Presidential protection

Pinecone said:
The Red Cross gets paid by FEMA for all their relief efforts and the things they hand out if it is a Federally declared disaster.
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Even better, my understanding is that they get paid for the things that are given to them as donations. How they're allowed to collect money from the government and still be a non-profit is beyond my comprehension.
 
I know of one case where they kept excess items given by the Fed Gov, then later sold those items and kept the money.
 
Mikey B said:
Would prefer to keep this non-political, but ... yeah, I know, it's POA.

I live in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, and during Presidential visits, like this weekend, the sky is noticeably noisier (not that I mind!). Makes me curious though, what exactly are those guys doing up there? Flying a circular pattern until and unless a threat (usually a clueless Cessna pilot) shows up on radar? Switching out when it's time to refuel? (Can't imagine a need for aerial refueling when Dover AFB is minutes away.)
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Yes they re up there wasting their time because the secret service acts with near impunity when tasking mil assets for POTUS protection.

it is WAAAAY faster to run over to the tanker to get some gas than going into Dover where they don’t have any ground personnel trained to dearm fighters with live weapons or to hot pit refuel fighters. Having a tanker up there saves from having other fighters there to cover while the first two land somewhere to refuel. If you are on the tanker you can still get to a “threat” within the response time required by the secret service.

The “need” to have them up there is - unfortunately - decided by the secret service who know the square root of foxtrot alpha about air warfare. They just say “yeah, we want em“ and the dominos fall.

TCABM said:
They are making the sound of freedom; alternatively, burning JP8 at tax payer expense.
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Indeed. And who else would pay for it?
Baked Potato said:
USAF pilots need hours to maintain proficiency somehow, right? What better way than to protect our nation's most treasured and collectively beloved assets?
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As someone else stated, these sorties are a COMPLETE waste of time for fighters, absolutely zero training and at the very best nothing bad happens and your relief shows up on time.

sorry, this is a soapbox I can’t stay off of after wasting so much of my time and flying hours drilling holes in the sky.
 
EvilEagle said:
The “need” to have them up there is - unfortunately - decided by the secret service who know the square root of foxtrot alpha about air warfare. They just say “yeah, we want em“ and the dominos fall.
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Since the TFRs are essentially just a filtering mechanism for USSS (like only letting passengers past airport security), I assume their reasoning is that without fighters to intercept strays in a timely manner, people ignore the TFRs and they lose their effectiveness or the wind up moving the VIP off the X for no reason much more frequently.
 
Lindberg said:
Since the TFRs are essentially just a filtering mechanism for USSS (like only letting passengers past airport security), I assume their reasoning is that without fighters to intercept strays in a timely manner, people ignore the TFRs and they lose their effectiveness or the wind up moving the VIP off the X for no reason much more frequently.
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I have stood within 30 feet or so of the leaders of UAE, Oman, Bahrain and Romania (not all at the same time of course) without any security checking me at all. The President is replaceable (that’s why we have a VP). I think it’s time to end the 60-mile diameter bubble.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have stood within 30 feet or so of the leaders of UAE, Oman, Bahrain and Romania (not all at the same time of course) without any security checking me at all. The President is replaceable (that’s why we have a VP). I think it’s time to end the 60-mile diameter bubble.
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I can't name any of those people. I doubt many can. They're not remotely comparable to the president of the United States. I've stood next to mayors and governors of large US cities and states; the folks you refer to are much more like them.

Of course the president is replaceable; we replace him every 4-8 years. But that misses the point.
 
Lindberg said:
I can't name any of those people. I doubt many can. They're not remotely comparable to the president of the United States. I've stood next to mayors and governors of large US cities and states; the folks you refer to are much more like them.

Of course the president is replaceable; we replace him every 4-8 years. But that misses the point.
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How many world leaders can you name? I would guess most people can name less than 10. We still put too much emphasis on the President. He is not a King, rather an elected public servant.
 
DesertNomad said:
How many world leaders can you name? I would guess most people can name less than 10.
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I'd bet it's even fewer than that, and yet they can all name POTUS. That's the point. He's an elected official. THE elected official. He's a symbol of our democracy. He's a target because of the meaning an attack on him would convey, and that's precisely why we protect him.
 
The definition of "natural born" as it relates to the presidency has never been put to a court test. However, the general sense of various court decisions with respect to other things is that there are really only two types of citizenship: natural born (i.e., given at birth either because you were born on US soil or a parent who was a US citizen) and naturalized (those who got US citizenship after birth by that process).
 
frfly172 said:
I was hoping to fly south from New England this Sunday the Tfr sure puts a dent in a leisurely vfr flight. One of my overnights is usually Oceancity Maryland.
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I remember sitting at MVY waiting while a succession if C130s left with the Clinton's support material after they had vacationed in the Vineyard and thinking how overblown the US office of the presidency had become. I guess whatever support anyone on the team requests they get and there's no challenge to the cost. No wonder there is such a disconnect from the rest of us.
 
LAJHeli said:
I remember sitting at MVY waiting while a succession if C130s left with the Clinton's support material after they had vacationed in the Vineyard and thinking how overblown the US office of the presidency had become. I guess whatever support anyone on the team requests they get and there's no challenge to the cost. No wonder there is such a disconnect from the rest of us.
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It has become imperial presidency with rituals so ridiculous that would put Roman emperors to shame…
 
3393RP said:
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.

There aren't any rogue fighters armed with heat seeking or other types of air to air weapons roaming the skies, and the same goes for ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries. I'm sure the Yeah-But analysts will beg to differ, but really?
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What makes you believe the propose of TFRs are to protect AF1? Basically a presidential TFR is nothing more than temporary prohibited airspace around the president.
 
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Lindberg said:
I'd bet it's even fewer than that, and yet they can all name POTUS. That's the point. He's an elected official. THE elected official. He's a symbol of our democracy. He's a target because of the meaning an attack on him would convey, and that's precisely why we protect him.
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Everyone in Oman knows who the Sultan is. He is a symbol of the country, the Ruler, yet they let me stand a very short distance away with no security check of me.

This was in about 1994 when Qaboos bin Said Al Said was Sultan.
 
EvilEagle said:
it is WAAAAY faster to run over to the tanker to get some gas than going into Dover where they don’t have any ground personnel trained to dearm fighters with live weapons or to hot pit refuel fighters. Having a tanker up there saves from having other fighters there to cover while the first two land somewhere to refuel. If you are on the tanker you can still get to a “threat” within the response time required by the secret service.
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Figher units train for FOL operations. They put a ground crew needed to dearm and turn aircraft where they need them.

Yes, if on the tanker, they can still in the air for response.
 
DesertNomad said:
Everyone in Oman knows who the Sultan is. He is a symbol of the country, the Ruler, yet they let me stand a very short distance away with no security check of me.

This was in about 1994 when Qaboos bin Said Al Said was Sultan.
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I'll bet most of them also know who POTUS is. Yet no one here knows who the Sultan is. Everyone in France knows who their prime minister is. No one here or in Oman does. But the French all know Biden. Everyone in Sweden knows who their president is. No one here or in Oman or France does. But they all know POTUS.....
 
Lindberg said:
I'll bet most of them also know who POTUS is. Yet no one here knows who the Sultan is. Everyone in France knows who their prime minister is. No one here or in Oman does. But the French all know Biden. Everyone in Sweden knows who their president is. No one here or in Oman or France does. But they all know POTUS.....
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Does current POTUS know who he is ? I am not so sure .. at least on some days.
 
Lindberg said:
I'll bet most of them also know who POTUS is. Yet no one here knows who the Sultan is. Everyone in France knows who their prime minister is. No one here or in Oman does. But the French all know Biden. Everyone in Sweden knows who their president is. No one here or in Oman or France does. But they all know POTUS.....
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I don't think most here know who the Prime Minister of France is, but I would think (hope) that most know who the President of France is (Emmanuel Macron). I would think that Americans should know the leaders of Canada, Mexico, UK, France, Germany, Israel, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and perhaps a few others (certainly Ukraine and Iran in the current climate).

Everyone in the GCC countries know who the rulers of the various Gulf countries are, but I would not expect Americans to know except for Saudi Arabia which is always in the news and prominent in the world economy because of oil.
 
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Pinecone said:
Figher units train for FOL operations. They put a ground crew needed to dearm and turn aircraft where they need them.

Yes, if on the tanker, they can still in the air for response.
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I know I’m the retired guy now but when I was the FS/CC less than 4 years ago, we NEVER put FOL or ground crew out people at a non-tactical base like Dover. it just doesn’t make sense. Barnes could turn us if we really needed to land, but I don’t think the OP understands the extra footprint required to “just land”.
 
Albany Tom said:
Even better, my understanding is that they get paid for the things that are given to them as donations. How they're allowed to collect money from the government and still be a non-profit is beyond my comprehension.
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Because nothing precludes that? There's a big misconception on the what "non-profit" means. 501(c)(3) Charities (of which the Red Cross is) has specific rules as to what they can take in versus what/how they pay out. Nothing says they can't charge for services.
 
flyingron said:
Because nothing precludes that? There's a big misconception on the what "non-profit" means. 501(c)(3) Charities (of which the Red Cross is) has specific rules as to what they can take in versus what/how they pay out. Nothing says they can't charge for services.
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That makes perfect sense. Charitable as defined by the IRS, not charitable as defined by the English language.

"There's no such thing as good money or bad money. There's just money." Believe that Lucky Luciano, but it could apply to those other two groups, too.
 
We have had our fair share of POTUS TFRs' in the Los Angeles area, and a friend of mine at N57 tells me that life is a little hard when Biden heads home to Wilmington. But I will say it is kind of cool to see AF1 and Marine 1 fluttering about. Sitting on the beach in Ventucky we could catch Reagan heading up the coast from Pt Mugu to his ranch in Santa Barbara, and I have gotten caught in many a traffic jam when Obama would come to town... Politics aside, it is pretty impressive when you see it.

Even when they do something at the Regan Library (recent debate), KCMA loads up with all kinds of "beep-you money" toys, and black limos, etc...... Not a TFR, but nonetheless.

But the best was reading about this... I wonder what the blood test readings were on this guy.

www.flyingmag.com

Cessna 182 Carrying Marijuana Intercepted in Obama Airspace - FLYING Magazine

A Cessna 182 allegedly carrying approximately 40 pounds of marijuana was intercepted by F-16s on Thursday after busting restricted airspace shared by Marine One. According to the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the incident occurred around 12:30 p.m. local time over Los...
www.flyingmag.com www.flyingmag.com
 
Clip4 said:
What makes you believe the propose of TFRs are to protect AF1? Basically a presidential TFR is nothing more than temporary prohibited airspace around the president.
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Because I can make the connection between "prohibited airspace around the president" and threats to Air Force 1. It wasn't hard to do.
 
Ventucky Red said:
We have had our fair share of POTUS TFRs' in the Los Angeles area, and a friend of mine at N57 tells me that life is a little hard when Biden heads home to Wilmington. But I will say it is kind of cool to see AF1 and Marine 1 fluttering about. Sitting on the beach in Ventucky we could catch Reagan heading up the coast from Pt Mugu to his ranch in Santa Barbara, and I have gotten caught in many a traffic jam when Obama would come to town... Politics aside, it is pretty impressive when you see it.

Even when they do something at the Regan Library (recent debate), KCMA loads up with all kinds of "beep-you money" toys, and black limos, etc...... Not a TFR, but nonetheless.

But the best was reading about this... I wonder what the blood test readings were on this guy.

www.flyingmag.com

Cessna 182 Carrying Marijuana Intercepted in Obama Airspace - FLYING Magazine

A Cessna 182 allegedly carrying approximately 40 pounds of marijuana was intercepted by F-16s on Thursday after busting restricted airspace shared by Marine One. According to the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the incident occurred around 12:30 p.m. local time over Los...
www.flyingmag.com www.flyingmag.com
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Re the story, I feel bad for the guy. He was probably just trying to bring them a birthday present.
 
I used to fly out of one of the DC-3, even before 9/11 we were hit with frequent restrictions at times.

George Washington has been dead for over 200 years and there's still a P area over his house. It was smack dab in the way of me getting from IAD to VKX.
 
3393RP said:
Because I can make the connection between "prohibited airspace around the president" and threats to Air Force 1. It wasn't hard to do.
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If you want to look closely at the current TFR you will discover it is not centered on an airport. It is centered on the Biden residence. So unless AF1 is parked in his front yard…..
 
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Every president's non-DC residence has had a TFR or P area over it. We only really escaped too much influence with Obama and Trump because they tended to hang out in the middle of class B airspace when not in DC.

I remember one day when there was a TFR right in the middle of the DC class B near IAD. The lat/long worked out to be the insersection of Sterling Blvd and Route 28. Turns out W was making an appearance at a business next door to my office. The SS had us move all our cars to the other side of the building. We did get to watch the limo arrive and W get out through our office windows.
 
flyingron said:
Every president's non-DC residence has had a TFR or P area over it. We only really escaped too much influence with Obama and Trump because they tended to hang out in the middle of class B airspace when not in DC.
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And for this reason, I will never vote for a candidate from Northern Nevada.
 
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