Power outage/shutdown in CA

[AKBill]

We have a friend affected by the power shutdown in CA. They own a grocery store and had had to bring in refrigerator trucks to store frozen and perishable foods.

They said they have lost $38,000 in frozen/perishable foods because of the power shutdowns. I hope they don't suffer more losses in weeks to come.

My prayers are with Jeff and Jackie and all others effected.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Wish I could say what's on my mind, for sure.

 

[chartbundle]

The good news is it's a great time to be in the backup generator industry.

 

[benyflyguy]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

 

[RJM62]

The good news is it's a great time to be in the backup generator industry.

My blog post on how I installed my backup generator has sold more generators than usual over the past few weeks. I don't know who the buyers are, but I kind of suspect a lot of them have been in California. There was a spike more-or-less coinciding with the rolling blackouts.

I was talking to my brother about this yesterday. At the risk of being accused of bashing, and politics aside, it baffles me why people actually live in California. I've been there several times, and there's nothing there that can't be found in other places that don't have the incessant disasters. To me, it's as if God, Mother Nature, or Whomever keeps telling people, "You're not supposed to be living here," but yet they stay.

Earthquakes. Droughts. Floods. Wildfires. Landslides. Tsunamis. Hurricanes. How much does it take before someone gets tired of living someplace where the earth itself seems to be telling them to go away? Now they have intentional blackouts, too. And yet they stay.

Each to his own insanity, I guess. I wish them well. And I appreciate the commissions on the generators.

Rich

 

[AKBill]

We have a small generator that will cover refrigerator and a Monitor heater and a few lights. Thinking about getting a bigger generator.

 

[Sac Arrow]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

The fires are just a symptom of a larger problem, on many levels. I'm not going to get in to that part, but specific to PG&E, they have been lambasted over management and maintenance issues on both the gas side (re: explosion in San Bruno) and last year's fires, for an apparent failure to construct and/or maintain their power lines in a manner where they don't spark fires.

 

[AKBill]

Jackie also said they had to shut the store down for 2 days loosing those sales..

 

[wanttaja]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

Power lines on poles rather than underground. Understandable (probably several orders of magnitude cheaper), but it does leave them vulnerable. A power-tower system is vulnerable, to both natural conditions as well as human maliciousness. Weather conditions have resulted in extreme dryness as well as high winds.

Power lines get knocked down into very dry brush, fire starts, PG&E gets the liability. PG&E had to declare bankruptcy earlier this year, over fires caused by its lines in 2017 and 2018. That's why they're so cautious lately.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[chartbundle]

We have a small generator that will cover refrigerator and a Monitor heater and a few lights. Thinking about getting a bigger generator.

The problem is that many of the areas impacted are predominantly rural which means well water. Also, being rural, many people have animals. Now people can generally tolerate a power outage but animals don't really understand not being able to get water. So, the sales of water tanks, larger generators and other rural amenities are through the roof.

 

[Ventucky Red]

The fires are just a symptom of a larger problem, on many levels. I'm not going to get in to that part, but specific to PG&E, they have been lambasted over management and maintenance issues on both the gas side (re: explosion in San Bruno) and last year's fires, for an apparent failure to construct and/or maintain their power lines in a manner where they don't spark fires.

Thinking out loud here if PG&E hasn't spent $2.6 Billion.... that is right billion with a B in penalties fines, and lawsuit settlements in the past two decades due to their incompetence (post Erin Brokovicvh), maybe they could have done something to fix this.. like installed the technology that would shut the line down the second it breaks....

But hey that's me...

 

[RJM62]

We have a small generator that will cover refrigerator and a Monitor heater and a few lights. Thinking about getting a bigger generator.

This is the one I have. It will power anything in the house, just not at the same time. For example, I can use the electric range and the electric clothes dryer, but not at the same time. Since I can't think of a reason why I'd have a burning need to cook dinner and dry clothes at the same time, I'm okay with that.

I haven't had a power failure since installing the generator (I hope the neighbors are grateful for that), but it's performed superbly in load tests.

Rich

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

can't get a break from climate changes......

 

[geezer]

In earthquake country, underground has its own special risks. Especially time to repair is long, and very expensive. My son had a failure on the underground line in to his home, the utility located the failure the next day, and in another 24 hours, restored power. Since the fault was on his property, the bill was his responsibility, over $1,000. He did not live in earthquake country.

After an earthquake, the time to respond would be much longer, and the specialized teams to do the repair would be stressed to the limit, trying to get everybody back. This is referring only to feeds to n individual house. High voltage lines to substations, if there were more than a few damaged, could go for weeks, with crews from all over the US called in to help.

Locally,a 115,000 volt cable failed, and it took about a week to bring together the necessary high tech equipment and personnel to make the repairs. In California, the adjacent feeders would have been lost at the same time, and square miles of down town would have been completely out for at least a week, and limited power available for several weeks. In elevator buildings, this would make them empty until full power returned, for safety reasons.

Putting things underground has its advantages, BUT...........

 

[chartbundle]

Thinking out loud here if PG&E hasn't spent $2.6 Billion.... that is right billion with a B in penalties fines, and lawsuit settlements in the past two decades due to their incompetence (post Erin Brokovicvh), maybe they could have done something to fix this.. like installed the technology that would shut the line down the second it breaks....

Or, maybe reduced their dividends slightly...

https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-dividends-instead-of-trimming-trees

 

[RJM62]

Or, maybe reduced their dividends slightly...

https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-dividends-instead-of-trimming-trees

Maximizing profits at the expense of safety seems to be a trend among electric utilities. Ever since NYSEG was bought by Avangrid, the only way to get them to send a tree truck out before it actually takes down the line is to have the Sheriff call them. They used to be very proactive when they were independent, but not anymore.

Rich

 

[kath]

...it baffles me why people actually live in California.

Nice weather year-round.
Redwood trees.
Good Asian food.
Multiple awesome National Parks.
Lively metropolitan centers with rich diversity and drawing culture and talent from all over the world.
Whales and sea lions.
Abundant fresh produce.
Sailing.
Good Mexican food.
Places where there's never snow.
Places where there is snow, if you want that.
Places where you can find acceptance if you're part of a societal out-group.
Condors.
Sunshine.
Surfing.
No tornadoes.

Well, that's a start, anyway... I grew up here, and adore the Bay Area. Except for the traffic. (Every place has its issues.)
Helps to keep perspective from time to time.
Currently sitting in Berkeley, where power is still on.
Was planning to fly today, but it's too windy. This morning, the air smelled distinctively of smoke, but now it's better.

 

[chartbundle]

Well, that's a start, anyway... I grew up here, and adore the Bay Area. Except for the traffic. (Every place has its issues.)

California would be a great place to live if it weren't for all the Californians.

Also, the PNW would be a great place to live if it weren't for all the Californians.

 

[Groundpounder]

This also highlights the disadvantage of EV cars. If you have an ICE car, you can stash a few gas cans in the back of your garage if something like this happens. That is a little harder to do with kilowatts.

 

[wilkersk]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

This right here pretty much explains it: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/6851...ver-possible-liability-in-california-wildfire

My take: Our elected officials have a long history of being short on carrot and long on stick towards prime infrastructure stake-holders. We can give windfarms and fake renewable energy companies billions. But, inducements for upgrading primary energy infrastructure, ...not so much!

 

[Shawn]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

Part of the issues that few talk about are all of the environmental nut jobs that block PG&E at every turn. They are not free to cut and trim trees and limbs as needed because of the literal tree huggers, easement holders, and environmental bureaucratic red tape so part of this is a giant F-U saying if we cannot properly maintain our equipment with safety buffers to prevent fires we are just shutting it off.

Now...of course they can't come right out and say that.

 

[chartbundle]

Part of the issues that few talk about are all of the environmental nut jobs that block PG&E fat every turn. They are not free to cut and trim trees and limbs as needed because of the literal tree huggers, easement holders, and environmental bureaucratic red tape so part of this is a giant F-U saying if we cannot properly maintain our equipment with safety buffers to prevent fires we are just shutting it off.

Hopefully this mess gets a law passed saying that utilities are allowed to trim trees. Period. If you really don't want your trees trimmed then you can pay the cost of putting all the lines impacted by your trees underground.

I remember growing up in the Sacramento area, you could almost set your calendar to the tree trimming trucks coming through en-mass every year.

 

[EppyGA]

Anyone know how much PG&E is required to spend on green energy initiatives?

 

[flhrci]

Nice weather year-round.
Redwood trees.

Your list neglected to mention @Sac Arrow . Shame, shame!

 

[flhrci]

Hopefully this mess gets a law passed saying that utilities are allowed to trim trees. Period. If you really don't want your trees trimmed then you can pay the cost of putting all the lines impacted by your trees underground.

I remember growing up in the Sacramento area, you could almost set your calendar to the tree trimming trucks coming through en-mass every year.

AEP contracts tree trimming here in Ohio. No issues here with that.

 

[weilke]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

A power play between state government and a investor owned utility. The state is trying to get control over the electrical grid to realize their utopian energy policies. Fire is a pretense.

 

[geezer]

Kath, what is your vote on shutting down the electricity to prevent fires?

What is your vote on allowing the wind turbines to kill condors, eagles, and other large raptors without any limit or legal liability?

A wild fire came within half a mile of my brother's house while my son was there settling the estate, not electric company initiated.

Mud slide came within 200 Yards of my sisters house a few years ago.

My brother and sister both lived "in LA", one near north side, other near south side. they did not visit, the drive was too long. I thought that weird, but when my son and I drove, using Waze to find the fastest route, it took almost 2 hours. I then understood why high 70/low 80 siblings did not take a drive to visit.

When my sister lived in Orinda, visiting was much more a pleasure, but that was years ago, when traffic was much lighter, and we drove into San Francisco to eat at interesting restaurants. You could find parking in those days, at a reasonable cost.

She moved to LA to be closer to her brother, but bought on the wrong side of town, not realizing the traffic would prevent such visits on a regular basis.

One laughable thing that happened when I was out there a few years ago, a local mountain had a snowfall, and they closed the roads up it, to prevent accidents. Being from a part of the country that has regular snow, I could not imagine less than an inch making a road officially impassable. If you had 4 wheel drive AND chains, they would let you thru!

I have had some pleasant trips to California, but away from the big cities is best, such as out to Catalina Island.

I have crossed Tioga Pass when the snow was 18 feet deep, or I should say, High.

visited Yosemite when you could drive in with your car.

Drove the coastal highway from LA to San Fran, and back inland.

Train from the east to LA, then up the coast to Seattle, and back east.

Swam in the cold Pacific Ocean several places.

You are presumable staying downtown with friends, and using public transportation. They undoubtedly guide you to areas that are safe.

We visited a friend who lived near the beach, and we could not fathom that they did not ever go to the nearby beach. We went, for an hour or so, and never went close to it again. They were next to the beach area that was home to the drugged or drunk population.

Unfortunately, most of the great times were 30 or more years ago. The incredible population increase and its effects on livability are the drivers of change that I can do without.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Thinking out loud here if PG&E hasn't spent $2.6 Billion.... that is right billion with a B in penalties fines, and lawsuit settlements in the past two decades due to their incompetence (post Erin Brokovicvh), maybe they could have done something to fix this.. like installed the technology that would shut the line down the second it breaks....

But hey that's me...

There is some truth in that, certainly they got behind the eight ball in that respect. But - here's the thing. Investor owned utilities have to spend money to make money, so they have every incentive to spend money to improve facilities.

The way it works is this: In an investor owned utility, operational costs are passed through dollar for dollar to the customer. In exchange for being allowed to operate as a monopoly, the PUC sets a rate of return on invested capital, which can vary but it's around seven percent. Any capital expenditures they make through infrastructure improvements they get to make a guaranteed seven percent from. Which, by the way, isn't very much for a private enterprise.

In PG&E's case, the CPUC isn't going to allow the fines and penalties to be passed on to the customer, so, instead, they just go broke and declare bankruptcy. In the end, sorry, but I'm pointing the finger at the excessive fines and penalties, which ultimately just hurt the customer even if they aren't directly charged for them. Justice served? Maybe. But how well did that work out in the end?

 

[Everskyward]

Earthquakes. Droughts. Floods. Wildfires. Landslides. Tsunamis. Hurricanes. How much does it take before someone gets tired of living someplace where the earth itself seems to be telling them to go away? Now they have intentional blackouts, too. And yet they stay.

California doesn't have hurricanes, and I can't remember there ever being a destructive tsunami, although I suppose it's possible.

While I know a segment of people who would never leave California, I know others who are looking to move on, especially after the fires in recent years, and now the precautionary blackouts. I live in the City, so have not been affected by the PSPS (new acronym I have learned). My main complaints have to do with the human element, not nature, which is beautiful around here, but every place has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[geezer]

The original fines were for hiring a state licensed contractor to install a pipeline, and a state licensed inspection company to verify that the welds were correctly done. They were not done correctly, and the flaws were not detected by the inspectors, so PG&E pays the fines, because they hired the incompetent, licensed companies. The state did not pull the licenses of the companies who did the work.

That is why they have an omniscient federal judge passing on all their decisions on spending for maintenance, and he did not fine the contractor who claimed to have cut trees that sparked another fire. PG&E hired him, and is fully liable if he lies on the work he did not do. He cannot raise rates to pay for what he orders, only the PUC can do that, and the rates are already too high.

The deep pockets always get the fines, until they are bankrupt.

The judge says he is fine with the blackouts, and if the PUC does not order them, he will.

I probably should have capitalized judge, but not in the mood right now.

 

[Tantalum]

could someone explain to me what is really going on over there??? If it’s too political then direct me to where I can educate myself more about it. It’s hard for me to grasp that we have to do blackouts in an industrialized first world nation. I thought it just had to do with fires but that can’t all be it

Politics free objective reason, as I understand it:
--several areas now are ripe for fire starting.. after some decent rainfalls last winter a lot of the vegetation has now died and is very dry, basically making for perfect kindling. Add to that dry warm winds and (still) hot summer temps fires can easily start.. we're literally talking about cigarette ashes, hell, even a discarded beer bottle can magnify the sun onto a dry leaf and start a fire (we actually tried this, and it worked, back in the scouts).. so power companies shut power to certain areas that are particularly at risk to prevent arcing from the high tension wires to start a fire.. fires have been caused by power lines that fall during high winds and arc on the ground

^that's how I understand it, and how I was "non politically educated" on it

..now why a first world country, especially one as "progressive" as CA (mind you folks, outside of San Francisco and LA the majority of California "back country" .. even populated areas like San Luis Obispo.. many hard core PoA'ers would get along here just fine.. don't believe all the media hype that Fox and USA Today spread) doesn't have a meaningful way to make the lines either high enough, or keep sufficient clearance around them to prevent forest fires... well that's another thing

 

[Tantalum]

Earthquakes. Droughts. Floods. Wildfires. Landslides. Tsunamis. Hurricanes.

Lived here since 2009.. never have I experienced a single one of the above. Also.. CA is a huge state.. just because a county somewhere in the mountains may get a landslide during a rainstorm doesn't really mean much.. that's like saying to someone living in Denver "how can you live in Colorado? Aren't you terrified of avalanches?"

..not only have I never experienced a single of the above mentioned things while living here the last 10 years... in that same 10 years here's how all the "thanks God it's not California states" endured:
-2010: Floods in Arkansas killed 20
-2011:
--Floods in the Mississippi river valley caused $2B-$4B in damage and killed 20
--Tornadoes in Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas, Virginia, Missouri killed over 500 people and caused $15B in damage
2012:
--Hurricane Sandy kills 147 and causes $75B in damage
--Wildfires in Colorado kill 6
2016:
--Wildfires in Tennessee kill 14 in the smoky mountains and cause $990M in damage
2017:
--Hurricane Maria kills 134 and causes $65B in damage to Florida, South Carolina, Goergia, and Puerto Rico

... and I'm lazy to write all the rest, but feel free to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_in_the_United_States California appears just once on the list here with a forest fire that killed 88. You couldn't pay me enough to move back to Mass.. you can't go more than a few weeks in the winter months without a power outage due to storms and snow, etc.

Everyone else can feel free to live in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do besides bowl, drink, and be angry.. but where I live I can fly, ski, hike, and sail.. all in the same day, and enjoy beautiful views like this when I fly.. I have never, and will never understand why people hate this state so much.. don't like the Kardashians? Who cares.. don't follow them on Instagram and don't watch their stupid TV show. What some rich person does has little impact on how I choose to live my life

Plus, where else am I going to get views like this 25 minutes from my home airport? Year round.. and be able to sit at a pool in February, outside.

/rant over

 

[RJM62]

Politics free objective reason, as I understand it:
--several areas now are ripe for fire starting.. after some decent rainfalls last winter a lot of the vegetation has now died and is very dry, basically making for perfect kindling. Add to that dry warm winds and (still) hot summer temps fires can easily start.. we're literally talking about cigarette ashes, hell, even a discarded beer bottle can magnify the sun onto a dry leaf and start a fire (we actually tried this, and it worked, back in the scouts).. so power companies shut power to certain areas that are particularly at risk to prevent arcing from the high tension wires to start a fire.. fires have been caused by power lines that fall during high winds and arc on the ground

^that's how I understand it, and how I was "non politically educated" on it

..now why a first world country, especially one as "progressive" as CA (mind you folks, outside of San Francisco and LA the majority of California "back country" .. even populated areas like San Luis Obispo.. many hard core PoA'ers would get along here just fine.. don't believe all the media hype that Fox and USA Today spread) doesn't have a meaningful way to make the lines either high enough, or keep sufficient clearance around them to prevent forest fires... well that's another thing

They used to spray under the wires to kill all the vegetation. New York even has a special Pesticide Applicator license subcategory for that work. It's fallen out of favor in recent years, however.

Rich

 

[Bell206]

FWIW: 70 years of preventing proper management of forested/grassland areas due to "environmental" policies that prevent physically removing/managing deadfall/natural fuels, properly clearing right-aways, and put nature above proper urban development. The same issue is found in our National Parks. When I worked fires back in the 90s via helicopter ops out west the consensous was it was only a matter of time. After the 2018 deadly fire season these issues were briefly brought up in the media but as usual disappeared. Until proper resource management is put above certain beliefs, every year will only get worse until all the natural fuel is consumed.

 

[Sac Arrow]

NorCal right now is a nightmare. Even here in Sactown stuff is burning left and right. These winds are killing us.

 

[Everskyward]

Since I last posted I walked down to my favorite beach to have a look at nature. Very windy but no fires, smoke, or tsunamis.

 

[AKBill]

After the 2018 deadly fire season these issues were briefly brought up in the media but as usual disappeared. Until proper resource management is put above certain beliefs, every year will only get worse until all the natural fuel is consumed.

That is a sobering thought..

 

[chartbundle]

Plus, where else am I going to get views like this 25 minutes from my home airport? Year round.. and be able to sit at a pool in February, outside.

/rant over

This is why I don't live in San Diego any more...


The people, they're EVERYWHERE... But it is briefly amusing circling over Mt Woodson and taking pictures of all the people taking pictures of the plane circling Mt Woodson.(Not that I kept any of those.)

Also, I bought the closest house I could afford to San Diego with a Pacific Ocean view... It just happened to be nearly 800 NM away.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Since I last posted I walked down to my favorite beach to have a look at nature. Very windy but no fires, smoke, or tsunamis.

View attachment 79055

North Beach? Am I looking at the Headlands in the diatance?

 

[Tantalum]

with a Pacific Ocean view

Yeah the tourists ruin Potato Chip rock.. but there are plenty of places off the beaten path without people, you just have to explore and stay away from the Insta spots.. I took this 1.5 hr from San Diego, not a human in site:

The people, they're EVERYWHERE

Nice! Great view. Washington? Always wanted to do some sailing up there. Granted, I think you'll find that Oregon and Washington also get a fair bit of negative stigma from "some"