Pres. TFR finally got me.

teejayevans said:
He has a fighter (F-15s?) escort, I'm sure if you came anywhere close, they would force you to deviate.
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Actually no "escort" while under normal operations of AF1 in the lower 48. They are in the air, but keep a marginal distance out of view...its all about perception!...and this is true for ALL recent presidents.
 
Zeldman said:
One time the VP decided to drop into Albuquerque to support some unknown democrat. Sudden unannounced TFR with no prior notice.
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Unannounced? Really? If that's true, somebody in the Secret Service or FAA messed up in a big way.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Does his TFR move while he is enroute?
I assume not. But how do they protect the airspace around his aircraft when he's flying?

maybe protect is the wrong word. I guess how did they notify other aircraft to stay clear of him while they are in flight? Or is it not a concern?
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Class A airspace. Everyone is on clearances that guarantee separation.
 
Yet another reason we love living in Texas, versus Iowa.

Iowa was a hotbed of political hacks every fourth year, making GA flying extremely difficult. Here in Texas, Obama rarely dares to tread, and only "up North" for gala fund-raisers.

We still check with flight service, mostly out of habit. In Iowa, we didn't shoot the pattern without calling them!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Makes sense. Does he still get the 30 mi or is it just the same as other aircraft?
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AF 1 gets the same separation as other aircraft. Only difference in how they're handled is that they 1) get priority 2) their destination isn't relayed for their departure clearance 3) an unrestricted climb to 9,000 is provided to the extent possible and 4) merging target procedures regardless of altitude.

Real world operating practices are far less dramatic than the rumors that pilots think.
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
Maybe people on here can answer me... if he's done so poorly, why is he still in office?

It seems that everyone likes to complain, but no one wants to act.

And no, I don't support him.
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Because he got elected twice. :sad:

What kinds of "action" do you suggest we as citizens take? Lawful actions to remove him from office must originate in the House of Representatives or the Supreme Court, not with public outcry.

Or are you suggesting unlawful means...? :eek:
 
PPC1052 said:
Why would that be? The TFR gives away their destination.
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I agree for continental U.S. but POTUS has shown up unannounced in OIF / OEF. Most applications, not mentioning the destination doesn't apply but that's what the controllers have to go by.

I know route is a big issue. Just ask the civilian Japanese controller who posted AF1's flight plan a few years ago. I imagine he didn't get the raise he wanted. :(
 
bullwinkle said:
Because he got elected twice. :sad:

What kinds of "action" do you suggest we as citizens take? Lawful actions to remove him from office must originate in the House of Representatives or the Supreme Court, not with public outcry.

Or are you suggesting unlawful means...? :eek:
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The Supreme Court has no authority to remove the President of the United States from office.

POTUS could shoot someone on the South Lawn at high noon, and no court could remove him from his office. That power is given exclusively to the Senate, after conducting a trial based on articles of impeachment presented by the House of Representatives.
 
The only way to remove a president is thru impeachment, which begins in the House and goes to trial in the Senate. SCOTUS has no role in that process.

But, the first thing that must be done is to fire all the Democrats in congress and the Senate. And replace them with Tea Party or conservative independent members.

Once that gets done, the rest follows.
 
CTLSi said:
The only way to remove a president is thru impeachment, which begins in the House and goes to trial in the Senate. SCOTUS has no role in that process.

But, the first thing that must be done is to fire all the Democrats in congress and the Senate. And replace them with Tea Party or conservative independent members.

Once that gets done, the rest follows.
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Bwahahaha! OMG, yeah...that's what we should do! Bwahahahaha....

Is that some sort of joke in honor of the passing of Robin? Hoh boy, tea party in control! Ha, that's some funny stuff right there...
 
NoHeat said:
Unannounced? Really? If that's true, somebody in the Secret Service or FAA messed up in a big way.
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FAA, or more accurately, ATC just did what they were told by the secret service.

Unannounced, really. Big deal in the news. "VP surprises unknown democrat at rally, enjoys enchilladas at taxpayer expense." This was in New Mexico, the dems didn't even invite Bill Richardson. The article also stated how big of a cluster smuck it was for the FAA, ATC and flights going into and out of ABQ. The article also talked about all the airliners declaring minimum fuel, no delay can be accepted.

I have flown into TFRs several times with an air ambulance. There has to be coordination with secret service before take off to be allowed in his (a)holiness airspace. But this time I had to take the patient back to the starting point*, refuel, re-file flight plan with the secret service stamp of approval, then start the flight again. Good thing the patient was only critical, not super critical.

Don't get me wrong, I want our nations leaders to travel safely, but not at the expense of endangering others lives.

*The secret service wanted the flight to start at where the patient was picked up, not at the nearest landing strip close to the TFR.
 
I fly out of KPYM; one of the two airports that is notched out for the TFR. Airport management closed 15/33 and changed 24 to right traffic for the duration of the TFR. Over the course of the weekend at least a half dozen peopled busted the TFR.
 
RalphInCA said:
Right. And people complained plenty about his numerous vacations.
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And he STILL has prohibited airspace around Crawford and doesn't even live there anymore.

P-space is a whole lot worse than a TFR. Good thing Crawford is in the middle of nowhere Hill Country.

Lots of folks where I work got trapped by GWB arrivals, for hours at a time. He refused to publish his schedule -- including road and gate closures -- ahead of time like his predecessor did routinely (and Clinton visited here a LOT because his daughter went to college nearby at the time). Obama has been through here several times, and it F's up the airspace, but no one has been trapped on the ground.
 
MAKG1 said:
And he STILL has prohibited airspace around Crawford and doesn't even live there anymore.

P-space is a whole lot worse than a TFR. Good thing Crawford is in the middle of nowhere Hill Country.

Lots of folks where I work got trapped by GWB arrivals, for hours at a time. He refused to publish his schedule -- including road and gate closures -- ahead of time like his predecessor did routinely (and Clinton visited here a LOT because his daughter went to college nearby at the time). Obama has been through here several times, and it F's up the airspace, but no one has been trapped on the ground.
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So we can conclude from this that presidential TFRs were stupid then, and are still stupid now. Good.

The dumbest waste of taxpayer money I have ever witnessed was Bush's visit to Iowa City after the big flood of '06. I quit counting at $18 million, and that was the day BEFORE he showed up, put on a hard hat, held a sandbag for the cameras -- and left.
 
I was planning on flying to Nantucket this weekend from 1B9. My usual route is to overfly Martha's Vineyard to minimize my distance over open water. This is not possible with the TFR in place and I'm really not comfortable flying directly to Nantucket from the Cape in a single-engine. I've decided to fly to Block Island instead.
 
CTLSi said:
Odd, I don't remember anyone comlaining about TFRs when Bush/Cheney were in there. Could it be because they rarely did them and inconvenienced people? Could it be because Bush actually stuck around and did the job? Could it be because when Bush did leave DC he went to his working ranch where he had world leaders join him to do more work?

Guess so...
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I have to say, it was a real relief (from a pilot's point of view) when President Bush's term ended; the P49 around his country home was a minor inconvenience; but the impact on Dallas when he was here was massive, and we really don't miss that one little bit. Ask the folks in Chicago how they're enjoying their time in the box!

It is ridiculous and overbearing, and is the fault of neither the former, nor the current, President; it is the doing of the Secret Service, whose discretion in protecting the CinC is pretty much unlimited.
 
Lol! We always get into the lame political conversations when it comes to Presidential TFRs. Bush had the exact same TFR demensions when he was POTUS. They changed after 9/11. NONE of these were in effect prior. I worked Clinton on ATC at Hilton Head S.C. 4 yrs in a row and his were the standard 3 miles and 3,000 ft. This is a secret service policy change, not a presidential choice.
 
Velocity173 said:
Lol! We always get into the lame political conversations when it comes to Presidential TFRs. Bush had the exact same TFR demensions when he was POTUS. They changed after 9/11. NONE of these were in effect prior. I worked Clinton on ATC at Hilton Head S.C. 4 yrs in a row and his were the standard 3 miles and 3,000 ft. This is a secret service policy change, not a presidential choice.
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It's not about the radius of the TFR, it's about the frequency of them. Obama has been out on over 410 fundraisers so far, way exceeding 8 years of Bush. And that rate is only going to increase given his trajectory of failure.
 
Now it got me too, had to cancel the checkride. Awesome!
 
Why are you people all acting like TFRs are an Obama creation? Something tells me GA around Crawford, Texas, was kind of dead between 2001 and early 2009.
 
And if everyone thinks Congress and Obama, and politicians in general are so awful, then quit your whining and get out there and run for office yourselves, even it's just at a very local level. I'm so sick of people who complain constantly, yet do nothing to change that about which they complain.
 
Eagle I said:
Why are you people all acting like TFRs are an Obama creation? Something tells me GA around Crawford, Texas, was kind of dead between 2001 and early 2009.
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Because Obama is evil and Bush is the second coming of Christ.:lol: Oh wait Obama hasn't changed direction on the Bush policies that upset many, so they must both be Gods.:rolleyes2:
 
Eagle I said:
And if everyone thinks Congress and Obama, and politicians in general are so awful, then quit your whining and get out there and run for office yourselves, even it's just at a very local level. I'm so sick of people who complain constantly, yet do nothing to change that about which they complain.
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applause
 
Eagle I said:
And if everyone thinks Congress and Obama, and politicians in general are so awful, then quit your whining and get out there and run for office yourselves, even it's just at a very local level. I'm so sick of people who complain constantly, yet do nothing to change that about which they complain.
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Nah the system is rigged by playing with it you help it. It grows stronger if you participate. John Galt style is the future, just try and get by when all the men drop out of civilization. What happened to running water?:lol:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Nah the system is rigged by playing with it you help it. It grows stronger if you participate. John Galt style is the future, just try and get by when all the men drop out of civilization. What happened to running water?:lol:
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Did you take your dyslexia medicine today:lol:
 
Jaybird180 said:
applause
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Thanks, but of course people are basically lazy, I think, both intellectually and physically. It's so much easier to be miserable and play the victim than to take action and try to be happy. And then there's always the fear if you achieve happiness that you'll lose it. Yeah, so much easier to just be miserable and complain about it ... I'm glad I learned a while back to see things differently.:)
 
Does any other nation in the free world have the kind of ludicrous security we do? Only place that comes to mind is maybe Israel...

I feel like we've become a nation of cowards in so many ways... I may well run for office at some point but I fear too few share my politics and I'm neither politically correct nor particularly charismatic.
 
cowman said:
Does any other nation in the free world have the kind of ludicrous security we do? Only place that comes to mind is maybe Israel...

I feel like we've become a nation of cowards in so many ways... I may well run for office at some point but I fear too few share my politics and I'm neither politically correct nor particularly charismatic.
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I agree we've become too cowardly, post-9/11. An attack like that was shocking to us, because we've been so isolated and immune for so long. People were too willing to give up their freedom in the name of "security." Of course much of what passes for security these days is pure theater. And sadly, with groups like Islamic State out there, no one is safe, anywhere. We need to get back to living our lives, instead of cowering in fear.
 
Eagle I said:
And if everyone thinks Congress and Obama, and politicians in general are so awful, then quit your whining and get out there and run for office yourselves, even it's just at a very local level. I'm so sick of people who complain constantly, yet do nothing to change that about which they complain.
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The very real problem we face is that anyone with time to run for office belongs to one of two classes:

1. No need to work/independently wealthy. Think: Mitt Romney, George Bush, John Kennedy.

2. No need to work/found ways to leech off the system for a living. Think: Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon.

People from either group are not optimal, and tend to make extreme political choices. The rest of us in the middle tend to get whipsawed between them.
 
The politics are a reflection of ourselves unfortunately... what we really need is a goal. We need to as a nation pursue something everyone can have a hand in and have pride in. We need a future to push for or something....

But instead we're mired down in how the inheritance from the previous generations gets divided and petty arguments about religion and sex.

If I had the power we'd be pushing the space program harder than we ever have. We'd be dumping as many resources into scientific research in all fields as we could afford. No, it may not do a single thing for this generation but the next and the one after that might live in a paradise beyond our wildest dreams if we build it.

Or... you know.. we could fight over gays and how big of a wedge of government cheese we give the poor and stuff.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The very real problem we face is that anyone with time to run for office belongs to one of two classes:

1. No need to work/independently wealthy. Think: Mitt Romney, George Bush, John Kennedy.

2. No need to work/found ways to leech off the system for a living. Think: Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon.

People from either group are not optimal, and tend to make extreme political choices. The rest of us in the middle tend to get whipsawed between them.
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Not sure I agree with #2, since I believe all were working, in one capacity or another. To me leeching off the system is living off a fake disability pension, for instance, something that seems to be quite popular in Rhode Island. (We may be small, but we think big when it comes to corruption!)

But you're right that it takes money, lots of money, to run for office. Obviously having a Congress full of millionaires does not bode well for representation of the rest of us.
 
They just changed it again.
Now it's looking like Friday from 1330 to 1745 local.
Saturday 1715 to 2330 local.

I guess they booked the whole weekend and they are shrinking it as they figure out what they really need.

It sucks (no politics in my post, I would go to the Spin Zone for that, this sucks regardless of who's in office).
 
Eagle I said:
And if everyone thinks Congress and Obama, and politicians in general are so awful, then quit your whining and get out there and run for office yourselves, even it's just at a very local level. I'm so sick of people who complain constantly, yet do nothing to change that about which they complain.
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Becoming part of a broken game of popular people lying, isn't the solution. De-funding them is.
 
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