Presidential protection

Mikey B

Mikey B

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
144
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Delaware/Arizona
Display Name
Display name:
Mike
Would prefer to keep this non-political, but ... yeah, I know, it's POA.

I live in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, and during Presidential visits, like this weekend, the sky is noticeably noisier (not that I mind!). Makes me curious though, what exactly are those guys doing up there? Flying a circular pattern until and unless a threat (usually a clueless Cessna pilot) shows up on radar? Switching out when it's time to refuel? (Can't imagine a need for aerial refueling when Dover AFB is minutes away.)
 
I was hoping to fly south from New England this Sunday the Tfr sure puts a dent in a leisurely vfr flight. One of my overnights is usually Oceancity Maryland.
 
They might be especially cautious now with certain world events happening. Not sure if that activity is more than what's typical.

Last month I heard USAF hail someone on guard who busted a TFR around Dupont VORTAC. Was interesting to hear them call the guy out a couple of times, though he never responded (at least that I could hear)
 
They are making the sound of freedom; alternatively, burning JP8 at tax payer expense.
 
I suspect the Rehoboth TFR may be having little impact on GA traffic since the center ring doesn't overlap with any public airports. If you are located on the ground within the inner ring, things will get quiet above you.

During President Trump's TFRs in central NJ my experience was the opposite of yours initially. The sky was quiet and ATC frequencies were empty. But after a few instances pilots got comfortable flying in the annular 30 mile ring and flight activity seemed about normal. Jet overwatch was being done at altitudes well above hearing except when there was an intercept. Then it got very loud in that vicinity. Eventually intercepts were shifted at least partially to Coast Guard helicopters based, I think, at Solberg Airport. They were much quieter.
 
Its pretty easy to get around the TFR outter ring. A VFR flight following super secret squirrel squawk code and you’re good. The only stickler is Dover won’t turn you south to the KOXB airport, instead they hand you off to Patuxent approach to do the deed.

Living here in ocean city MD and haven’t heard any military intercepts yet….. plenty of time for some nitwit to bust the TFR before sleepy joe goes back to DC.
 
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.

There aren't any rogue fighters armed with heat seeking or other types of air to air weapons roaming the skies, and the same goes for ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries. I'm sure the Yeah-But analysts will beg to differ, but really?
 
I was a unit commander of a maintenance company and had 21 AH-64s on my ramp. Clinton and AF-1 were due to arrive. Secret Service told me (did not ask) I had to turn every aircraft so the 30mm cannon was pointing away from the proposed parking area. I politely declined and left, as they had already required all my mechanics to leave the area. Maybe the stupidity to anyone having any common sense and understanding the threat was zero…saved me in the end. The fire extinguishers on the ramp were probably more of a hazard. I was not dealing with the best and brightest.
 
3393RP said:
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.

There aren't any rogue fighters armed with heat seeking or other types of air to air weapons roaming the skies, and the same goes for ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries. I'm sure the Yeah-But analysts will beg to differ, but really?
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Security theater...
 
3393RP said:
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.

There aren't any rogue fighters armed with heat seeking or other types of air to air weapons roaming the skies, and the same goes for ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries. I'm sure the Yeah-But analysts will beg to differ, but really?
Click to expand...
A lot of what they do to protect the President seems silly to me, but I guess they're doing a good job. I got stuck at Austin Bergstram one day (driving) when Trump came in. I tried to get out, but waited about five minutes too long. The police officer I was talking to told me to sit back and enjoy the show! They block every single driveway on the path and it was truly impressive... but overkill.

The non-political / political comment... I've been in cities all over the US when Presidents visited. It's funny how mad people get when it's a President from the other party, but it's not bad when it's one from their party! "Why is he even here anyway? Spending taxpayer dollars to fly in for a fundraiser." or "It sure is awesome to see AF1. Glad he's here raising money for his campaign."
 
ateamer said:
All I know is I hope the next president hails from Attu Island and takes all of his vacations back home.
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Does the constitutional requirement for the president to be a natural born US citizen, include territories?
 
MRC01 said:
Does the constitutional requirement for the president to be a natural born US citizen, include territories?
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Sure, why not? People born in Puerto Rico are automatically US citizens, for example.

Also, isn't Attu island in AK?
(By the way, as an East Coast US resident I also support the next president being from an island far away)
 
MRC01 said:
Does the constitutional requirement for the president to be a natural born US citizen, include territories?
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John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a US Territory and he was considered a natural born citizen.
 
jayhawk74 said:
John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a US Territory and he was considered a natural born citizen.
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If your parents are US citizens, aren't you a natural born citizen regardless of where you where born?
 
Lowflynjack said:
A lot of what they do to protect the President seems silly to me, but I guess they're doing a good job. I got stuck at Austin Bergstram one day (driving) when Trump came in. I tried to get out, but waited about five minutes too long. The police officer I was talking to told me to sit back and enjoy the show! They block every single driveway on the path and it was truly impressive... but overkill.

The non-political / political comment... I've been in cities all over the US when Presidents visited. It's funny how mad people get when it's a President from the other party, but it's not bad when it's one from their party! "Why is he even here anyway? Spending taxpayer dollars to fly in for a fundraiser." or "It sure is awesome to see AF1. Glad he's here raising money for his campaign."
Click to expand...

I won't get into the political side, but you are correct at the amount of effort that goes into the Presidential protection during a visit. They weld manhole covers shut and many other preemptive tactics. The sheer amount of firepower that is in the motorcade, including vehicle mounted machine guns and their own tactical team. It is impressive.

The only time I was particularly upset at a Presidential trip, and he was from "my" party, was in the aftermath of a major hurricane that hit my hometown. At the time we were completely isolated, no power, phones, etc. We broke our chainsaw trying to clean up, but had heard a certain repair place was open to help people out. We tried to get there to get a part, but found stopped traffic on the two lane country highway. We were near a turnoff for a road I knew cut through past the airport, so decided to go that way. We were soon stopped by a roadblock of several police cars. I ask the officers what gives, why is everything blocked off? He said just wait a minute and you will see. Soon an entire flotilla of Blackhawks, CH-46s, the Sheriff's OH-6, and three "Marine 1" helicopters blasted overhead leaving the airport. The President came into town for the required "See the devastation" field trip.

I get politically they have to make the trip, otherwise their naysayers and the media will say they don't care. Honestly it just pulls precious resources from helping those in need to support the President, and blocks those dealing with the disaster from getting the real help they need. The President could do as much or more from their office rather than spending a day on site.

In the world of firefighting we say the Incident Commander needs to stay "out of the circle". In other words they need to stand back and see the big picture, to manage the incident and not be involved in the actual operations.
 
What midwestpa24 said. What it really says when a politician tours a disaster is that they care so much about the victims that they’re happy to delay rescue and recovery by a day or more in order to get a photo opportunity.
 
3393RP said:
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.

There aren't any rogue fighters armed with heat seeking or other types of air to air weapons roaming the skies, and the same goes for ground based anti-aircraft missile batteries. I'm sure the Yeah-But analysts will beg to differ, but really?
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I don't think VIP TFR's have anything to do with threats to AF1 in flight.
 
Did the flight following outer ring .was an easy transition,the controllers are very helpful.
 
ateamer said:
What midwestpa24 said. What it really says when a politician tours a disaster is that they care so much about the victims that they’re happy to delay rescue and recovery by a day or more in order to get a photo opportunity.
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I can't even really blame the politicians on this one though, its the media and talking heads. If said politician doesn't visit the disaster area, they are crucified. As if being there personally actually helps.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I won't get into the political side, but you are correct at the amount of effort that goes into the Presidential protection during a visit. They weld manhole covers shut and many other preemptive tactics. The sheer amount of firepower that is in the motorcade, including vehicle mounted machine guns and their own tactical team. It is impressive.

The only time I was particularly upset at a Presidential trip, and he was from "my" party, was in the aftermath of a major hurricane that hit my hometown. At the time we were completely isolated, no power, phones, etc. We broke our chainsaw trying to clean up, but had heard a certain repair place was open to help people out. We tried to get there to get a part, but found stopped traffic on the two lane country highway. We were near a turnoff for a road I knew cut through past the airport, so decided to go that way. We were soon stopped by a roadblock of several police cars. I ask the officers what gives, why is everything blocked off? He said just wait a minute and you will see. Soon an entire flotilla of Blackhawks, CH-46s, the Sheriff's OH-6, and three "Marine 1" helicopters blasted overhead leaving the airport. The President came into town for the required "See the devastation" field trip.

I get politically they have to make the trip, otherwise their naysayers and the media will say they don't care. Honestly it just pulls precious resources from helping those in need to support the President, and blocks those dealing with the disaster from getting the real help they need. The President could do as much or more from their office rather than spending a day on site.

In the world of firefighting we say the Incident Commander needs to stay "out of the circle". In other words they need to stand back and see the big picture, to manage the incident and not be involved in the actual operations.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard Lyndon Johnson started that. I’ve thought one of them should say in their condolences press release speech they will not be going there and give the reason, that it interferes with recovery efforts. Then say I am directing that the cost of a trip will be added to any relief funding authorized. Or go to the Red Cross etc. That would end it. Any prez after that who decided he just needed to go there and get his photo ops would be vilified.
 
MRC01 said:
Does the constitutional requirement for the president to be a natural born US citizen, include territories?
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Natural born does not mean born IN the USA, but to born as a US Citizen (US citizen parents).
 
luvflyin said:
... I’ve thought one of them should say in their condolences press release speech they will not be going there and give the reason, that it interferes with recovery efforts. Then say I am directing that the cost of a trip will be added to any relief funding authorized. Or go to the Red Cross etc. That would end it. Any prez after that who decided he just needed to go there and get his photo ops would be vilified.
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In a rational world, I agree. In this world, I'm not so sure but one can hope.
 
luvflyin said:
I’ve heard Lyndon Johnson started that. I’ve thought one of them should say in their condolences press release speech they will not be going there and give the reason, that it interferes with recovery efforts. Then say I am directing that the cost of a trip will be added to any relief funding authorized. Or go to the Red Cross etc. That would end it. Any prez after that who decided he just needed to go there and get his photo ops would be vilified.
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Given my experience living in a disaster area, I would 100% agree. Something tells me it wouldn't work in the real world. The opponents of that President would still try to make something out of it, regardless of which party.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Given my experience living in a disaster area, I would 100% agree. Something tells me it wouldn't work in the real world. The opponents of that President would still try to make something out of it, regardless of which party.
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Opponents have a long long history of making up lies, so it really doesn’t matter they do
 
3393RP said:
This is an apolitical comment.

The presidential TFRs are a ridiculous waste of military assets, and the disruption to aviation is nonsense. The credible chances of an airborne threat to AF1 are zero. The same odds apply for anything land based.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm just a simpleton from west Texas, but it would seem that the only time a TFR ought to be in place is when AF1 is actually in motion especially takeoff and landing which would be easy to accomplish by not allowing traffic into the Class B (like usual:p) until they've departed... otherwise, a few secret service guys with a couple of StingerII's while on the ground ought to be over kill for protection ....
 
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