Poor use of information.

[Maxmosbey]

I know that Google, Facebook, Yahoo, and everyone else on the internet magically track me and gather information about me. That is a non-issue with me. I am not a real private person and I certainly am not a paranoid person so I don't think about it that much. Most of the stuff that I buy on line comes from 4 Wheel Drive Hardware, Quadratec, and Swim Outlet. So half the sites I go to have ads on them for one of those three companies regardless of the content of the site. So last night I was getting my swimming stuff ready and I realized that I was running low on Summer Solution body wash, which is great for getting the chlorine off my skin and out of my hair after I swim. So I got on the Swim Outlet site and low and behold it was on sale. So I ordered two bottles. But then I saw that Sporti Pull Buoys were on sale for $5.95. The ones at the pool are getting so gross that I don't like using them, so I decided that I better get one of my own for $5.95. Then I noticed that Billibong hoodies were on sale for $24.95, and I just ruined the zipper on my Chicago Cubs hoodie a couple of weeks ago, so I thought I would get a new hoodie while I'm at it. So great, I ordered all that last night..

Now today, everywhere I go on the internet there is a Swim Outlet ad telling me that Swimmers Solution is on sale for $5.95 a bottle, Sporti Pull Buoys are on sale for $5.95, and not only that, Billibong hoodies are on sale for $24.95. That is so crazy. No kidding Swim Outlet. They track my every move on the internet to tell me that all the stuff I bought yesterday is on sale today. Just click here to buy it again.

 

[AggieMike88]

Here... have some cookies....

Time to run Spybot S&D to find and nuke the trackers.

 

[cowman]

I love it when I buy a movie or tv series on DVD or Blu-Ray(yes I've heard of Netflix but I have tiny data caps) and they show me an ad for what I just bought.

Why? Doubly annoying if you can't skip it.

 

[Geico266]

Check out Google maps and the traffic "overlay" for your area. They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road. Stop & go traffic it is recorded on Google Maps.

They know where your phone is 24/7/365, and they are using that data.

Okay tin foil hat guys!

 

[Maxmosbey]

Check out Google maps and the traffic "overlay" for your area. They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road. Stop & go traffic it is recorded on Google Maps.

They know where your phone is 24/7/365, and they are using that data.

Okay tin foil hat guys!

That is OK with me. I'm not going anywhere interesting anyway. I think you can turn that off on your phone if you want, but I've never worried about it enough to figure out how. I wonder if I really screw it up when I forget it at home. I also wonder if the guy in charge of watching me gets bored. I'm probably not too exciting to follow.

 

[wsuffa]

Check out Google maps and the traffic "overlay" for your area. They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road. Stop & go traffic it is recorded on Google Maps.

They know where your phone is 24/7/365, and they are using that data.

Okay tin foil hat guys!

What annoys me about that is you can't opt out if you want to use the GPS feature on the maps app. You can opt-out of sending your location data to Google, but doing so denies you use of some of the apps (maps and a couple of others I found).

Yes, it's their "right" to impose conditions on the "free" apps, but I'd contend that it's not exactly "free" as you buy the phone & the software is part of that purchase.

More annoying is the mining of your email and your use of the browser

 

[EppyGA]

Check out Google maps and the traffic "overlay" for your area. They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road. Stop & go traffic it is recorded on Google Maps.

They know where your phone is 24/7/365, and they are using that data.

Okay tin foil hat guys!

Actually, one of the best apps for those who spend a lot of time in traffic is Wayz. I was using last week on the way to th doctors office and it pinpointed a car on the shoulder and a police car clocking folks.

 

[Captain]

Maps needs your location to run. The entire world isn't cached on your phone. It needs to know where you are to download that area.

 

[RJM62]

Check out Google maps and the traffic "overlay" for your area. They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road. Stop & go traffic it is recorded on Google Maps.

They know where your phone is 24/7/365, and they are using that data.

Okay tin foil hat guys!

If I had the money, I'd buy a couple thousand Androids, activate them, put them in a backpack, and ask Henning to schlep them around with him. That would give Google's bots something to do.

-Rich

 

[Maxmosbey]

What annoys me about that is you can't opt out if you want to use the GPS feature on the maps app. You can opt-out of sending your location data to Google, but doing so denies you use of some of the apps (maps and a couple of others I found).

Yes, it's their "right" to impose conditions on the "free" apps, but I'd contend that it's not exactly "free" as you buy the phone & the software is part of that purchase.

I suppose that the more vehicles that it is tracking the more information it can provide. So if you want to be a user, you also have to be a contributer as well. If everyone elected to take information but not give information, it wouldn't work.

 

[wsuffa]

I suppose that the more vehicles that it is tracking the more information it can provide. So if you want to be a user, you also have to be a contributer as well. If everyone elected to take information but not give information, it wouldn't work.

See, that doesn't bother me too much. It's what else Google is doing with the data and who it might be selling it to is the concern. IMHO the value you get in return is not what your personal data is worth.

 

[Maxmosbey]

See, that doesn't bother me too much. It's what else Google is doing with the data and who it might be selling it to is the concern. IMHO the value you get in return is not what your personal data is worth.

I don't know what the value of my information is, but the whole premise for posting this is that if targeting me with ads about things that I already bought is what they are getting out of it, they aren't getting much either. But I don't know what else they are using all that tracking data for, and whether it is nefarious or not.

 

[Captain]

And how much is knowing I'm on the 410 northbound at 25mph worth?

I'd say it's worth a red line on the highway. They're bots. Sending phones in backpacks isn't even screwing with them. You can't 'screw' with them any more that you can screw with a chair.

 

[tinerj]

I'm a writer, so I'm always researching stuff that I have no intention of buying -- I was writing a mystery story about a young woman biker, so I looked up the name of the type of leather clothing she would wear:

"She wore a strapless leather bustier, and high boots ending in leather riding shorts. She wore padded knee and elbow pads, like a roller derby babe. Her skull helmet revealed hair that streamed back from a face glowing with a mischievous smile."

So for the next month every site I open has an ad for those items -- even ways to improve my smile. (All right, the smile is an exaggeration, but the rest of it is true.)

 

[arealrider]

I Google d flash paper one day......couple days later Googled a golf club.....and the add said "people who bought this golf club also bought these items also" And flash paper was listed !! lol How many people buy them two items ??? lol

 

[ateamer]

Meh, I'll happily let them track internet usage and target their ads at me in exchange for all the free information that's out there. Seems like a pretty fair trade to me.

 

[Challenged]

Pertinent Firefox Add-ons:
Ghostery: https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/ghostery/
Adblock Plus: https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/adblock-plus/

 

[Geico266]

If I had the money, I'd buy a couple thousand Androids, activate them, put them in a backpack, and ask Henning to schlep them around with him. That would give Google's bots something to do.

-Rich

I wonder what the bots think when I take my phone flying.


Google masters probably think, " Well, there goes Henning"

 

[wsuffa]

And how much is knowing I'm on the 410 northbound at 25mph worth?

A lot more than you might think, especially when aggregated with all the other data they collect on you. They store it. It is personally identifiable. It is accessible to humans as needed. I can assure you that it is worth far, far more to them than you receive in benefits (the profit margin is very, very high). Unlike any other business/information vendor, you have very little ability to control the price of your information.

Would your opinion be any different if it were a government 3-letter agency instead of Google? Suppose they justified it as "we get to collect information on you, and the value you get is the freedom you have"?

Meh, I'll happily let them track internet usage and target their ads at me in exchange for all the free information that's out there. Seems like a pretty fair trade to me.

And that's your choice. Though technically Google is not supplying the "free information" (and it's by no means "free"), the creators of the information are supplying it, and your ISP or mobile provider is charging you for the access.

 

[Geico266]

Maps needs your location to run. The entire world isn't cached on your phone. It needs to know where you are to download that area.

It's unsettling to me to know they know where I am all the time. They know how much time I spend at the bar, at home, in the stores, at the gas station, how long of a lunch I take, where I eat.

If I am a bank robber I'm leaving my phone at home.

 

[Captain]

It's unsettling to me to know they know where I am all the time. They know how much time I spend at the bar, at home, in the stores, at the gas station, how long of a lunch I take, where I eat.

If I am a bank robber I'm leaving my phone at home.

Why is it 'unsettling'? When you're on the road other motorists know you're there too.

Right now I'm at Mid Coast Tires in Vero Beach, Florida. Do you care? Of course not. They don't track you to be an evil big brother overlord passing judgment on where you go and whether or not you should be there. They track you to provide service to you.

Like my flower analogy before. You wouldn't tell a stranger where you live for no reason. But that pizza guy is a stranger and you do tell them where you live. Why? So you can get benefit...in this case a pizza brought to you.

Data collection for the sake of collection IS creepy. Data collection for the sake of needed information to provide service is not. Your home address is obviously needed in order to deliver a pizza there. People get that and therefore it's not creepy.

In many cases people may not be aware of the WHY the information is needed and what the information is used for. I will agree that Google (and others) could do a MUCH better job of informing the public of what they're collecting and why. In every case I've run across that I've looked into the information was pertinent and collected for good reason that made sense.

The only user privacy issue that I can think of where Google overstepped their bounds was the Buzz fiasco where they clearly screwed up. Having said that, though, it was far less egregious than what FaceBook does on a regular basis. Not that that makes it right...

 

[Maxmosbey]

Would your opinion be any different if it were a government 3-letter agency instead of Google? Suppose they justified it as "we get to collect information on you, and the value you get is the freedom you have"?

I always assumed that they were. Even before there was the internet.

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

They are gathering traffic data based on how fast you are going down the road.

Next time I'm at the race track, I'll keep my phone with me. What do they make of a car going round and round the same goofy pattern at tripple-digit speeds?

 

[Maxmosbey]

Next time I'm at the race track, I'll keep my phone with me. What do they make of a car going round and round the same goofy pattern at tripple-digit speeds?

Who are they? What do "they" make of it. There is no one sitting there watching it. They don't make anything of it. All that data is just that, data. There is no making anything of it. If you go around and around a track at triple digit speed, it just goes into a data base somewhere that is so huge that your little foray around the track will not even be a blip. We seem to personalize it, but it isn't personal. No one is actually watching "you". Can someone get in there and look at your personal data? I don't know. Some of it I suppose, but what would you have to do for an actual person to get in there and pull your data out and look at it?

 

[wsuffa]

Who are they? What do "they" make of it. There is no one sitting there watching it. They don't make anything of it. All that data is just that, data. There is no making anything of it. If you go around and around a track at triple digit speed, it just goes into a data base somewhere that is so huge that your little foray around the track will not even be a blip. We seem to personalize it, but it isn't personal. No one is actually watching "you". Can someone get in there and look at your personal data? I don't know. Some of it I suppose, but what would you have to do for an actual person to get in there and pull your data out and look at it?

It can be pulled individually.

The field of analytics (aka Big Data) is very focused on tying as much as possible to you personally. In fact, it is rumored that Google (in particular) has better analytics than the Feds.

 

[Captain]

Its likely Google does data better than the feds. So what?

 

[wsuffa]

Maybe it's time to Godwin this thread. :wink2:

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Maps needs your location to run. The entire world isn't cached on your phone. It needs to know where you are to download that area.

How does my Garmin GPS work?

I know the GPS not a phone, but it can store the whole world in its memory.

The cell phone industry chooses not to let one cache maps- money from data plans, tracking information, and so forth. Most cell phone users probably prefer not storing the whole world so the RAM can be used for their music collection.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

And how much is knowing I'm on the 410 northbound at 25mph worth?

It may be worth a fair amount, especially combined with other information. changes in your trtaffic patterns are also potentially useful to marketing people. Certainly, it may be useful to law enforcement to include you or exclude you from the set of people that may have done something.

We have a system at work thet replenishes consumables for customers- the instrument reports what they use and we replace it. The user doesn't need to keep a large amount of stock on hand and the convenience keeps them from using the competition's consumables. Based on what gets reported used, I can tell their workload, if they work weekends, if they are scaling up a project, sometimes even if someone is sick or on vacation. Combine this with other information and one can get a good picture of what that company is making or the type of project they are doing.

 

[PilotAlan]

I always assumed that they were. Even before there was the internet.

Heh.
My wife and I are hazmat, WMD, and anti-terror specialists. It's routine for our phone calls to talk about IEDs, car bombs, Sarin or VX nerve agent, bioweapons, and to have keywords in there like "Olympics", "Inauguration", etc.
We have joked for years that the computer at NSA must flash lights and ring bells when we are talking, and the guy at the desk says "Oh, that's just Alan and Wendy again."

But with my Google searches and the things in my email, I do have to wonder what Google makes of it. I am SURE my material has triggered a human review a couple of times.

 

[Captain]

How does my Garmin GPS work?

I know the GPS not a phone, but it can store the whole world in tis memory.

The cell phone industry chooses not to let one cache maps- money from data plans, tracking information, and so forth. Most cell phone users probably prefer not storing the whole world so the RAM can be used for their music collection.

Your Garmin is a dedicated device and does not need to share resources with a phone, a calendar, a calculator, email, music and player, web browser, camera, angry birds, weather app, etc.

Also, your Garmin does not have the detail (roads, traffic, satellite, bike paths, footpaths,) that a phone does. My Nexus 4 will show me my house to where I can make out my mailbox.

Speaking of 'money from data plans'...any idea who is turning the Internet Provider industry on it's ear by offering it's own service in 3 major markets? Kansas City, Austin, and I forget the third...Utah somewhere I think. This company thinks the Service Providers for years has been ripping off the American consumer by charging WAY too much for limited bandwidth. They are lighting up the fiber in those three markets providing 1 Gig download speed for $60 per month. (At 1 Gig you could download an HD movie in 2 to 3 seconds)

Yup...Google is doing that.


edit to add: Provo UT is the third city. Here's a link:

Google Fiber

 

[wsuffa]

Your Garmin is a dedicated device and does not need to share resources with a phone, a calendar, a calculator, email, music and player, web browser, camera, angry birds, weather app, etc.

Also, your Garmin does not have the detail (roads, traffic, satellite, bike paths, footpaths,) that a phone does. My Nexus 4 will show me my house to where I can make out my mailbox.

Speaking of 'money from data plans'...any idea who is turning the Internet Provider industry on it's ear by offering it's own service in 3 major markets? Kansas City, Austin, and I forget the third...Utah somewhere I think. This company thinks the Service Providers for years has been ripping off the American consumer by charging WAY too much for limited bandwidth. They are lighting up the fiber in those three markets providing 1 Gig download speed for $60 per month. (At 1 Gig you could download an HD movie in 2 to 3 seconds)

Yup...Google is doing that.


edit to add: Provo UT is the third city. Here's a link:

Google Fiber

You're naive if you think they're doing it just to cut costs. It goes back to the value of the personal information they can suck up. While the incumbent high-speed providers can get that data on you and your habits, it is worth a LOT more to G. Consider the actual cost of laying that fiber, implementing the PoP, etc. That's a lot of cost (even VZ has slowed down the FiOS deployment) - there will be a high return.

The motives are NOT altruistic.

I know a lot about the business model. At some point Google's actions may well become anti-trust bait, just like ATT, Standard Oil, etc.

 

[slinger]

I never file a flight plan anymore. With FlightFollowing.com and FlightAware.com an honest man doesn't stand a chance.
We have a subject that stalks the local airport, with a history of writing in the most damning ways.
I am fearful of this subject knowing how long I will be away from my home/business for fear of theft.
The "authorities can't/won't do anything until "a law is broken".

 

[Captain]

Maybe, but you're off on the motive.

What motivates Google is this: 'What's good for the internet is good for Google'.

Line that up with the ISP's and notice they are not motivated the same.

 

[Captain]

BTW, the fiber, for the most part is there now. But it's not lit up. Why isn't it? Because of your ISP's refuse to. Keeps cost high.

Don't call me naive. That's a discussion killer right there.

 

[RJM62]

Maybe, but you're off on the motive.

What motivates Google is this: 'What's good for the internet is good for Google'.

Line that up with the ISP's and notice they are not motivated the same.

Captain, please. I'm about to reach for a barf bag.

-Rich

 

[Captain]

Barf away. It's true.

I'm not here to change anybodies mind. I've listed many many links to none from any of you. Ya'll go believe whatever you want. Makes no difference to me. Take the reverse highspeed while you're at it. Again, makes no difference to me.

 

[RJM62]

Your Garmin is a dedicated device and does not need to share resources with a phone, a calendar, a calculator, email, music and player, web browser, camera, angry birds, weather app, etc.

Also, your Garmin does not have the detail (roads, traffic, satellite, bike paths, footpaths,) that a phone does. My Nexus 4 will show me my house to where I can make out my mailbox.

Speaking of 'money from data plans'...any idea who is turning the Internet Provider industry on it's ear by offering it's own service in 3 major markets? Kansas City, Austin, and I forget the third...Utah somewhere I think. This company thinks the Service Providers for years has been ripping off the American consumer by charging WAY too much for limited bandwidth. They are lighting up the fiber in those three markets providing 1 Gig download speed for $60 per month. (At 1 Gig you could download an HD movie in 2 to 3 seconds)

Yup...Google is doing that.


edit to add: Provo UT is the third city. Here's a link:

Google Fiber

I wouldn't take it for free. I'll keep paying my local telco (local as in I've walked to their office and had coffee with them) for Internet service. Presently, I pay ~ $85.00/month for business-class cable Internet, 10 Mbps down / 2 Mbps up, with a 750 GB/month cap.

Maybe they're ripping me off at those rates, but that's fine. I'd rather be ripped off than dissected and sold in pieces to the highest bidders.

-Rich

 

[wsuffa]

Maybe, but you're off on the motive.

What motivates Google is this: 'What's good for the internet is good for Google'.

Line that up with the ISP's and notice they are not motivated the same.

That's not even close to true. What's good for Google is good for Google. And what's good for Google is not necessarily good for the internet.

BTW, the fiber, for the most part is there now. But it's not lit up. Why isn't it? Because of your ISP's refuse to. Keeps cost high.

Don't call me naive. That's a discussion killer right there.

The fiber that's there is not lit up because fiber was overbuilt. It's a sunk cost. Don't you think that the folks that invested in it would want to recover what they could by selling it, even if they sold at a loss?

BTW, what Google is doing is installing new, local fiber - they are not lighting dark fiber. It is NOT cheap. They are doing what VZ did with FiOS.

And yes, you are naïve if you believe that Google is being altruistic - the fiber service will be subsidized by the "big data" collected & sold to others. The business model is based on personal data collection, intimately characterizing individuals, then using the personal data to sell to others. It will also be used to determine what you see.

Look at "free" radio and TV and you will see what the model is all about, only google will be much, much more personal... it'll be hard for you to change stations if you are able to at all.

 

[EdFred]

"Hey, Google, this is DHS, we're gonna need all that info on that Captain guy."