Portapilot - Portable autopilot?

MarkH

MarkH

Line Up and Wait
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MarkH
https://generalaviationnews.com/202...d0U6-NYKUN6Q2H7vIxsphs9NdavB7hqlt5_UJ-Mbklpmo

Reading about it, I am both excited and terrified. On one hand, I would love to have an autopilot in my Yankee, but I would much rather see a good, reasonably priced digital autopilot installed by a professional.

This feels like a product that only exists because of how difficult (and therefor expensive) it is to get autopilots approved.

Having said that, with the limited options available for my Yankee, I would think about buying one.
 
Don't waste your money. an AA-1 begs to be flown. A stock plane is already overloaded.
 
chemgeek said:
Don't waste your money. an AA-1 begs to be flown. A stock plane is already overloaded.
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There is a strong safety argument for digital autopilots, and I am pretty sure I have individual boots that weigh more than that device (and if you swap out a gyro for a Dynon D10, and add autopilot servos, the weight difference would be less). I'm OK with flying barefoot if that makes for a safer flight.
 
30 minutes before sunset is legally night? What?
 
I would put this in my experimental in a heartbeat for one reason only. I make a lot of fairly long flights. I would love the ability to take a short break from hand flying now and then. Just a ten minute break would be a big deal to me. Then hand fly for a while take another break. I have certain issues that would make this very beneficial to me. Even a single axis control (wing leveler) would work for me.

I don't fly IFR and I don't fly at night. I've been looking at adding an autopilot but the complexity of servos, controllers and interface with a control system is way more complexity than I want to deal with for what I need it for.

I hope this proves successful and becomes a marketable product. Also I would need a version that worked with a vertical stick.
 
I used to have an autopilot for my boat based on similar concept. There was a small bracket on the boat, and one on the tiller. The autopilot just snapped into place when needed. Great workload saver when sailing single handed. I always thought something similar would be possible for an airplane.
 
I would need to be confident in overriding that contraption in case it becomes self aware and tries to terminate me.
 
I don’t see any chance the FAA approves this. They will not even let you shoot a GPS approach with any of the excellent portable GPS’s available even in a experimental aircraft. What the FAA is however doing is allowing the experimental autopilots to be installed in many certified aircraft which is driving dramatic autopilot cost reductions.
 
Considering the author has "years of flying small single engine aircraft" including a night flight with his daughter in a Cessna 150 given as the scenario, but is listed on the FAA database as a Student Pilot, I have to question the rest of the article. I suppose his daughter could have been a CFI (or even the pilot, but that's certainly not how it sounds from the description).

upload_2020-8-5_7-0-30.png

While the product is interesting and does seem to have a potential market, I was interested that the author never mentioned "instrument training would also be a good idea for maintaining control in clouds", and looked to see if he had an instrument rating or not. Surprise, "Student Pilot".
 
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Relevancy to the device in the article?
 
MauleSkinner said:
So in the author’s example, you accidentally fly into the clouds, reach down, grab the actuator and click it into place while maintaining control of the aircraft to make it easier than just maintaining control of the aircraft?
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and according to the company website it takes "only minutes to attach"
 
AggieMike88 said:
People forget we already have an inflatable solution
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b7562c53-1e87-4d65-aa85-615b19675bc5.jpg
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Relevancy to the device in the article?
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Perhaps none.

But when the author portrays themselves as speaking from a position of knowledge and experience, while the whole flight scenario posed in the opening third of the article is possibly a violation in itself, then it does cast shadows on the rest of the article itself. If the story is true, then there are doubts one way, if the story is completely fabricated then there are are different doubts.

Assuming my quick research is correct, then had the author started the article with "As a student pilot, I am always concerned about disorientation during inadvertent flight into IMC, but then I found this device...", that might have been a better way to approach it, instead of the implications of being a highly experienced VFR pilot.
 
Jeff767 said:
I don’t see any chance the FAA approves this. They will not even let you shoot a GPS approach with any of the excellent portable GPS’s available even in a experimental aircraft. What the FAA is however doing is allowing the experimental autopilots to be installed in many certified aircraft which is driving dramatic autopilot cost reductions.
Click to expand...

Do you have any examples? I have a certificated plane for which no autopilots are available and the manufactures have expressed no interest in adding my plane type to their AML. Any autopilot would be a nice addition.
 
It's clever, but does require ship's power and a data connection to the desired navigator. It looks like one part may be permanently mounted on the panel or yoke collar? The rest of the parts are affixed to the yoke column along with the connector. Obviously limited to VFR only.
 
RussR said:
Considering the author has "years of flying small single engine aircraft" including a night flight with his daughter in a Cessna 150 given as the scenario, but is listed on the FAA database as a Student Pilot, I have to question the rest of the article. I suppose his daughter could have been a CFI (or even the pilot, but that's certainly not how it sounds from the description).

View attachment 88545

While the product is interesting and does seem to have a potential market, I was interested that the author never mentioned "instrument training would also be a good idea for maintaining control in clouds", and looked to see if he had an instrument rating or not. Surprise, "Student Pilot".
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He's been a student since 2013, so the "years of experience" part is true.
 
Interesting.





Now for the inevitable......you can/cannot log PIC while using this device argument in 3....2....1........:confused:
 
What is the FAA stance on portable equipment that attaches to the aircraft control system in a certificated aircraft? Portable NAV and WX devices do not interfere with flight control integrity. This device potentially does. This is more of a convenience than safety device.

An AA-1 is an aircraft with 3 hours range with reserves, less that that with an O-320 mod. Is an autopilot device of that much utility in a VFR-only aircraft of limited range?
 
chemgeek said:
An AA-1 is an aircraft with 3 hours range with reserves, less that that with an O-320 mod. Is an autopilot device of that much utility in a VFR-only aircraft of limited range?
Click to expand...

Already answered in this thread:

I would put this in my experimental in a heartbeat for one reason only. I make a lot of fairly long flights. I would love the ability to take a short break from hand flying now and then. Just a ten minute break would be a big deal to me. Then hand fly for a while take another break. I have certain issues that would make this very beneficial to me. Even a single axis control (wing leveler) would work for me.
Click to expand...
 
dmspilot said:
30 minutes before sunset is legally night? What?
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I know, right? and the guy is a super cautious "fair weather" VFR [student] pilot who decides to go flying at dusk with a 2,500 ft scattered layer and is presumably not night current as he was trying to "get a feel for night flying" and brings his daughter along. Knows there's clouds at 2,500 ft and then is surprised when after passing 2K he flies into the clouds? Sounds like a cautious, play by the rules, kind of dude to me

They have stuff like this for boats. I just don't really get how this would work in a real life situation.. wouldn't setting it up distract you more from flying? And it's heading only.. what about altitude? Lastly, it seems clunky, in the Archer at the club I can't even get the yoke mount for the iPad around the yoke without having it interfere with the movement of the yoke - I don't see how this would work - seems like a lot of cockpit clutter for a situation that shouldn't happen

Comments on the article are interesting.. honestly I agree with the folks saying the money and effort are better spent with a CFI as opposed to being lulled into a false sense of security with this. There are plenty of well kitted planes with LVL buttons and capable autopilots that crash after disorientation in the clouds.

RussR said:
Surprise, "Student Pilot".
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..because, you know, student pilots are allowed to take their daughters up flying to "get a feel for night flying"

MauleSkinner said:
you accidentally fly into the clouds, reach down, grab the actuator and click it into place while maintaining control of the aircraft to make it easier than just maintaining control of the aircraft?
Click to expand...
I didn't understand this either

**while potentially a cool product in itself, it seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Learn to fly competently and/or get a plane with an actual autopilot.
 
Tantalum said:
. . . **while potentially a cool product in itself, it seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Learn to fly competently and/or get a plane with an actual autopilot.
Click to expand...

I could imagine where this could be helpful in situations like inadvertent flight into IMC if it could also include a wing leveler. I mean, just think if a VFR-only pilot could reach down and install a device (or just turn it on) and have it maintain wings-level , or a heading, or altitude (obviously the number of available axis are of importance). It might help prevent the spiral of death in that type of situation. The caveat being that the person would have to be proficient at installing and operating the unit for it to be effective. I wouldn't shun the device outright, but they aren't likely presenting the best use-cases. A portable unit that could attach to the passenger yoke shaft to provide roll or pitch-axis assistance could be something akin to the CAPS system in its application.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I could imagine where this could be helpful in situations like inadvertent flight into IMC if it could also include a wing leveler. I mean, just think if a VFR-only pilot could reach down and install a device (or just turn it on) and have it maintain wings-level , or a heading, or altitude (obviously the number of available axis are of importance). It might help prevent the spiral of death in that type of situation. The caveat being that the person would have to be proficient at installing and operating the unit for it to be effective. I wouldn't shun the device outright, but they aren't likely presenting the best use-cases. A portable unit that could attach to the passenger yoke shaft to provide roll or pitch-axis assistance could be something akin to the CAPS system in its application.
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Personally, I think the old AOPA 180-degree turn technique is a far better way to do it. But nobodybteaches that, so...
 
MauleSkinner said:
Personally, I think the old AOPA 180-degree turn technique is a far better way to do it. But nobody teaches that, so...
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I don't disagree that there are effective methods for it which are well-established. However, it seems like there's a couple of pilots each year who manage to get into deteriorating conditions (sometimes at night) and end up in the death spiral. Maybe this is another tool in the bag for some who can slap it into place, tell it to make a standard turn to a heading 180-degrees the opposite and maintain altitude. All it would need is an internal compass (or external navigation), a inclinometer, and a altimeter or pressure altitude source, right? Just about every cell phone from the past decade has that tech, crude as it may be.

Sure, without other inputs the system could keep trying to maintain altitude when the pilot has pulled power, or an errant altimeter/inclinometer signal could have it making absurd pitch/bank inputs. However, I'd liken it to losing most or all of your panel in IFR and using a tablet or cell phone EFB. It's not certified, and you may not want to rely on it, but when the chips are down is it a bad tool to have on board?
 
I understand that everyone (including the article) wants to talk about the worst case scenario, but every accident is a chain, and I am of the opinion that on long cross country flight, an autopilot’s workload reduction and fatigue reduction ability will prevent as many dangerous situations as the wings level button in IMC trope.

I have made fatigue related mistakes, even in my relatively low time flying. Anyone who has not either has not made one yet, or is lying. My mistakes have not bent a plane or injured anyone, but I still want to minimize the likelihood of making more of these types of mistakes.

I see this as more of an option to minimize fatigue on long, clear, VMC flights, than as an accidental IMC savior.
 
On a copilot yoke, solo flying around? Sure, why not? beats a $15K panel mount if that's a large fraction of the hull value. Arguably could be taken between multiple planes.

Plus free entertainment for the rest of us when the first plane crash contains one of these and the legal arguments are made public. :D I'd actually root for the guy.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I don't disagree that there are effective methods for it which are well-established. However, it seems like there's a couple of pilots each year who manage to get into deteriorating conditions (sometimes at night) and end up in the death spiral. Maybe this is another tool in the bag for some who can slap it into place, tell it to make a standard turn to a heading 180-degrees the opposite and maintain altitude. All it would need is an internal compass (or external navigation), a inclinometer, and a altimeter or pressure altitude source, right? Just about every cell phone from the past decade has that tech, crude as it may be.

Sure, without other inputs the system could keep trying to maintain altitude when the pilot has pulled power, or an errant altimeter/inclinometer signal could have it making absurd pitch/bank inputs. However, I'd liken it to losing most or all of your panel in IFR and using a tablet or cell phone EFB. It's not certified, and you may not want to rely on it, but when the chips are down is it a bad tool to have on board?
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Doesn’t really matter what method you use, you have to have training and practice to make it work. Instrument skills atrophy quite quickly, especially for a non-instrument-rated pilot. My personal preference is one that takes advantage of the airplanes stability rather than pilot skill. On the other hand, maybe the two are compatible...fly with your feet (the AOPA method) while you use your hands to hook up the Porta Potty.

The real problem, IMO, is simply the FAA requiring a private pilot with three hours of training by reference to instruments to revert to that training under stress. Poor potty training.
 
Anyone have an update? Anyone install one yet? PIREP anyone?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
I would need to be confident in overriding that contraption in case it becomes self aware and tries to terminate me.
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It is attached with magnets. So it becomes disconnected when you pull hard enough to disconnect the magnets. Seems easy enough. It only needs enough holding power to hold the yoke for most flight regimes, not enough holding power for moderate to severe turbulence.
 
I’m ready to buy just waiting for it to be released for the Cessna 150.
 
Still waiting for a pirep from someone who has actually used the device either 172,152,150. Thanks
 
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