Places to land in an engine failure?

Brooks

Brooks

Filing Flight Plan
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BellancaGuy
I am curious as to the top places people would land in the event of an engine failure and why you would pick that place. (for argument sake, pretend no airport is around)

I have been asking around my local airport but want to expand the question.

The biggest debate I've heard so far is that roads are either an excellent place or terrible place.
 
The responses you get will be varied. Where I would land a Cub is not the same place that I'd land a Navajo.

Sometimes a road may be the best option and sometimes not. There are often wires and structures along a road that may not make it the best choice. Also, the wingspan of many light airplanes is about as wide or wider than the typical two lane highway.
 
On a flight from Whitehorse YT to Fairbanks over the mountains any kind of water looked good, the lakes are all flat in Alaska. Retractable gear Commander.
 
Brooks said:
The biggest debate I've heard so far is that roads are either an excellent place or terrible place.
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IMO, one's position for that argument largely depends on whether or not you’ve actually landed on one. By the time I got my first flying job, I had seen more takeoffs and landings on roads than on runways. I’ve made several dozen of each myself. I’m mostly in the “excellent place” camp. ;)
 
Oddly enough, I just did a study on this subject earlier this year. I looked at the type of terrain used for forced landings after engine failures. This covers homebuilt accidents only, from 2011 to 2020.

This table summarizes the results. "Terrain" is the kind of terrain where the forced landing was made (and a given accident may see multiple combinations). "Cases" are the number of accidents that involved that type of terrain WHERE THE PILOT DID NOT STALL (obviously, the terrain doesn't matter as much if a stall is involved. "Fatalities" are the number of those cases where aircraft occupants were killed. "Survival Rate" is how often the occupants came through without fatalities.
_______Terrain______|_Cases_|_Fatalities_|_Survival Rate_|
_Runway Environment_|___56__|______4_____|_____92.9%_____|
_____Heavy Brush____|___14__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
______Buildings_____|___12__|______3_____|_____75.0%_____|
_______Fences_______|___17__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
____Rough Terrain___|___13__|______1_____|_____92.3%_____|
________Water_______|___10__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
____Road/Ditches____|___50__|______2_____|_____96.0%_____|
__Power Poles/Lines_|___15__|______3_____|_____80.0%_____|
________Trees_______|___57__|_____10_____|_____82.5%_____|
________Marsh_______|___8___|______2_____|_____75.0%_____|
___Short of Runway__|___25__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
___Pasture/Fields___|__146__|______9_____|_____93.8%_____|

A couple of things to keep in mind. First, engine failures themselves are NOT reportable accidents. So this table doesn't reflect how often a pilot was able to set down without damage.

Second, these accidents are SOLELY cases where the pilot maintained control until ground contact.... this table does NOT include cases where the pilot stalled while attempting to execute a forced landing.

If the pilot DOES stall, the survival rate is about 40%.

So if the engine quits, don't stall.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Oddly enough, I just did a study on this subject earlier this year. I looked at the type of terrain used for forced landings after engine failures. This covers homebuilt accidents only, from 2011 to 2020.

This table summarizes the results. "Terrain" is the kind of terrain where the forced landing was made (and a given accident may see multiple combinations). "Cases" are the number of accidents that involved that type of terrain WHERE THE PILOT DID NOT STALL (obviously, the terrain doesn't matter as much if a stall is involved. "Fatalities" are the number of those cases where aircraft occupants were killed. "Survival Rate" is how often the occupants came through without fatalities.
_______Terrain______|_Cases_|_Fatalities_|_Survival Rate_|
_Runway Environment_|___56__|______4_____|_____92.9%_____|
_____Heavy Brush____|___14__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
______Buildings_____|___12__|______3_____|_____75.0%_____|
_______Fences_______|___17__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
____Rough Terrain___|___13__|______1_____|_____92.3%_____|
________Water_______|___10__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
____Road/Ditches____|___50__|______2_____|_____96.0%_____|
__Power Poles/Lines_|___15__|______3_____|_____80.0%_____|
________Trees_______|___57__|_____10_____|_____82.5%_____|
________Marsh_______|___8___|______2_____|_____75.0%_____|
___Short of Runway__|___25__|______0_____|_____100.0%____|
___Pasture/Fields___|__146__|______9_____|_____93.8%_____|

A couple of things to keep in mind. First, engine failures themselves are NOT reportable accidents. So this table doesn't reflect how often a pilot was able to set down without damage.

Second, these accidents are SOLELY cases where the pilot maintained control until ground contact.... this table does NOT include cases where the pilot stalled while attempting to execute a forced landing.

If the pilot DOES stall, the survival rate is about 40%.

So if the engine quits, don't stall.

Ron Wanttaja
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just curious what a typical glide ratio is for the homebuilts you reported on.
 
eman1200 said:
just curious what a typical glide ratio is for the homebuilts you reported on.
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Nothing typical. Planes ranging from ultralight-type homebuilts (with N-Numbers) to Lancairs. Smaller homebuilts mean you don't have a lot of choice; I tell the guys in the Fly Baby world that if the engine quits, throw out a brick and fly formation with it.

Still doesn't mean you won't have SOME choice....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Road, water, field, any open area. I’d do my best to not have to go into tall trees or rocks.

I don’t think there’s any always correct answer. Just don’t stall.
 
Cloudhound said:
My first choice would be a runway.
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That would be my answer. Use the “nearest” function and your glide rings.

For example, if you were taking your family to Disney land in your Piper six and the engine starts to die.

If not an option then a nice farm field.
 
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I'd avoid big rocks. Smaller trees or brush I'd do. Roads ok as long as they're not otherwise occupied, but watch for power poles along the sides that might have wires strung across the road. Water? Not if it's cold water or in a cooler season. If you don't drown the hypothermia can get you.
 
WDD said:
That would be my answer. Use the “nearest” function and your glide rings.

For example, if you were taking your family to Disney land in your Piper six and the engine starts to die.

If not an option then a nice farm field.
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In my plane, if I'm not already in the pattern, it's unlikely there's an airport within gliding range.
 
Prolly best to ask someone who has done it 186 times rather than just speculate. See attached...
 

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If you just fly the plane and land as slow as possible you can safely stop in fours feet in a C-172. The 172 crash.jpgThe two occupants just walked down the stairs of the house under construction with minor injuries.
 

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There are roads and then there are roads. A vacant interstate would be great, but I4 near Orlando would provide an opportunity to participate in an airplane crash and an automobile wreck at the same time. @Salty could have set down on a road when his Mooney’s engine quit, but there was traffic so he opted for an orange grove instead.

The nature of the emergency matters, too. Here in central Florida, if I were on fire I’d probably aim for a lake. Ditchings are usually survivable, but fiery crashes often are not.

And what about the type of aircraft? I suspect a low wing would have a better chance landing in trees or heavy vegetation than a high wing.

Too many variables to generalize.
 
Wintertime is frozen lake al day. Sumer- wherever I can find that looks open
 
Here it's all hills and trees, so I suppose I look for the softest hill/tree.
 
Power lines are usually by roads, but depending on circumstances that may be best option at the time. Most important thing is to fly the plane to maintain control.
 
It all depends on what you are flying over. If your in the Midwest then a road may not be desirable if you have corn or bean fields around. If you are in the northeast than a road may be more desirable than the trees everywhere else. When the engine quits you just have to look at what’s around and take your best guess as to what is most survivable
 
Here in South Cackalacky, golf courses are everywhere and tend to be wire-free, as long as you stay away from the clubhouse.
 
My choices were forest or a cow pasture. Guess which one I chose. If there hadn't been an invisible from the air wire fence through the middle, there wouldn't have been any post-landing damage.
 
If you successfully land the plane without any damage, the insurance company won't have any responsibility and the engine rebuild/replacement will be paid for out of your pocket. If you have a survivable landing that severely damages the plane, the insurance company buys the whole thing and you remain financially whole. That always runs through my mind when I look for emergency landing areas.
 
Flyhound said:
If you successfully land the plane without any damage, the insurance company won't have any responsibility and the engine rebuild/replacement will be paid for out of your pocket. If you have a survivable landing that severely damages the plane, the insurance company buys the whole thing and you remain financially whole. That always runs through my mind when I look for emergency landing areas.
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I've heard that when the engine quits it's now the insurance companies airplane... so why try to save their airplane...
 
In rural Nevada roads are a decent option. The highway from Ely to Tonopah is about 160 miles with no towns or services, and almost no traffic.
 
I wish to circle back and approach the question as: Where/what I should avoid and not land. Urban areas are tops on the list. Avoid bodies of water more than knee deep. Plowed fields. Any power lines near a road. A pilot I know, picked a four lane hwy with lines on only one side. He managed to find the single guy wire brace that spanned the 4 lane and was anchored to a single pole on the opposite side. The damage could have been much worse. Another lost the engine on a Hiller helicopter over Texas, W of Ft Worth. Rough terrain with few choices. He aimed for a rocky area with low brush. he did a perfect zero airspeed autorotation. Unfortunately, a whole clan of rattle snakes lived in the rocks. He said that he exited so fast that his feet never touched the ground.
 
Maxnr said:
Unfortunately, a whole clan of rattle snakes lived in the rocks. He said that he exited so fast that his feet never touched the ground.
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Swamps can contain snakes, too. And alligators, if you're far enough south, I suppose. Never see alligators in southern Saskatchewan. We do have rattlesnakes. An engine failure just about anywhere in southern SK, except for Regina, should be no problem. The whole area is one big runway.
upload_2022-4-5_12-40-51.jpeg
 
Field road or dike road is the first thing I look for in my area. Frequently, if I'm flying the local hills, I can stretch a glide out toward lower ground and find a road between 2 fields that is long enough and straight enough to land on. There's the danger of becoming fixated on the landing and not noticing wires. But, I've seen too many cases where a pilot chose an open field to land in, only to realize too late that it is too rough for controlled landing and end up upside down and trapped.
 
I have ask a experimental pilot at my airport. Last summer I heard him in the pattern with his subaru powered plane. Then I didn't hear him anymore. Many hours went by like 6 or so and his hangar door was still open. I was getting ready to leave at about midnight wondering if I should drive across the airport and close his hangar before I leave fearing the worst! Just then the plane came back on a trailer. I was too tired and relieved to go ask what happened. Never heard anything in the news, hope he was alright. Haven't seen him at the airport since.
 
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Bill said:
And refreshment girls!!! :drool:
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Where that came from.....


th
 
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Any given choice has both pro's and con's to it.

The key for any given option is to arrive wings level, under control, and the lowest possible groundspeed. You do those three things, you will likely survive. You might get hurt, and you might bend the airplane, but you will live.
 
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