Police In-Different on Laser Incidents?

ARFlyer

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Last night was my first GA Laser Incident. While doing some night flying the cockpit lit up in a brilliant deep blue multiple times. I looked outside to see someone walking in the woods behind a house throwing a blue laser around. I reported the incident, while circling the dude's house, and was told by Center that police had been called. Once I got on the ground I called the sheriff dept to follow up on the report. I got a cold "we're looking into it please don't call us again about this" response from them. I told them I knew the exact house which got me a second "we're looking into it" response.

WTF? Do they not know it's a federal felony? The few times I've reported lasers in NYC the place was swarming with police shortly afterwards.
 
Last night was my first GA Laser Incident. While doing some night flying the cockpit lit up in a brilliant deep blue multiple times. I looked outside to see someone walking in the woods behind a house throwing a blue laser around. I reported the incident, while circling the dude's house, and was told by Center that police had been called. Once I got on the ground I called the sheriff dept to follow up on the report. I got a cold "we're looking into it please don't call us again about this" response from them. I told them I knew the exact house which got me a second "we're looking into it" response.

WTF? Do they not know it's a federal felony? The few times I've reported lasers in NYC the place was swarming with police shortly afterwards.

Wait, what? Your first sentence said my first GA laser incident. Your last sentence said the few times i've reported. :D
 
Wait, what? Your first sentence said my first GA laser incident. Your last sentence said the few times i've reported. :D

Typo, to early in the morning.... My last two were with the airline and I couldn't make out the location. Just a laser in area XYZ. Both times New York Approach was on it like crazy. After a few more aircraft they can narrow it down to a few houses.
 
There was a laser incident when I was flying last year. It was a helicopter that got tagged and immediately let tower know. Tower called the police and within 10 minutes they found the moron that did it.
 
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Do they not know it's a federal felony?

Is there another kind? ;)

Tag the police helicopter, I guarantee they'll care.

Tag anyone else, your bet is as good as anyone else's as to whether they'll give a damn.

ATC around here will issue a NOTAM. That's about all you can count on for sure in most places.

Anything else is pretty much a crap shoot.
 
Basically comes down to how competent the local police are. Around NYC I've heard they take this sort of thing very seriously and quickly dispatch helicopters with fancy cameras to hunt down these morons. Elsewhere it might be treated like the OP described... don't bother us, the doughnut shop just put out a fresh batch.
 
Basically comes down to how competent the local police are. Around NYC I've heard they take this sort of thing very seriously and quickly dispatch helicopters with fancy cameras to hunt down these morons. Elsewhere it might be treated like the OP described... don't bother us, the doughnut shop just put out a fresh batch.

Competent or just heavily funded and bored and staffed twenty deep, versus staffed with one officer to cover 1000 square miles or more by themselves?
 
Basically comes down to how competent the local police are. Around NYC I've heard they take this sort of thing very seriously and quickly dispatch helicopters with fancy cameras to hunt down these morons. Elsewhere it might be treated like the OP described... don't bother us, the doughnut shop just put out a fresh batch.
Competent or just heavily funded and bored and staffed twenty deep, versus staffed with one officer to cover 1000 square miles or more by themselves?
You both are right...in my town we take it seriously, but at times the department is too burdened with other calls to do anything about it. We do frequently get calls like this, as the city is on the approach path for DTW. We even occasionally get calls to look for drones flying in the approach, which always amazes me since the DTW approach over the city is at about 6000 msl.
 
Some local police do not care about federal offenses, because they can't do much about them and/or because they have had bad experiences with federal law enforcement in the past. Maybe they picked up an illegal immigrant trafficking drugs and were told they were too far from an ICE/CBP agent so just let the guy go, so they resent it when the feds call for their help. Or maybe they just figure they can't enforce the federal law so why bother responding to a violation of it?

Do you live in the county where this happened? Talk to the Sheriff about it. Most rural sheriffs care about their constituents at least a little bit.
 
Why would they care?

It's airplane stuff, which is complicated and not something they understand, it makes them feel stupid...der

It doesn't make them money like DUIs or traffic tickets

It requires them to actually do something they HATE, and that's real police work

It requires them exiting their climate controlled seat

They still get paid the same if the don't look into it.


Remeber they are there to protect and serve...themselves
 
Why would they care?

It's airplane stuff, which is complicated and not something they understand, it makes them feel stupid...der

It doesn't make them money like DUIs or traffic tickets

It requires them to actually do something they HATE, and that's real police work

It requires them exiting their climate controlled seat

They still get paid the same if the don't look into it.


Remeber they are there to protect and serve...themselves
James, I'll excuse your extreme ignorance (der) and assume you don't like police because you can't take personal responsibility for a ticket you received...
Otherwise, the department I work for has several police officers / detectives that are also pilots...(der)...a couple that hold law degrees...(der)...a couple with doctorates (der) and nearly all that enjoy doing their job, which is catching people that are doing bad things to others.
 
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James, I'll excuse your extreme ignorance (der) and assume you don't like police because you can't take personal responsibility for a ticket you received...
Otherwise, the department I work for has several police officers / detectives that are also pilots...(der)...a couple that hold law degrees...(der)...and nearly all that enjoy doing their job, which is catching people that are doing bad things to others.

Nope

I've gotten a few BS tickets, whatever, 9mph over = 300 bucks, yeah, all about "saftey" and "the children" but thsts not my issue with LE.

The issue I have is the zero chits given to when my home was broken into, or when the old work hanger was broken into, "here's you're report, bye" My car also was in a hit and run in a parking lot, to the point I couldn't even open the door anymore, cops didn't even ask the merchant who's parking lot it occurred in for his video footage from the lot, "duhhh here your report, gotta go". Frankly I have toilet paper at the house, keep your worthless paperwork and do your damn job sir, you know police work, even if it doesn't involve you making money.
 
James, I'll excuse your extreme ignorance (der) and assume you don't like police because you can't take personal responsibility for a ticket you received...
Otherwise, the department I work for has several police officers / detectives that are also pilots...(der)...a couple that hold law degrees...(der)...and nearly all that enjoy doing their job, which is catching people that are doing bad things to others.

Every department has folks who enjoy the job and folks who hate it. Saw that personally when I worked Sheriff's dispatch in a tiny department.

Have seen departments that serve themselves first, and departments that serve the public first, too. Let's not pretend both types aren't the norm. Most of that comes directly from the goals and character of the leadership.

And some leadership plays a nice game but really is out for themselves, too. That's how my old county ended up locking up the Sheriff who was so "beloved" they named the new jail after him while he was still in office, inside his own jail, for hard drug and sex crimes, and suspected of being involved in someone's decision to commit suicide rather than take on the "beloved" Sheriff. They couldn't find evidence he murdered, but his power and position meant he didn't have to. He simply threatened and the scared individual who decided to engage with him in drugs and sex, took care of it for him.

No department is as rosy as it would like to believe. Most are middle of the road in usefulness and effectiveness (which is quite good but still puts them square in the mediocre middle of the standard bell curve), and a few are downright awful.

I'm generally a fan of the police. I'm all for significantly higher pay, mandatory education levels, and removal of the liability protections afforded government workers. Pay high enough they can all afford similar levels of malpractice insurance as our Docs buy, and let the market and the insurers come up with insurability requirements for people who carry and may wield deadly force.

Same as Docs, pilots, etc. No playing outside of the personal liability rules for negligence and gross negligence, and a paycheck that affords some really good insurance.

Once you're so bad you become uninsurable, it doesn't matter how many people like you or crony job offers you get, you're out of the biz. Too dangerous to insure, you're done.

Would keep stuff like the guy who has had $1.2M worth of taxpayer funds used in his defense of a multitude of excessive force cases, all settled for "undisclosed sums" with taxpayer money. Actuary table would say, "This job doesn't appear to be something you're worth insuring for anymore... trash collector or fast food manager might be more up your alley..."

Take the monkey off the back of the taxpayer who has to pay for both their lawsuit and the defense against their own lawsuit. A major problem with personal liability removal.

But the public would have to pay and pay well for the job, so I don't see it happening.
 
Sadly based on my experience, I'd eliminate 50% of police positions, and make a matrix between complaint reports and closed crimes, crimes as in INVOLVING VICTIMS, once that gets out of wack, warning, second time termination and you don't get to take any of those kush benifits or pensions with you, maybe like a dishonorable discharge so they also will not be eligible for ANY government job after that.

Lately, the police have been their worst enemy and are to blame for what they have been going through. The good cops better start policing their own, and pushing the crap out of their departments, because the public is really getting sick of their antics.
 
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Its probably all that good pay, weekends and holidays off to spend with you families, safe working environment, etc, that attracts all these lazy law enforcement public servants. I see your point.
 
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I turned on my handheld radio at the home the other night after getting it back from being repaired. It just happened to be on the local approach frequency and I heard a pilot reporting a laser strike. The CHP fixed wing was nearby and attempted to locate the source of the laser by orbiting above the reporting plane for quite a while. The reporting plane left the area and the CHP plane was still looking when I turned off my radio.

In reply to James. I've worked for the largest state law enforcement agency for 15 years. When the department was formed 87 years ago the decision was made to separate ticket revenue from the department's budget. In other words, my agency makes no money from the tickets that are written. Our budget comes from road tax, vehicle registration, etc. Also, don't forget cops are still the good guys. I've witnessed so many acts of kindness displayed by cops to strangers I'd have to start a new thread. Unfortunately that kind of stuff rarely makes the news. Bad cops are out there just like bad pilots are too. Most cops I know choose law enforcement as a career because of a strong desire to help people. Pay, benifits and a decent retirement don't hurt either but that's already changing for the worse. New hires in my agency are in a different retirement structure than I am.


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Its probably all that good pay, weekends and holidays off to spend with you families, safe working environment, etc, that attracts all these lazy law enforcement public servants. I see your point.

Compared to the average takehome income in my community, they are paid quite well for the level of education their job requires for admission, also many smaller communities are being crippled by excessive benifits and pensions government workers like police collect, it's not sustainable in many parts of the nation.

As far as safe working environment, lots of other jobs have it far worse, with less pay and bennies, my industry, I believe, has a higher risk factor.

Not knocking the good cops, but they need to publicly stand up against the bad ones, tell their John Wayne co workers to stand down sometimes, push for a stop to civil forfeiture/aka road side theift, for profit policing, and make a effort to solve crimes, not just document them.

Sadly that's not what I see in my community, and I vote against any police funding or benifits because of that, and juries are starting to have a different initial view of police now too.

Look around, the public is rapidly loosing faith and respect for police, I look at the police when I was a kid and compare it to now, it's quite different, and not recognizable from my parents time, even if the police don't care to do it for the public, they just do it for themselves, there will be changes made with the way things are going, the police can be a part of that chance or the people will make it for them, but the citizens are growing tired of what's been going on.
 
Too many friends and family who are/were cops to badmouth them. Sounds like more than a few of you should schedule a ride-along with one; that way you would figure out that a laser event (even if it IS a felony) takes a back seat to many other calls they may be assigned. The last laser incident I witnessed was while I was working in the tower and the offender/s lasered the police helicopter. Took about 3 minutes until the guy was apprehended.
 
Too many friends and family who are/were cops to badmouth them. Sounds like more than a few of you should schedule a ride-along with one; that way you would figure out that a laser event (even if it IS a felony) takes a back seat to many other calls they may be assigned. The last laser incident I witnessed was while I was working in the tower and the offender/s lasered the police helicopter. Took about 3 minutes until the guy was apprehended.

Case and point, laser my commercial flight and they'll "get on it" laser and PD chopper and all hell breaks loose.

I got a few friends who are cops, and some quasi cops (police powers but more woodsy) and all of them went huge fans of the tactical John Wayne's ether.

We are quite cautions in my industry, but with some of the reputation we got in he past, we have zero tolerance for coyboy crap, and you will be crusified right quick by your own coworkers if you try to do dangerous "getthereitis" crap.

Sorry for getting off tangent on this topic, I'll let it be, but the major policing the police need to do is within their own company.
 
To make a point about the good cops calling out the bad ones. Believe me, that stuff happens. It may not happen over night but eventually it catches up with them. I personally know guys from three different agencies who lost their jobs, a couple over stuff that would just get a chuckle in almost any other occupation. The good cops really don't like the knucklehead cops bringing down the profession.

Regarding "people" being fed up with law enforcement. I believe social media presents a false image of the public's opinion of law enforcement. In recent months I've had lots of people approach me while in uniform to thank me for my service. People dropping off goodies at the station, etc. Way more show of support than even immediately after 9/11. Perhaps it's just my area but if I turned off Facebook and the news I'd be none the wiser.


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Compared to the average takehome income in my community, they are paid quite well for the level of education their job requires for admission....

So I took the liberty of researching "your community", and since the average household income is $27k, I will have to say you are right in this regard.

...I got a few friends who are cops...

Now that's the funniest thing I've heard in awhile.
 
The good cops OFTEN and VIGOROUSLY out the bad ones. How do you think the vast majority of the bad ones get fired/prosecuted? Magic?

But the problem is that much of the general population doesn't understand a world in which you get tenths of a second to decide if you're going to continue living or not today, whereas other cops do. That's why the reasonableness standard is what another peace officer would consider reasonable. It isn't covering for a bad cop... it is other cops knowing what it is like to be in those pair of boots.

I don't know what industry the rest of you work in, but I do know in a line of work like crab fishing, you don't have to worry about a crab following you home and murdering you in your driveway. Nor will a tree consciously seek you out and ambush you because you're a lumberjack.
 
The good cops OFTEN and VIGOROUSLY out the bad ones. How do you think the vast majority of the bad ones get fired/prosecuted? Magic?

But the problem is that much of the general population doesn't understand a world in which you get tenths of a second to decide if you're going to continue living or not today, whereas other cops do. That's why the reasonableness standard is what another peace officer would consider reasonable. It isn't covering for a bad cop... it is other cops knowing what it is like to be in those pair of boots.

I don't know what industry the rest of you work in, but I do know in a line of work like crab fishing, you don't have to worry about a crab following you home and murdering you in your driveway. Nor will a tree consciously seek you out and ambush you because you're a lumberjack.

They indeed do. I know of a situation where a substation commander came to work high on drugs. He was outed and fired by the end of the day.
 
...

Look around, the public is rapidly loosing faith and respect for police, I look at the police when I was a kid and compare it to now, it's quite different, and not recognizable from my parents time, even if the police don't care to do it for the public, they just do it for themselves, there will be changes made with the way things are going, the police can be a part of that chance or the people will make it for them, but the citizens are growing tired of what's been going on.

Because most people are mindless sheep that believe everything the see on the news, embrace everything they read on the internet, and make snap decisions based on a headline or a comment on a post.

Few people bother with the facts anymore. Or accept personal responsibility. So many people are a victim when it's convenient for them to be one.
 
Because most people are mindless sheep that believe everything the see on the news, embrace everything they read on the internet, and make snap decisions based on a headline or a comment on a post.

Few people bother with the facts anymore. Or accept personal responsibility. So many people are a victim when it's convenient for them to be one.
It's simpler than that. People see what they expect to see. An honest man will trust you, a pathological liar won't. Die-hard Democrats think Trump lies every time he opens his mouth and die-hard Republicans think Clinton does. And a person who believes all cops are out to murder black people will see that motive behind every police use of deadly force. Truth is often nothing more than perception.

And that brings us full circle. The cops who didn't investigate the laser incident that started this thread probably see laser incidents through a perspective either of "there's nothing we can do about the federal offense" or of "who cares about some kids playing with a little laser pointer?" If you want them to change their response, you have to start by helping them change their perspective--or, since people don't actually change, at least show them how a different response will fit into their existing world view.
 
And that brings us full circle. The cops who didn't investigate the laser incident that started this thread probably see laser incidents through a perspective either of "there's nothing we can do about the federal offense" or of "who cares about some kids playing with a little laser pointer?" If you want them to change their response, you have to start by helping them change their perspective--or, since people don't actually change, at least show them how a different response will fit into their existing world view.

Never met any cops who wanted their "world view" changed or who didn't know a laser event is illegal. You make it sound like we need a weekend with a Ted speech to explain this. Good luck getting attendees.
 
Never met any cops who wanted their "world view" changed or who didn't know a laser event is illegal. You make it sound like we need a weekend with a Ted speech to explain this. Good luck getting attendees.
That was more or less my point.
 
That was more or less my point.

Didn't come across that way. Sounded like you were suggesting anyone in any particular department would magically give a crap about laser stuff if only someone would rush to educate them about it all. LOL.
 
Didn't come across that way. Sounded like you were suggesting anyone in any particular department would magically give a crap about laser stuff if only someone would rush to educate them about it all. LOL.
Nope. Sorry for the confusion. I meant to suggest that they would give a crap if they gave a crap. There are some viewpoints that result from misunderstandings that can be corrected. But that's the exception, not the rule.
 
Because most people are mindless sheep that believe everything the see on the news, embrace everything they read on the internet, and make snap decisions based on a headline or a comment on a post.

Few people bother with the facts anymore. Or accept personal responsibility. So many people are a victim when it's convenient for them to be one.

When is it convenient to be a victim?

Having thousands upon thousands in pool pumps stolen wasn't very "convenient".

Having the police not even willing to break a sweat to help, also not convenient.

But turn right on a no turn on red light, and that cop is Johnny on the spot.


Again, there are some great cops, but in my experience (I don't even have cable, so not according to the news) they are sadly a minority, too many law enforcers, not enough peace keepers.
 
Never met any cops who wanted their "world view" changed or who didn't know a laser event is illegal. You make it sound like we need a weekend with a Ted speech to explain this. Good luck getting attendees.
Haven't met many people in general that want their world view changed. If the human brain liked change, cognitive dissonance wouldn't be its default reaction to new information.
 
Because most people are mindless sheep that believe everything the see on the news, embrace everything they read on the internet, and make snap decisions based on a headline or a comment on a post.
If people believed everything they read on the internet, they would be very confused. I think what really happens is that people believe everything they read on the internet that aligns with the world view they already have. The rest is crap.
 
People just want some consistency between their expectations/beliefs and reality. It makes them feel more comfortable which is preferable to discomfort. Of course this results in a certain level of intellectual dishonesty but to many it is a better choice than modifying their belief system which equates to admitting they have been wrong.
 
Was at Tucson on the ground listening to tower. Laser strikes were reported. A minute later the Tucson PD helicopter was airborne. They found the guy easily since he lased them too and then ran inside a house.
 
Was at Tucson on the ground listening to tower. Laser strikes were reported. A minute later the Tucson PD helicopter was airborne. They found the guy easily since he lased them too and then ran inside a house.
DaffyDuck.jpg
 
Here's the deal. Police believe that they are in danger every day of being killed by John Q Public (evidence to the contrary, showing how safe their profession is is disregarded).

Similarly, many people feel they are a simple belt adjustment away from being murdered by a rogue cop. Truth told, that's not likely either.

The problem, however, is that both perceptions are wrong, but only one mistaken perception is going to lead to the death of an innocent man in much greater numbers than the other (I.e., thinking I'm going to be killed by a cop for sport isn't putting the cop in danger, but Barney Fife thinking I may be a threat to him is putting me in danger).

So the answer is to remove the danger. Educate cops to one of two options:

1. You voluntarily took a job that may put you in harm's way some day. If you don't like that, find another job.
2. Recognize that police work is among the more safe professions in the united States, and lumberjacks aren't killing people to feel safer.

We are in a scary cycle that only ends in revolution. Not good.
 
Here's the deal. Police believe that they are in danger every day of being killed by John Q Public (evidence to the contrary, showing how safe their profession is is disregarded).

*snip*

We are in a scary cycle that only ends in revolution. Not good.

To address the first line you wrote: If you focus on deaths, you're absolutely right. But that skips the 48,000+ officers who are assaulted in a given year. It ignores the nearly 14,000 officers that incur injuries as a result of those assaults. It ignores the 2,000 times police officers are shot at in a given year. Just because EACH of those shootings don't result in death, does that mean the profession is necessarily less dangerous? If you're a patrol officer, and you get shot in the chest and your vest saves your life, according to the "dangerous jobs" list, your job isn't THAT dangerous since you didn't die.

And to your second point: We live in a dangerous era where we have the perfect medium in which to communicate with only those that agree with our beliefs while tuning out anything that disagrees with our own preconceived narratives. It is a dangerous feedback loop which leads to increasing insularity among individual alarmist cliques.
 
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