PPL

You soloed without a Student Pilot Certificate? If so that's illegal. If your CFI allowed you to solo without a valid medical AND the SP Certificate, that CFI could be violated.

As for whether your illegal solo time will count I don't know, but my guess is a big no.
 
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Certificates can be reissued, due to being lost, for example, in which case the date is the date it is reissued, not the original. Examiner won't know that you didn't have one just by looking at the date.
 
It's been some time since I was a student. Isn't the student certificate the first medical certificate that you receive?
 
FlyBoyAndy said:
It's been some time since I was a student. Isn't the student certificate the first medical certificate that you receive?
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The SPC is now separate from the Medical. One has to go thru IACRA to apply for the SPC.
 
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James331 said:
How long ago was this, per chance could this have been a solo on a old pre IACRA BS student pilot cert?
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Yes IF your solo time was pre IACRA and your combination Med/SPC was endorsed you're good.
 
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Wow. I just started training this week and was under the impression you needed your medical and were good. I guess I need a certificate with the quickness!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Peter Anderson said:
Wow. I just started training this week and was under the impression you needed your medical and were good. I guess I need a certificate with the quickness!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Back in the day (~5 years ago) the medical and student pilot certificate were issued on the spot upon completion of the 3rd class medical exam. It was an easy way to kill two birds with one stone.

Now, I don’t know what they do.
 
Ryanb said:
Now, I don’t know what they do.
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There was both a reason from the FAA and some discussion on PoA as to why it got split up. But I have forgotten both....

Perhaps someone can enlighten us?
 
AggieMike88 said:
There was both a reason from the FAA and some discussion on PoA as to why it got split up. But I have forgotten both....

Perhaps someone can enlighten us?
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TSA requirement to investigate applicants before the certificate is issued.
 
April 1, 2016 was the magic date. No student pilot certificates issued in the field anymore (either by the FAA or by a designee). The TSA wants a one week vetting period. The rest of the delay is purely FAA incompetence.
 
flyingron said:
April 1, 2016 was the magic date. No student pilot certificates issued in the field anymore (either by the FAA or by a designee). The TSA wants a one week vetting period. The rest of the delay is purely FAA incompetence.
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I feel all warm and fuzzy in my TSA safety blankie lol

What a huge pile of fail the TSA is
 
James331 said:
I feel all warm and fuzzy in my TSA safety blankie lol

What a huge pile of fail the TSA is
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9-11 James. If you think it can't happen again I don't know what to tell you. IACRA is not an inconvenience once you're familiar with how it works. A whole 4-5 minutes and it's done. If it's a foreign student it gets much more involved, but for a US citizen it doesn't. Sure the old way was quicker and convenient but unfortunately we have enemies who want to kill and destroy us.

In the OP's case his CFI should have known what is required to solo a student, and really the SP should know also.
 
mscard88 said:
9-11 James. If you think it can't happen again I don't know what to tell you. IACRA is not an inconvenience once you're familiar with how it works. A whole 4-5 minutes and it's done. If it's a foreign student it gets much more involved, but for a US citizen it doesn't. Sure the old way was quicker and convenient but unfortunately we have enemies who want to kill and destroy us.

In the OP's case his CFI should have known what is required to solo a student, and really the SP should know also.
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I'm betting that James thinks it CAN happen again...in spite of the fact that the TSA is there to prevent it.
 
The unfortunate thing is that I don't believe there is any regulatory requirement that a CFI does anything to ensure a student has a student certificate prior to endorsing the student's logbook for solo flight. The way the regulations read, I just don't see a requirement that they check for it. Should they as a matter of good mentorship and professionalism? Absolutely! Are they required to? I don't see where they are. Prior to the new student pilot certificate, there was a requirement for a solo endorsement on the back of the medical/student pilot certificate but 61.87 was revised when the new certificate was created and that requirement went away. Now there does not appear to be any safety net to prevent a student from flying without one if the CFI endorses the log but does talk to the student about the certificate requirement. Regulatory wise it appears to be up to the student to read and understand the regs that apply to them including the applicable parts of Part 61. What percentage of students have done that before reaching solo? Probably a pretty small number. So unless the CFI takes on the role of mentor / leader rather than just flight instructor, a student can end up in the same place as our OP. I think this is more of a problem these days with the disappearance of traditional ground schools in favor of online and CBT based courses. So CFIs. please be leaders and mentors to your students as well as awesome flight instructors. It is the right thing to do.

Just my two cents.
 
Not at all true @SkyDog58.

A student has to register on IACRA and then together the student and CFI use the same computer (IOW face to face) and the CFI confirms that the student is who they are by photo ID and vouches for the student on IACRA. Then about a week later the student gets a temporary SP Certificate that they can print and use to solo once the CFI endorses the SP's logbook for solo and a pre solo written test is accomplished. Of course a CFI should be guiding their student thru this process. Not difficult at all.
 
SkyDog58 said:
@mscard88 You obviously misread my post.
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Your first sentence states a CFI has no regulatory responsibility, no? I just explain that there is. :dunno:

First, remember you (CFI, DPE, ACR) are the validator of this applicant’s identity and ability to read, speak, write and understand English. The FAA guidance is from the 61.65G “In accordance with §61.193(b), before processing an application for a student pilot certificate, the authorized individual must ensure the applicant meets the eligibility requirements of § 61.83 as well as verify the applicant’s identity. The authorized individual should use AC 60-28 and the ICAO Web site to prepare for the assessment. (speaks English)” And yes, you of course need to meet face-to-face; a virtual arrangement is not acceptable!
 
mscard88 said:
Your first sentence states a CFI has no regulatory responsibility, no? I just explain that there is. :dunno:
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Is there a requirement that the instructor who endorses solo be the same one who does IACRA for the student certificate?
 
mscard88 said:
Your first sentence states a CFI has no regulatory responsibility, no? I just explain that there is. :dunno:

First, remember you (CFI, DPE, ACR) are the validator of this applicant’s identity and ability to read, speak, write and understand English. The FAA guidance is from the 61.65G “In accordance with §61.193(b), before processing an application for a student pilot certificate, the authorized individual must ensure the applicant meets the eligibility requirements of § 61.83 as well as verify the applicant’s identity. The authorized individual should use AC 60-28 and the ICAO Web site to prepare for the assessment. (speaks English)” And yes, you of course need to meet face-to-face; a virtual arrangement is not acceptable!
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Yes, I do realize that a CFI, DPE, or ASI must do IACRA with a student in order for the student to get a certificate. But what reg states that a CFI must ensure that the student has a certificate before endorsing his logbook for solo flight?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Is there a requirement that the instructor who endorses solo be the same one who does IACRA for the student certificate?
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Not that I'm aware of. Once the student has the SPC other CFI can actually solo the student by endorsing the logbook. It would have to be permitted as the person who registered and confirmed the requirements for that student may leave or the student changes CFI.
 
mscard88 said:
Not that I'm aware of. Once the student has the SPC other CFI can actually solo the student by endorsing the logbook. It would have to be permitted as the person who registered and confirmed the requirements for that student may leave or the student changes CFI.
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So what @SkyDog58 is saying is that the reg outlining requirements for solo flight no longer requires the instructor to even look at a Student Pilot Certificate, and therefore that particular forest could be missed for the trees.
 
MauleSkinner said:
So what @SkyDog58 is saying is that the reg outlining requirements for solo flight no longer requires the instructor to even look at a Student Pilot Certificate, and therefore that particular forest could be missed for the trees.
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That's pretty much it. I didn't read the entire Part 61 for this thread but I just don't see a requirement that a CFI verify that the student has a SPC before endorsing the logbook for solo. The student needs one but who ensures it?
 
MauleSkinner said:
So what @SkyDog58 is saying is that the reg outlining requirements for solo flight no longer requires the instructor to even look at a Student Pilot Certificate, and therefore that particular forest could be missed for the trees.
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61.3 but it doesn't say specifically a CFI has to check it. Common sense says a CFI will though.
 
SkyDog58 said:
That's pretty much it. I didn't read the entire Part 61 for this thread but I just don't see a requirement that a CFI verify that the student has a SPC before endorsing the logbook for solo. The student needs one but who ensures it?
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I'm not sure how the FAA looks at it exactly, but 61.3 says you have to have a pilot certificate. It doesn't say that "your enstructor must ensure" that you have a pilot certificate, so I would think technically it's on the student.

On the other hand, it's the instructor's responsibility to ensure the student is qualified for solo, if nothing else under the Aeronautical Knowlege portion of 61.87; so I would think the instructor would certainly bear responsibility as well.
 
mscard88 said:
61.3 but it doesn't say specifically a CFI has to check it. Common sense says a CFI will though.
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Oh, we are relying on common sense now are we? :rofl:

I still stand by my assertion that the only assurance that it gets verified was in the old version of 61.87 that required the CFI to endorse the old paper medical/SPC. Now that that no longer exists, there is nothing to drive the CFI to look at it.

And again, yes I think the CFI should verify as a matter of mentorship and professionalism.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Oh, we are relying on common sense now are we? :rofl:

I still stand by my assertion that the only assurance that it gets verified was in the old version of 61.87 that required the CFI to endorse the old paper medical/SPC. Now that that no longer exists, there is nothing to drive the CFI to look at it.

And again, yes I think the CFI should verify as a matter of mentorship and professionalism.
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But but but....boss. What else would we use? 61.3 states a pilot have a certificate is all I know, and I can only speak for myself but I will check that any student I endorse for solo has the required documentation. So until the FAA specifies it, I'm doing the best I can.
 
mscard88 said:
But but but....boss. What else would we use? 61.3 states a pilot have a certificate is all I know, and I can only speak for myself but I will check that any student I endorse for solo has the required documentation. So until the FAA specifies it, I'm doing the best I can.
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Which is fantastic, commendable. professional, and damn sweet of you.

I say do what you have to do to keep the kids out of trouble.

Obviously OP's CFI sure as hell does not appear to have done so but then again was he required to?

That's all.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Which is fantastic, commendable. professional, and damn sweet of you.

I say do what you have to do to keep the kids out of trouble.

Obviously OP's CFI sure as hell does not appear to have done so but then again was he required to?

That's all.
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Oh OK, OK, you win. Here's your prize:

IMG_3564.JPG
 
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mscard88 said:
9-11 James. If you think it can't happen again I don't know what to tell you. IACRA is not an inconvenience once you're familiar with how it works. A whole 4-5 minutes and it's done. If it's a foreign student it gets much more involved, but for a US citizen it doesn't. Sure the old way was quicker and convenient but unfortunately we have enemies who want to kill and destroy us.

In the OP's case his CFI should have known what is required to solo a student, and really the SP should know also.
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And what TSA is doing wouldn't have stopped 9/11.

Plus more people die in their bathtubs than by terrorists.

I will not sacrifice liberties for a false sense of "safety".


Frankly our overgrown government is more of a threat to Tammy and Todd on mainstreet than some goat farmer living in a third world country half a world away.
 
James331 said:
And what TSA is doing wouldn't have stopped 9/11.

Plus more people die in their bathtubs than by terrorists.

I will not sacrifice liberties for a false sense of "safety".


Frankly our overgrown government is more of a threat to Tammy and Todd on mainstreet than some goat farmer living in a third world country half a world away.
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Never said it would. But this is what we have to work with. One adapts and presses on.
 
mscard88 said:
Each to their own then.
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As long as it doesn't infringe on other rights, freedom, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

The TSA is worthless, they fail nearly all the times they are tested, furthermore this super security student pilots cert wouldn't have stopped the hijackers on 9/11, so there's that....

But it does make some weak minded anti Americans feel safe.

This country isn't some dirt, it isn't some silly sky cloth flag, it isn't the government, its her constitution.

Frankly the terrorists won, full stop, no other nation has been able to destroy the US, they did, the weak minded masses allowed the government to crap all over the constitution, millions dead between world wars, revolutions, and a few goat farmers crashing a plane and killing only a few thousand people made a worse wound in America than even Hitler, might as well dig up Arlington and put a TSA building there, because their deaths were for nothing.
 
@James331 I don't disagree with your views, but I am referring to the way CFIs have to comply with IACRA. As I said, it's really a nonevent and simple to use. It's what we have to comply with is all I'm saying, and if those of us who want to instruct, well, we have no choice other than not participate. I choose to participate.
 
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