Please Explain how the "add on" process works...

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
A local flying friend successfully completed her Multi Engine checkride last week. And she already holds her IFR and CPL-SEL tickets.

What is the process to add instrument and commercial to her multi engine ticket?

Oral examination and practical flying? How intense for the former and what maneuvers for the latter?
 
Hi Mike, I believe there is a task table in the ACS that shows what you have to do if you upgrade.

Offhand, I think she'll need to do all of the AMEL initial tasks (to commercial standards) and then 1-2 IR tasks (single engine approach).
 
Do you know why she opted not to just add a ME rating to her current commercial pilot certificate? From your post, I'm assuming she added it as PP rather than commercial which seems a bit odd to me. I keep adding ratings to my private pilot certificate because I don't have a commercial but if I had a commercial, I'd do a commercial checkride rather than a private for any add-on rating.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Do you know why she opted not to just add a ME rating to her current commercial pilot certificate? From your post, I'm assuming she added it as PP rather than commercial which seems a bit odd to me. I keep adding ratings to my private pilot certificate because I don't have a commercial but if I had a commercial, I'd do a commercial checkride rather than a private for any add-on rating.
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That.
 
She has PP, IA, and CP-SEL.

Last week's successful ride as CP-MEL. Not sure when/if Multi Private was done
 
AggieMike88 said:
She has PP, IA, and CP-SEL.

Last week's successful ride as CP-MEL. Not sure when/if Multi Private was done
Click to expand...

If she was CP-SEL or anything else, her initial multi would normally be a CP-MEL.

Heck my initial multi was a ATP MEL
 
AggieMike88 said:
A local flying friend successfully completed her Multi Engine checkride last week. And she already holds her IFR and CPL-SEL tickets.

What is the process to add instrument and commercial to her multi engine ticket?

Oral examination and practical flying? How intense for the former and what maneuvers for the latter?
Click to expand...

Are you positive she didn't do the Instrument portion required for her MEL too? The MEL should go onto her Comm certificate as she doesn't have a PPC, giving her a CPC-ASEL & MEL.

edit Missed where you say she has a PPC AND a CPC? Are you sure? That doesn't make sense, but then you are an Aggie! ;)
 
mscard88 said:
Are you positive she didn't do the Instrument portion required for her MEL too? The MEL should go onto her Comm certificate as she doesn't have a PPC, giving her a CPC-ASEL & MEL.

edit Missed where you say she has a PPC AND a CPC? Are you sure? That doesn't make sense, but then you are an Aggie! ;)
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It was our new member, @Christy Wong .... Hopefully she will see this Ping and answer your questions.
 
She should have completed the IFR maneuvers needed during her multi engine checkride. Do it all in one flight, a couple of approaches under the hood, shut down the to single engine and restart under the hood while holding heading and altitude. I believe the single engine approach can be done visual. Unless they changed it from when I did mine.
 
AggieMike88 said:
She has PP, IA, and CP-SEL.

Last week's successful ride as CP-MEL. Not sure when/if Multi Private was done
Click to expand...

You can't have both a private pilot certificate and a commercial pilot certificate, also you asked how to add commercial multi but you said above that was what her checkride was for that she has already taken; your posts are so confusing it's impossible to answer.
 
AggieMike88 said:
A local flying friend successfully completed her Multi Engine checkride last week. And she already holds her IFR and CPL-SEL tickets.

What is the process to add instrument and commercial to her multi engine ticket?

Oral examination and practical flying? How intense for the former and what maneuvers for the latter?
Click to expand...
As others indicate, you might have this confused. The most common sequence in the scenario you give is:
  1. Private pilot certificate, ASEL rating.
  2. Instrument airplane rating added to private certificate.
  3. Commercial pilot, ASEL (supersedes the private ASEL; instrument airplane rating carries over).
  4. Commercial AMEL (add-on AMEL rating to the commercial certificate).
In this sequence, the commercial multi checkride includes a single engine (one engine into) instrument approach. That accomplished, the Instrument airplane (note: "airplane" not "single engine airplane") effectively transfers over the instrument rating. Absent the single engine IAP, the certificate would have a limitation printed on it that the AMEL rating was limited to VFR (assuming the FAA still does that at all).

Of course, based on your question and follow-up comments, I can't tell if that's the case with Christy.
 
dmspilot said:
You can't have both a private pilot certificate and a commercial pilot certificate, also you asked how to add commercial multi but you said above that was what her checkride was for that she has already taken; your posts are so confusing it's impossible to answer.
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Yes you can have both, in fact you can a Private, Commercial and an ATP all at once.
I suspect the person in the first post doesn't have both though, read up on category and class.
 
You would actually hold a certificate of the highest level with a limitation of the lower level privileges only for another category and class.

Example: ATP MEL, Commercial privileges only SEL
 
Dave Theisen said:
You would actually hold a certificate of the highest level with a limitation of the lower level privileges only for another category and class.

Example: ATP MEL, Commercial privileges only SEL
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Yup, that's what my ATP says. Exactly.
 
champ driver said:
Yes you can have both, in fact you can a Private, Commercial and an ATP all at once.
I suspect the person in the first post doesn't have both though, read up on category and class.
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No you can't.

You can have, for example, a Commercial Pilot Certificate for Gliders with Private Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land (like @vontresc), but that is still a commercial pilot certificate.

It's also very common to see airline pilots with an Airline Transport Pilot - Airplane Multiengine Land certificate with Commercial Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land, but again, that is still an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.

You won't have more than one pilot certificate.
 
AggieMike88 said:
A local flying friend successfully completed her Multi Engine checkride last week. And she already holds her IFR and CPL-SEL tickets.

What is the process to add instrument and commercial to her multi engine ticket?

Oral examination and practical flying? How intense for the former and what maneuvers for the latter?
Click to expand...

AggieMike88 said:
She has PP, IA, and CP-SEL.

Last week's successful ride as CP-MEL. Not sure when/if Multi Private was done
Click to expand...

OK, since there's a bit of confusion here as to what cert level she had (You say "PP" and "CP-SEL" together - Can't be both), I went and looked her up:

CHRISTINA CAROLINE WONG
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT

Ratings:
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

Okay, now that we have that cleared up, there are three possible scenarios:

1) Most likely, she took a Commercial Pilot checkride for AMEL that included two approaches (one with all engines operating, one with an engine out), in which case that's all she has to do - Her new certificate will say Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single and Multiengine Land, Instrument Airplane.

2) In the event she did not do the approaches, she would get a certificate saying all of the above with the addition of "Multiengine limited to VFR only". In that case, adding the instrument requires taking a short checkride with the two approaches mentioned above to remove the limitation.

3) In the event that she only took a Private-level checkride for multi (highly unlikely, and it sounds like not the case) she would have a certificate saying the above with the limitation "Private Privileges Only: Airplane Multiengine Land" and would need an entirely new checkride at the Commercial Pilot level (to the Commercial PTS/ACS standards) to remove that limitation.

But, most likely she took the full CP-AMEL checkride including the approaches (scenario 1) and she has nothing left to do. A quick look at her temporary certificate should clear it up.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No you can't.

You can have, for example, a Commercial Pilot Certificate for Gliders with Private Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land (like @vontresc), but that is still a commercial pilot certificate.

It's also very common to see airline pilots with an Airline Transport Pilot - Airplane Multiengine Land certificate with Commercial Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land, but again, that is still an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.

You won't have more than one pilot certificate.
Click to expand...

Isn’t that what I said? :)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...
1) Most likely, she took a Commercial Pilot checkride for AMEL that included two approaches (one with all engines operating, one with an engine out), in which case that's all she has to do - Her new certificate will say Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single and Multiengine Land, Instrument Airplane.
...
Click to expand...
I'm only seeing one required approach in the ACS under X.D. Is there a requirement to do an approach with both engines operating?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No you can't.

You can have, for example, a Commercial Pilot Certificate for Gliders with Private Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land (like @vontresc), but that is still a commercial pilot certificate.

It's also very common to see airline pilots with an Airline Transport Pilot - Airplane Multiengine Land certificate with Commercial Privileges in Airplane Single Engine Land, but again, that is still an Airline Transport Pilot certificate.

You won't have more than one pilot certificate.
Click to expand...
...unless you also have a remote pilot certificate ;)
 
There is only 1 approach required to do the MEL add on, it is single engine simulated. There is the air work under the hood.
I don't believe they allow you to do MEL VFR only any more, if you have an instrument airplane rating already. Obviously you can if you skip the instrument rating before doing the multi add on.

There are no XC or other experience requirements needed before taking the checkride when doing the commercial MEL add on, just the 3 hours checkride prep. Of course you have to be able to perform every manuever and procedure to standard. Good luck getting all that done in a new plane in 3 hours dual, but I have seen people do it in 5 hours, more typically 10hrs. It really depends how proficient you are in complex airplanes and on approaches before you go into it.

You can burn a lot of time if you show up not instrument proficient.
 
Clip4 said:
No, you could have a commercial airplane and private glider.
Click to expand...
No, you can only have one pilot certificate. PERIOD. END OF STORY. You get a commercial, your PRIVATE is invalidated.
You will just have a restriction on the categories you didn't qualify for.
 
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