Planning for IR in 1-2yrs, suggestions?

1000RR

1000RR

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1000RR
I completed my PPL in mid-July, have about 160hrs right now and am really enjoying everything. Plenty of our flying will be flying to see our daughters in the SE, seeing places around the SE, and just enjoying ourselves as time moves on. I belong to a flying club and can get my IR through a handful of instructors we have but with just finishing my PPL, my time and money have other focuses right now and need a break from training. I am looking into purchasing a plane potentially in the next year or 2 and thought my approach would be to get my IR in it sometime after purchasing it. I'd like to hear from others that have gone before me (most all of you I imagine) and find out if this is a sound plan ( 1) getting it in my own plane, and 2) how big of deal it is to wait a couple years). I'd also like to hear from those that have been VFR only (no IR) and what kind of things snuck up on you during your [VFR] flights that were surprises you didn't think about during the planning for your VFR flight (that you would recommend to others to do so based on what you learned). In other words, aside from my own ADM to mitigate risks, what are some things you can share with a VFR pilot that might help them take into account additional considerations when planning some destination XC flights (400-800nm)?

Thanks in advance.
 
The key to XC flight (even IFR in light planes) is be flexible. For instance, we head to Oshkosh every year (700 NM). We plan to leave Tuesday before and return Monday after. We've had in th epast to delay our departure by a day (or two) and we've had to stop and spend a night in a hotel on the way back because of weather.

I'm a big fan of datalink weather. I've had XM in the plane since 2004 or so. Now with ADSB there's no reason not to get it as it's usually parasitically available with most of the solutions.

Always be prepared to head for an airport and either wait it out or find alternative means. I've let my plane places and rented cars a few times EVEN after I had my instrument rating.
 
1000RR said:
I completed my PPL in mid-July, have about 160hrs right now and am really enjoying everything. Plenty of our flying will be flying to see our daughters in the SE, seeing places around the SE, and just enjoying ourselves as time moves on. I belong to a flying club and can get my IR through a handful of instructors we have but with just finishing my PPL, my time and money have other focuses right now and need a break from training. I am looking into purchasing a plane potentially in the next year or 2 and thought my approach would be to get my IR in it sometime after purchasing it. I'd like to hear from others that have gone before me (most all of you I imagine) and find out if this is a sound plan ( 1) getting it in my own plane, and 2) how big of deal it is to wait a couple years). I'd also like to hear from those that have been VFR only (no IR) and what kind of things snuck up on you during your [VFR] flights that were surprises you didn't think about during the planning for your VFR flight (that you would recommend to others to do so based on what you learned). In other words, aside from my own ADM to mitigate risks, what are some things you can share with a VFR pilot that might help them take into account additional considerations when planning some destination XC flights (400-800nm)?

Thanks in advance.
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I went straight from PPL in rentals to IR in my own (new to me) plane with only a few months' pause. That worked well for me by keeping up the momentum, but obviously I can't comment on the opposite approach of waiting a few years.

I should add, though, that I enjoyed the instrument training much more than the PPL training. IFR just felt more natural and lower stress to me at the time, especially the days when I could do it in actual IMC. YMMV.

(I learned to appreciate the joy of VFR, following rivers/roads, and uncontrolled airports much later.)
 
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Go out and fly! Enjoy the time, get as much controlled airspace in and get comfy with that
 
I think getting the rating in your own plane is a good idea. That is likely what you will be flying. When I trained, I was renting and every time I had to switch airplanes (a fair bit), I had to learn the new airplane.

As far as waiting, not a bad idea at all.
 
I went the other way; I waited to buy a plane until I had my instrument done. Largely because as a low time pilot I knew insurance would be really expensive and having the IR helps that a lot. It also allowed me to concentrate on training without worrying about airplane MX. Buying and owning a plane is about like getting a rating on its own.

Get flight following everywhere you go, and practice holding altitude and heading to ACS standards. Getting used to those things will help immensely when you start your IR.

The thing that always snuck up on me doing vfr xc was clouds. There's always more clouds. As mentioned above be flexible and you can make good use of a plane. It won't take long though for you to want to knock it out if you fly a lot of xc. Our first trip to FL from IL convinced me to get it done asap. I thought I'd wait a couple years, but I ended up getting it less than a year after my ppl. It's super frustrating to be sitting on the ground due to a benign cloud layer, or bouncing and sweating along knowing that if you could climb above the clouds, you'd have cool, smooth air.
 
Jim K has the exact instruction that my PPL CFI gave me when I passed the check ride.

"You plan to fly cross country, long distances, you will need the rating, fly every hour from now on to IFR standards, and when you seriously start the training, it will be a breeze"

Absolutely true. In addition, I transitioned to the instrument approaches inbound at towered fields, and flew the ILS or whatever precision approach they had for my direction of travel. My wife has eagle eyes, and watched for traffic while I paid primary attention inside the cockpit. In controlled airspace that is relatively safe to do.

Non tower airports, fly whatever approach they have, but keep the head on a swivel. The goal is to be comfortable with the sequences of events.

My wife also "nagged me on variations of CDI, HDG, and ALT." in a friendly way. As I had requested. She had passed a Commercial ground school, and understood what flying was all about.

Try to stay relaxed while you keep to high standards, it can be done if your scan is efficient.

3 months and 20 days of part time lessons gave me the rating.
 
Jim K said:
I went the other way; I waited to buy a plane until I had my instrument done. Largely because as a low time pilot I knew insurance would be really expensive and having the IR helps that a lot. It also allowed me to concentrate on training without worrying about airplane MX. Buying and owning a plane is about like getting a rating on its own.
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For me (in Canada), the insurance saving from getting my instrument rating as a low-time pilot (in 2003) was minuscule. It's hard to be precise because my broker goes out and gets new quotes from multiple companies every year that I renew, but it can't have been more than 5%, and probably less.
 
You seem to have your mission well defined so that will help a lot in choosing your IFR airplane. I think you can buy the plane now or in a couple of years, whatever fits. A heated prop, windshield/hot plate and boots or weeping wing are great if you can afford them and need them; I'd for sure opt for a heated pitot tube. Two radios is almost vital in flying serious single-pilot IFR, I think (of course, many of us have done it with one radio but it's more work and more distracting to constantly change frequencies rather than just receivers - one often wants to listen to ATC, ATIS, and CTAF - not all simultaneously of course - so needs more than jusnt an active and stand-by frequency). An IFR airplane will have ADSB out and you want IN as well, of course. These new glass panels are not essential, but having flown both I find they give you more information and better situational awareness. Single-pilot IFR is nothing to blow off lightly, especially if you spend much time in weather or flying solid.

As some have said, changing planes while learning IFR can be distracting, but it does offer one the chance and the necessity to learn many IFR systems. I'd rather stay with one, but if you have to change then make a virtue of it.

Fly to IFR standards is excellent advice. Use the ATC system so you're used to it. Hone your hand flying skills, especially trim. Not just straight and level, although many can't do that, but also constant rate climbs and descents at appropriate flap settings. I've spent several hours on many new IFR students because they couldn't trim. If you can't/don't trim, you can not hand fly IFR, in my opinion.

Get someone who really knows how to teach scan. It's not intuitive and can be learned/refined. It is a life saver.

A spouse who is knowledgeable is a good asset, as has been mentioned. If all they do is provide a separate set of eyes and ears and are not actively involved that is a great help. Of course, that doesn't do much while you are in the learning phase.

Just my prejudices and I make no claim they are the best or only.
 
Thanks for everyone's input so far, much appreciated for sure! Being in Florida, I've definitely experienced VFR challenges with clouds and storms and continually am looking for Plan B's, C's, and even D's both in flight planning and during the flight. I always am trying to get flight following for all my XC's... although sometimes their demand is high and they're not taking on VFR. In those cases I dial up the approach frequencies on the route I'm on and listen. That's helped me divert around some storms as well as some awareness of traffic where I could hear ATC referencing my altitude.

I will see how those longer XC's go and maybe I get frustrated enough I'll start IR sooner. I also plan to make a trip (at least 1) to the Bahamas... there are plenty worse places to be held over if weather coming back doesn't work out
 
Get Flight Following on every flight that goes some distance. It gets you on the same frequency with IR folks and can help with what to expect from a communication standpoint a bit. Even simple stuff, like changing frequencies, gets easier with repetition and anticipating what's coming next.
 
Getting on flight following is easier away from major traffic centers.

Ask again half an hour into the flight.

Listen to ATC center frequencies enroute, they can be found on the Low Altitude Instrument Charts, known as the L charts. Those are the guys and gals that you call up after you leave the big airport. They are usually not as busy as approach and departure controllers.

Just my experience over the years, varies with region.
 
Here, where I'm at in Florida if I head North I pick up Orlando Approach for FF. They're 50/50 if they will pick you up. As I go further North, I pick up Daytona Approach. Then Jax... but Jax is often too busy it seems. If I head South, Palm Beach Approach is who I contact and they're pretty good about picking me up. On the West side, Tampa is 50/50 and usually I just wait till I'm a little further S/SE and pick up Ft. Meyers Approach. I get FF every XV if they're able.
 
I was VFR for far too long, in rentals.

My wife and I sweated weather as I tried to give predictability to our travel schedules and often couldn’t do it. So many planned trips that got tossed because of the chances of IMC conditions.

A few years ago, I finally knocked out my ticket in a rented 172.

Almost immediately after, bought the T-Lance.

I have no regrets getting my IR in the 172.

Now, trips are far more likely to launch and while we work to avoid get-there-itis, our ability to do what we planned is far more solid.
 
Rgbeard said:
I have no regrets getting my IR in the 172.
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Agreed...I meant to expand on that. A lot of people seem to get wrapped around the axle about "training in the plane they're going to fly". I say that's silly. The rating is about how to read the charts, how to communicate, and how to follow the rules. The plane is very secondary. In fact I'd say doing it in something more basic is a good thing. If you can hand fly an approach with a cdi and a precessing vacuum dg, you can do it with an ehsi & autopilot, I promise.

When you buy, your insurance will require 10-25 hours time in type. Spend a couple of those hours with your cfii learning the new equipment, and you'll have no issues.
 
I did what you’re thinking of.

Got my PPL, then didn’t fly enough due to difficulty with rental planning and no clubs, so decided I’d either buy or hang it up due to difficulty maintaining proficiency in rentals.

Bought a plane about a year after my PPL. Flew for 2 years VFR. I wasn’t one to just bore holes, so much of my flying was destinations, XCs. I got tired of canceling VFR flights due to marginal VFR weather. Again, it was either stay VFR and give up utility...so might as well sell...or get my IR and launch on days that were iffy VFR but easy-peasy IFR.

I started my training when the VFR weather season was starting to wane. Kept the plane flying and kept my hours up.

I got my IR about 9 months ago and it’s paid off in less cancelled trips.
 
Wait for the back Friday deal to get the King course for the IR. Can start early on it.
 
Your own plane, or rental, doesn’t matter much (it was cheaper though in my own plane). Wait, or not, I don’t think matters much either…I waited 24 years. I found it ridiculously easy, but also downright boring and tedious, maybe because I waited idk.
Oh, and the rating didn’t save me so much as a penny on insurance.
 
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Got my PPL in 2015 and still a VFR pilot with low 300 hours but have been working on and off on IFR training. Only one VFR flight was impacted by conditions requiring a 5 hour wait on the ground. Here in the mountain west things are usually VFR, except for smoggy or smoky days. I do want to get the IR to help me become a better pilot and allow flights when I may have canceled and chose to drive. I am just a hobby pilot though at this time.
 
Keep flying, talk to ATC, find a buddy to play safety pilot some.
 
1000RR said:
I'd like to hear from others that have gone before me (most all of you I imagine) and find out if this is a sound plan ( 1) getting it in my own plane, and 2) how big of deal it is to wait a couple years). I'd also like to hear from those that have been VFR only (no IR) and what kind of things snuck up on you during your [VFR] flights that were surprises you didn't think about during the planning for your VFR flight (that you would recommend to others to do so based on what you learned). In other words, aside from my own ADM to mitigate risks, what are some things you can share with a VFR pilot that might help them take into account additional considerations when planning some destination XC flights (400-800nm)?

Thanks in advance.
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No perfect answer as there are pros and cons both ways. Getting your IR in a "new to you" plane is a great way to learn the plane and get hours in it, which can be important for insurance if it's a new type/model for you. If you plan to travel 400-800 nm I would highly recommend getting your IR now. When I got my PPL I planned on waiting a year until starting my IR. I started it about a month an a half after my PPL checkride. We got cancelled a couple of times for a day trip with very benign weather. The second time I found a CFII before I left and set-up an IFR lesson later that day.

I track my hours in a spreadsheet. I went back and added formulas for track IFR vs VFR flights base on "Actual Instrument" time since getting my IR. I'm currently at 41.35% of my flights having actual IMC time. Now, that doesn't mean all 41.35% required an IR. It could have been a 4000' ceiling that I flew through. It could have been a scattered layer that I didn't bother dodging the clouds because I didn't have to. I can tell you that there would be many trips that would be significantly delayed or cancelled if I didn't have an IR. We actually had to wait in Pueblo earlier this year as I don't depart an airport if I can't get back in on an approach and it was 100' overcast. :eek: With the IR, and staying proficient, I fly as long as I can avoid thunderstorms, heavy rain or ice.

I find the IR highly useful in the US, especially in the southeast as we don't have as much icing conditions to worry about (under 12,000') as there are up north. In the winter time I don't pick up Angel Flight missions going north very far in advance as Cincinnati can easily have freezing conditions to the ground. In the summer time I'll pick them up a month or more in advance.
 
wayne said:
No perfect answer as there are pros and cons both ways. Getting your IR in a "new to you" plane is a great way to learn the plane and get hours in it, which can be important for insurance if it's a new type/model for you. If you plan to travel 400-800 nm I would highly recommend getting your IR now. When I got my PPL I planned on waiting a year until starting my IR. I started it about a month an a half after my PPL checkride. We got cancelled a couple of times for a day trip with very benign weather. The second time I found a CFII before I left and set-up an IFR lesson later that day.

I track my hours in a spreadsheet. I went back and added formulas for track IFR vs VFR flights base on "Actual Instrument" time since getting my IR. I'm currently at 41.35% of my flights having actual IMC time. Now, that doesn't mean all 41.35% required an IR. It could have been a 4000' ceiling that I flew through. It could have been a scattered layer that I didn't bother dodging the clouds because I didn't have to. I can tell you that there would be many trips that would be significantly delayed or cancelled if I didn't have an IR. We actually had to wait in Pueblo earlier this year as I don't depart an airport if I can't get back in on an approach and it was 100' overcast. :eek: With the IR, and staying proficient, I fly as long as I can avoid thunderstorms, heavy rain or ice.

I find the IR highly useful in the US, especially in the southeast as we don't have as much icing conditions to worry about (under 12,000') as there are up north. In the winter time I don't pick up Angel Flight missions going north very far in advance as Cincinnati can easily have freezing conditions to the ground. In the summer time I'll pick them up a month or more in advance.
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You made me wonder...
In the year I've had my IR
94 flights
57 XC- 61%
39 had some actual IMC
41% of flights <-- that's interesting
68% of XC's

There are a couple imc practice flights that weren't xc's that I didn't pull out, but it'd still be in the mid 60's. I'd say 90% of the xc's were flown under IFR. Even on a VMC day I prefer it... seems like there's always a cloud in the way somewhere, especially if you're going an hour+ from home.
 
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I got my PPL and took a year flying VFR, having a bit of fun. Then I started my IFR training (I'm now about 3/4 of the way through).

Taking a year of flying using F Following, etc. helped me solidify what I learned and avoided burning out on training. BTW - one of the IFR requirements is 50 hours of X Country. It's good to have that under your belt so you're not trying to get those hours and train IFR at the same time.

As a bonus, I now know what I need in a plane for IFR more than I did before I started instrument training. So I echo the previous comment about getting your IFR done and then get a plane.
 
My recommendations for you to prepare for your instrument training are,

1. Fly to new places. Flying the same, familiar airports again and again won't expand your experience nearly as much as flying to new destinations and to, or in, new regions. Quality flight experience over the next year or two will help prepare you for the instrument training.

2. Seek out interactions with ATC. Fly to many different towered airports. Use flight following whenever it is available and practice to do so. Being comfortable with working with, and talking to, ATC will make you instrument training easier.

3. Work on your radio technique. Read the communication section, Chapter 4, Section 2, of the AIM. Read Don Brown's SAy Again? series of articles from AvWeb. This is the link to the first, of 71, articles: https://www.avweb.com/features/say-again-1a-wing-and-a-prayer/

4. Read the AIM. You have a year or two to prepare so you can take it in small bites. You will be amazed at what you learn. Make sure to learn generally what's in there and how to find it. Being able to quickly look up the answers to questions in the AIM will serve you well in instrument training.

5. When you fly, make an effort to fly smoothly and precisely. Don't accept sloppiness. The habits you build will be important when you start your instrument training.
 
I think there is some benefit in getting your first 100-200 hours behind you before starting instrument training, assuming you spend those hours traveling somewhere, even if it is only 100 mile runs for lunch or donuts. But try to do a few longer trips. The point of this is to fly to new places, work with ATC, and do the necessary flight planning and weather analysis. During these trips, you will encounter weather, and have to make enroute decisions. And you should work with ATC on every XC flight to gain experience working within the system. All this experience will be invaluable when you start your IR, plus, hopefully, you will be beyond your "stupid" phase (partly in jest, partly serious) where you might take unnecessary and unwise risks. I've seen too many GA accidents with pilots under the 100 hour mark, and I was overconfident in those first 100 hours, too. But the experience I gained flying VFR in real weather was invaluable. The more hours I got, the more conservative I became. I started the IR after 400 hours (probably should have started about 200 hours sooner), after one too many bumpy XC flights under a low but ample VFR broken to overcast deck while realizing it would be clear and smooth above. What the IR will do for you in a light single is take all the stress and indecision out of MVFR XC flight in benign weather. But you will still get stymied by weather on occasion, just a little less often than if VFR-only. The IR also simplifies flight into and through class B airspace, as well as into the DCA SFRA. When I was commuting to GAI when I was working at NIH, getting in and out of the SFRA smoothly was worth the price of the IR alone.
 
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