Planning 3000 mile week long flying vacation

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skynewbie

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Hi folks,

Last year I got my ticket and have been flying simple local XC flights. Now I'm planning my longest trip yet from Palo Alto, California in the Bay Area to New Mexico then up north to Washington state and south from Seattle back to Palo Alto. I'm flying a 182 for the trip which has a nice Garmin 750 panel stack and I'm bringing my iPad mini with Foreflight and a portable Garmin 696 GPS with XM weather for backup. Flying the 3000 route over course of 5 days and looking for good VFR routes and tips to fly this trip. I can add few extra days cushion to account for unexpected weather conditions since I'm still VFR pilot. Initially I was going to do this trip in the club Piper Arrow but the 182 is way more comfortable for longer trip and has better avionics. I noticed tons of MOAs and restricted airspace between Southern California, Arizona and New Mexico so that's one challenge as well as navigating around high terrain.

Thanks
Ben
 
600 miles a day in a straight leg 182? Are you sure that's a good idea? That's about 5 hours, more than I'd do in one shot. 182s aren't THAT fast, unless you get into turbocharged retractibles.

Do it early in the morning, or you'll get your teeth knocked out, especially over the desert.

Who has a 182 with a 750 for rent locally? Best I've seen is a 182Q with 430, but it's in Watsonville. Well, and CAP488 (182T with a G1000), but you're not CAP and they don't like flights out of state anyway.
 
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600 miles is less than 5 hours, or 2 X 2.5 legs, pretty doable in a 182 at 130-135 knots. I've done 9 hours in a 182 before BOSE headsets, but I wasn't going anywhere the next day! :mad2: :D It is a pretty ambitious trip for a first long cross country, I'd maybe take another pilot, or shorten it up a bit. Having extra days will take some pressure off, just don't be afraid to land somewhere and regroup if you need to! :D

MAKG1 said:
600 miles a day in a straight leg 182? Are you sure that's a good idea? That's about 5 hours, more than I'd do in one shot. 182s aren't THAT fast, unless you get into turbocharged retractibles.

Do it early in the morning, or you'll get your teeth knocked out, especially over the desert.

Who has a 182 with a 750 for rent locally? Best I've seen is a 182Q with 430, but it's in Watsonville. Well, and CAP488 (182T with a G1000), but you're not CAP and they don't like flights out of state anyway.
Click to expand...
 
Have fun, Ben. I am interested in why you feel the 182 is more comfortable than the Arrow?
 
Plan on an extra day or two for weather. There are some great camping on some of the more primitive airstrips, if you are into camping.
 
If you go south to the Mohave and basically follow I40 to Albuquerque you won't have any trouble with restricted areas and no big mountains either, it's all downhill from Flagstaff.

New Mexico to Washington, well that's a lot of high desert and a boatload of mountain ridges to cross. Mid summer in the afternoon can be a challenge depending on conditions there can be a lot of activity meaning you'll have to dodge around build ups and thunderstorms or call it a day early and honestly, there aren't a lot of places to call it a day out there.

Maybe you are going to visit someone in New Mexico but if it were me, this time of year, I think I'd do a more leisurely run up to Seattle and back . There's an awful lot of neat stuff to see on that route. The way you've got it planned you're likely to come home with a ingrained dislike for the desert.
 
Consider adding a check of this website in your flight planning:

http://www.seeandavoid.org
Welcome to SeeAndAvoid.org. Originally created by the Air National Guard Aviation Safety Division, this portal is now funded by the Defense Safety Oversight Council and includes all military services. Our goal is to eliminate midair collisions and reduce close calls through continuous flight safety and proper flight planning. By promoting information exchange between civilian pilots and the military flight safety community, we hope to provide one-stop shopping to help all of us safely share the skies. This portal will allow users to find and link to all existing military Mid-Air Collision Avoidance (MACA) programs in a single web site, while also enjoying new access to information from bases that did not previously have web-based content.

This portal is targeting two user groups. The first group is General Aviation (GA) Pilots, who we encourage to include SeeAndAvoid.org as part of their flight planning. From weather to Notices to Airmen (NOTAMs) to flight planning, pilots in general and civilian pilots in particular, use the Internet to get their most important flight safety information. As important as the weather, knowing where the military operational flying areas are, and how to avoid that airspace is crucial to a safe flight. Unexpected turbulence, icing, terrain obscured by fog, or a jet flying low at 500 knots; each one is just as deadly to the GA pilot if not planned for prior to takeoff.

The second group targeted are the military safety officers at all military bases. This portal site provides every participating DoD flying base in the U.S. with the opportunity to create a web-based MACA educational and public outreach program. This web-based MACA program, intended primarily for an audience of 750,000 civil pilots, is modeled on centralized support, with decentralized execution. This website integrates and links with related sites such as FAA Special Use Airspace, AOPA’s Air Safety Foundation, and the new FAA MADE (military airspace deconfliction) program.​
 
Thanks folks,

I am planning to leave to fly early morning VFR conditions permitting flying out of San Jose instead of Palo Alto since weather conditions are better and the 182 that I rent is based there.

I flew both 182 and Arrow and the Arrow feels cramped and the ventilation sucks compared to the 182.

MAKG- you need to fly at other FBOs besides overpriced Palo Alto! As soon as I switched clubs to KRHV, I found rentals for $20-40 less expensive per hour!

I will give an example. When I was renting from Sundance at KPAO, their 182 rents for almost $200/hr wet rate including the fuel surcharge. I rent the 182 at KRHV for $158/hr wet rate with a nicer 750 Garmin panel. For the savings, I will drive 15 miles versus 8 miles from my house.

Plus I am taking a mountain checkout this week before the trip in the 182 from a mountain CFI to learn the key essentials of mountain flying even though I do plan to avoid as much high terrain as possible. We are flying up to Reno and Lake Tahoe before I commence my adventure.

I factored in a few extra days to account for weather issues so I can wait it out if there is a storm of IFR conditions until clear for VFR each day.

I am flexible on my trip and could do the Pacific northwest route instead of heading to New Mexico. I want to have a fun 5 days flying adventure to build my skills and experience! After all that is why we all learned to fly and work hard for our ticket is it not? The Garmin units have XM weather and I plan on flight following and keeping up with PIREPS and weather conditions at all phases.
 
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MAKG1 said:
600 miles a day in a straight leg 182? Are you sure that's a good idea? That's about 5 hours, more than I'd do in one shot. 182s aren't THAT fast, unless you get into turbocharged retractibles.
Click to expand...

Last week my friend and I flew 2,000 miles in a [turbo] 182 in 24 hours.
 
I can fly 5 hours in a comfortable 182 as long as I bring the right porta potty device and plenty of water and snacks. Music helps a lot as well. I flew 3 hours straight in a cramped go slow Piper Warrior so a roomy 182 is much easier from a comfort perspective.
 
I did legs like that in Australia where IMC is unusual (but we did run into some in Broken Hill), in the US it's risky. Build more time into your schedule. While I can do 5-6 hour legs periodically, day in and day out is going to be taxing for a single (not too high time) pilot. At least in Australia we had two pilots (my wife is a pilot). We were the only ship in our formation that had two.
 
I was hoping to fly about 5000 miles in 12 days but it isn't happening this year
 
Be careful up at Tahoe. It has been getting hot here and if you've never flown up here, the performance hit may surprise you. I trained up here and fly a 182 now... This is a good place to get a feel for high desert and mountain flying, though almost every year we read about someone from the Bay who learns about density altitude in the harshest way possible.

Keep a close eye on your engine temps... A vX or even vY climb may not be possible without overheating.

Reno only has one main runway right now (16R) so you'll be sharing with jets. Sometimes you can get 25 especially when the afternoon winds get above 20kts.

If you want a lunch stop, KMEV has a nice restaurant right on the field. Watch for gliders there.
 
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Sounds like a fun time. Be sure to take some pictures, and maybe some video.

I am sure you know this but do not get into the mode of “I GOT TO GET THERE”.
Relax and enjoy the moment. Have plenty of alternates if the weather turns bad in route. Do the “What IF” game.
 
Go and have fun. You are PIC. Fly as long as you want. 5 hours a day is not that long IMHO. I've flow 12-15 hours in a day. While I don't recommend it, it can be done.
 
skynewbie said:
I can fly 5 hours in a comfortable 182 as long as I bring the right porta potty device and plenty of water and snacks. Music helps a lot as well. I flew 3 hours straight in a cramped go slow Piper Warrior so a roomy 182 is much easier from a comfort perspective.
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A Warrior is cramped?
 
skynewbie said:
Thanks folks,
MAKG- you need to fly at other FBOs besides overpriced Palo Alto! As soon as I switched clubs to KRHV, I found rentals for $20-40 less expensive per hour!
Click to expand...

Maybe…RHV is a PITA to get to during the week, and it sucks the fun out of flying to sit in nasty traffic for 45-60 minutes just to drive 10 miles.

That isn't Cobe's 182, by any chance, is it? Cobe isn't an FBO, but she's a good instructor with her own plane (and a former CAP commander, which is where I know her from).

I looked into the RHV FBOs and didn't see much difference, except for the SJSU alumni club I'm not eligible for. And the 141 school catering to foreign students. Which one?

I'm checked out in a 182Q and 172M at Watsonville. It's indeed cheaper, by a lot, but a whole lot harder to get to.

To the others, I've no doubt that some people can fly a 182 all day. The current situation is a low-time pilot flying an airplane he just checked out in, with minimal hours in type and no high altitude nor desert experience. 182s aren't hard to fly, but there are a couple of BIG gotchas compared to 172s. Like, it's a bad idea to chop the power during round-out, and the cowl flaps need to be managed according to CHT (it is NOT always acceptable to close them in cruise).

And your landings will SUCK unbelievably if you let yourself get dehydrated.
 
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Just came out of New Mexico heading back to west Tx this weekend and a little help on your pre-flight planning, density altitude in New Mexico is running around 8500 to 9500 feet these days, and afternoons are bumpy, with constant moderate turbulence. Was pretty smooth in the early mornings before 11:00am. Eastern NM was alive with severe thunderstorms. Darn near had to invade Mexico to avoid the convective activity. Otherwise looks like you are well prepared for weather avoidance and it sounds like a great trip...be flexible and have fun.!!!
 
skynewbie said:
...I factored in a few extra days to account for weather issues so I can wait it out if there is a storm of IFR conditions until clear for VFR each day...
Click to expand...

Desert weather is unlike typical eastern weather with moving frontal systems. It will normally consist of stationary build ups and thunderstorms over mountains and rising terrain that steadily and often rapidly grow throughout the afternoon and early evening then dissipate overnight and are usually gone by early morning. You are unlikely to encounter IFR conditions unless you were to foolishly fly right into a thunderstorm but you will most likely encounter some pretty gnarly turbulence if you fly anytime past early afternoon.

This isn't always the case though, it's been pretty dry the last couple of years so it's possible for there to be little or no activity your entire trip.
 
I'm doing a mountain checkout with a CFI this week before my trip in the 182. So that along with extensive planning and alternate routes for the big trip will make things as safe as possible. I'm planning 3-5 hour legs with plenty of rest stops on the way along with water and snacks to keep me nourished.

MAKG, no the 182 belongs to a flight club but Cobe owns a turbo 182 I think based on what she was telling me the other day. Depends where you live and time of day getting to either RHV or PAO. I leave early to avoid traffic. Plus the more challenging parallel runways at RHV are good practice for me and watching out for class C SJC airspace next door. The 182 at RHV rent for $158 versus $180-200 at PAO so if you do the math it's quite a bit less expensive for a long trip! Sundance rents their lone 182 for almost $200/hr!

I find the challenge planning the trip would be routes to avoid high terrain from New Mexico up north to Washington. I want to avoid the need to suck on oxygen and avoid high peaks. So if you were flying from New Mexico to Washington state what would be some good routes?
 
Are you coming to Reno in a 182? I would not take a 172 up to Tahoe in the middle of the day... The climb performance will be very poor unless you are very lightly loaded. What is the highest airport you've flown into?
 
If I were doing it, cross the Colorado at Page, AZ, south of the Wasatches into Central Utah, east of the Salt Lake, and along the Snake River Valley. All takeoffs at sunrise.

ALWAYS follow roads, and carry water, supplies, and an emergency kit sufficient to spend the night in the desert ON YOU (some people use a vest for that). In the desert, it's very possible to make a nice emergency landing and then die from exposure or thirst waiting for searchers. If your emergency kit is in cargo, it's fairly likely not to make it out with you, especially if a fire is involved.

File a flight plan; you will not get flight following everywhere.

Do not assume that a single mountain checkout makes you a proficient mountain pilot. Even the really elaborate ones that spend multiple days flying all over the Sierra really only give you a "feel" for it.

Who has the 182 for that cheap? I don't see it on anyone's website.
 
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I am flying to Tahoe in a 182 and NOT in a 172. I need the extra power for high density altitude conditions right now. Mike, yes I know one mountain checkout does not make me an experienced mountain flying pilot I am doing it to get exposure but for my long trip terrain avoidance is my goal.

I will pack an emergency kit and have it in the cockpit within easy reach along with a popup tent, sleeping bag, water, food/snacks, etc.

Filing a flight plan is a prudent idea and I will do that as well.

Do a search in RHV for clubs Nice Air has at least they used to have a 182 for 145/hr.
 
Your mountain CFI could help plan a route from New Mex. to Wash.
 
Tahoe is also not all that high.

It's more instructive to do it in a 172. The 182 is too easy, though it will introduce you to the biggest flatlander errors -- excessive pitch and excessive (especially full rich) mixture on takeoff. Though it's not recommended due to turbulence, you can overfly the peaks at Tahoe. There are important places where that's not possible, some of them not far south of Tahoe.

Tahoe is doable in a 172 in calm wind, even on a hot day. Echo Summit can get a bit hairy in the wind, Donner Pass less so. I wouldn't want to consider Telluride in one, though there is a guy in Flagstaff teaching student pilots in a 172M where summer DA approaches 10,000.

My first intro was in a 177B (comparable in performance to a 172, with a CS prop and fixed gear) at Colorado Springs. The dang thing needed nearly 4000 feet of runway to get airborne, and then climbed like a wounded sloth.
 
Thanks yeah I will have my CFI help me plan the trip and also another pilot friend who has flown it before. Just wanted to get some ideas from the more experienced pilots on here on gotchas to watch out for. I see that between AZ-NM-CO is MOA and SUA crazy on vast amounts of restricted special airspace!
 
For a fun trip I would limit the flying to 3-4 hours per day. That's just me though. I've flown much more than that, but going to/from a destination I would be staying for several days. Or because someone paid me to do it.
 
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All my flights around Tahoe and Truckee have been in a 172, but for a flat lander it will be a surprise. I was shocked at how well the 172 performed at sea level after doing all my training in the high desert.
 
MAKG1 said:
600 miles a day in a straight leg 182? Are you sure that's a good idea? That's about 5 hours, more than I'd do in one shot. 182s aren't THAT fast, unless you get into turbocharged retractibles.

Do it early in the morning, or you'll get your teeth knocked out, especially over the desert.

Who has a 182 with a 750 for rent locally? Best I've seen is a 182Q with 430, but it's in Watsonville. Well, and CAP488 (182T with a G1000), but you're not CAP and they don't like flights out of state anyway.
Click to expand...

2 x 3 to 3.5 hr legs each day is easily doable. I've gone coast to coast and LAS to Anchorage and back doing just that.

C-182 with the G750 he said was a club airplane (?). The T-41B I fly just had a G750 installed.
 
From LAS to Carson City NV then to Eugene OR crosses the Sierra Nevadas northwest of Reno in a good area for crossing. Takes you within view of Crater Lake.
 
Enjoy your trip and get your instrument rating when able.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
My wife and I took a 3,600 mile trip in 10 days, but we did it in a 172 and we had a strong headwind the whole way there (Florida to PHX) and a moderate headwind the whole way back (figures). And we didn't have an auto pilot.

Be flexible with your daily destinations. Land when the weather tells you to. Follow the highways as much as you can, especially over the higher terrain. If you are not very familiar with Density Altitude, there is a good (if outdated) video on AOPA about it. It could save your life. There is also a good video about the time lag of NEXRAD that was posted here recently. Watch it before depending on that 696 with XM.


skynewbie said:
Hi folks,

Last year I got my ticket and have been flying simple local XC flights. Now I'm planning my longest trip yet from Palo Alto, California in the Bay Area to New Mexico then up north to Washington state and south from Seattle back to Palo Alto. I'm flying a 182 for the trip which has a nice Garmin 750 panel stack and I'm bringing my iPad mini with Foreflight and a portable Garmin 696 GPS with XM weather for backup. Flying the 3000 route over course of 5 days and looking for good VFR routes and tips to fly this trip. I can add few extra days cushion to account for unexpected weather conditions since I'm still VFR pilot. Initially I was going to do this trip in the club Piper Arrow but the 182 is way more comfortable for longer trip and has better avionics. I noticed tons of MOAs and restricted airspace between Southern California, Arizona and New Mexico so that's one challenge as well as navigating around high terrain.

Thanks
Ben
Click to expand...
 
Thanks I'm flying out next week and doing my flight planning mapping things out this weekend. Once I'm back then will get cracking on the Instrument rating.
 
skynewbie said:
...I find the challenge planning the trip would be routes to avoid high terrain from New Mexico up north to Washington. I want to avoid the need to suck on oxygen and avoid high peaks. So if you were flying from New Mexico to Washington state what would be some good routes?
Click to expand...

Well therein lies the real challenge. You can go to Page and from there do an early morning tour of Lake Powell and head west over Zion and Hurricane Mesa to St George, it's all very spectacular but to head due north northwest from St George for Seattle you're looking at some real empty sectors there with one mountain range after another to cross, probably 20 or 30 of them in Nevada. Then you get to eastern Oregon and you'll be thinking that Nevada was a teeming metropolis compared to this place. The Owyhee Gorge is something to see but man it is out there in the middle of nowhere.

To avoid that you kind of have to follow I15 either down to Vegas or up to Salt Lake and then make your way across on one of the more traditional routes. I'm not saying you can't do the straight shot but it takes some planning. I've done it but I was in a Maule and had 85 gallons of fuel. If you've got long range tanks and a strong bladder you can do it.
 
Is there an airport near the valley of the moon in Utah? The maps show a gap between terrain to fly from NM-CO-UT-OR from looking at a wall sized VFR map.
 
I don't know where there is a Valley of the Moon in Utah, but are you really saying you can look at a VFR chart and not know where airports are? If you're worried the scale is too big, look at a sectional. If you can post, you can look at skyvector.

You're a private pilot. You shouldn't need to ask around to find if an aitport exists. Maybe for FBO tips or things to do....
 
Mike,

I know how to find airports on a VFR chart. My question was asking for details in terms of places nearby valley of the moon in Utah near an airport for camping and food and lodging. I'll do some more research on my end on this.
 
skynewbie said:
Mike,

I know how to find airports on a VFR chart. My question was asking for details in terms of places nearby valley of the moon in Utah near an airport for camping and food and lodging. I'll do some more research on my end on this.
Click to expand...

vfrmap.com

skyvector.com
 
Thanks Ren, I'm using various sources for planning the trip. At this point, I'm going to make it easier and fly to Oregon with my dad. I had originally planned a solo trip but the 182 is booked next week and I don't want to the less powerful Arrow into high desert areas. So planning flight similar to what Joyce did recently with a side trip to the Oregon coast weather permitting. I'm adding extra days to account for the need to wait out weather and fuel stops since I doubt my father can go without a break after 4 hours.
 
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