The reason is that you can be legal to be PIC without a medical certificate in an LSA, but you cannot be a safety pilot without a medical certificate. The LSA exception to the medical certificate requirement in 61.3(c)(2)(v) only applies when you are exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate, not when you are exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate, and per 91.109(c), being a safety pilot is a privilege of a private pilot certificate or above.
61.3(c)(2) excerpt [emphasis added]:
(c) Medical certificate. (1) A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the FAA, that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft. Paragraph (c)(2) of this section provides certain exceptions to the requirement to hold a medical certificate.
(2) A person is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section if that person—
...(v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license...
(2) A person is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section if that person—
...(v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license...
___________________________
91.109 excerpt [emphasis added]:
(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown...
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown...
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Your explanation is much more concise than mine (and probably clearer)!
kenjr
Line Up and Wait
I own my own plane...but every time I fly with someone in the front seat, I let them 'fly'. Now, that basically means, "OK, keep this needle right here..." kinda stuff. I have yet to fly with another pilot but even then I think unless it's a long flight the PIC is the one doing radios, checklists, etc... unless he asks for help. In my case, I'm not IFR and can't see too many situations where I'd need more help from another pilot with the exception of traffic watching, map reading, a little navigation, etc...
poadeleted20
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Sometimes. I've seen insurance policies requiring the PIC to occupy the left seat (other than a CFI meeting policy requirements giving training to the insured pilot). I've also seen flying club rules to the same effect (only club-approved instructors acting as PIC from the right seat). I've even seen an AFM requiring the left seat to be occupied by a qualified pilot. However, absent those unusual requirements, there is no FAA rule prohibiting it. Of course, as mentioned above, if anything bad happens while a non-pilot is in the left seat, you can expect considerable FAA inquisition as to the wisdom of having done this.
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That's a stupid rule. In most sinles and light twins they can be flown from either seat easily. Heck I've been flying solo from thr right lately.
Sure, Since my kids learned how to hold a heading and altitude, I hardly ever use the Autopilot anymore....
alfadog
Final Approach
Oh, I get you now. Interesting quirk though I am not sure it would apply to a person that does not have so much as a student cert, esp. if the PIC is not CFI. My thought is that the "un..." is never legally flying the airplane under any circumstances; it is simply as if you had your hands off the controls for that period and the other seat was empty. IMHO.
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Dr. O
Pattern Altitude
I let a blind person manipulate the controls (biggest smile you ever saw). I gave him verbal instructions when he began drifting into the death spiral (flying by the seat of his pants)
Was I instructing?
Of course.
Was it legal?
Of course.
Did it mean he had acquired flight time under the FAA regs?
Of course not.
He still brings it up 30 years later, with the same smile.
Was I instructing?
Of course.
Was it legal?
Of course.
Did it mean he had acquired flight time under the FAA regs?
Of course not.
He still brings it up 30 years later, with the same smile.
JHW
En-Route
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Except in that case you aren't a safety pilot - because it's not simulated instrument flight. Not going in the logbook as such, it's not happening. Just like the "giving instruction" premise of the thread. You're still the only pilot on board, no medical required as Sport Pilot. As a safety pilot, you're are actually a "backup" pilot. Since the non-pilot isn't a pilot, who are you backing up? Exactly.
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Which aircraft? I'm just wondering, because if that's the case, it appears you could never get traditional instruction in those planes.
poadeleted20
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Really? Have you thought that through where two-crew aircraft are involved?
JeffDG
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not all operations, but the C-182T - GFC700 manual includes a limitation:
2. A pilot, with the seat belt fastened, must occupy the left pilot’s seat during all autopilot operations.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Interesting, so if I buy one of these prior to getting my private I cannot engage the autopilot while getting instruction. Thanks, lawyers.