Piper vs Cessna

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hangar-birdstrike

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I'm looking for operational information on utilizing a Piper vs Cessna for a flight school. I'd like to solicit information from anyone that has information regarding operational costs, maintenance, etc. Why would one choose a Piper over a Cessna or vice versa.

I know the answer will depend on the year, equipment, hours, etc. For this example let's assume neither is new, circa 1980.
 
Definitely going to have to be more specific regarding model. Cessna's range from this:
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to this:
Latitude-in-flight-.jpg

Piper also has a large spread.
 
This is a flight school so I would guess at least 80% have 172 and pa28140/160/180. Taildraggers and jet aircraft are not common for a flight school.

I know there are many variables so any info such as Piper parts cost more than Cessna would be helpful.

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You have tapped into a dispute that has carried on for 85 years or so... but if you're strictly talking from a cost standpoint... standard training aircraft, be they piper or Cessna, is relatively the same...
 
I would venture to say maintenance cost will be roughly the same, however Cessna's acquisition cost are usually slight higher than a Piper. Parts will be plentiful for both brands and any A&P can work on those. Get a mixture of both so students can try on both. Me personally id go with Piper's, low wings just look cooler! I have a Cherokee 180 and love it. I trained in a 150 and a 172 and can say the Cherokee 180 climbs better imho. Granted its a 180 and neither training planes had 180hp.
 
This is a to-may-toe or to-mah-toe argument in the making.


Which one can you get cheaper? Buy that one.
 
Rounding error, just find the nicest example, also might be cool to have a mixed fleet, really isn't much of a difference between the two, ofcourse it's easier to find a PA28 with manual flaps, which I prefer from a MX and flight standpoint.

But as far as training goes, MX, etc, it's really a wash, also if you are trying for get both in a single hanger having a PA28 and a 172/50 it might be easier to stager them in.
 
James331 said:
ofcourse it's easier to find a PA28 with manual flaps, which I prefer from a MX and flight standpoint.
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This is true, but on 172's there is only 1 oleo strut vs. 3 to maintain on PA28's.

Also to the OP - MANY flight schools have taildraggers and for good reason.
 
I think I'm going to go find a driving enthusiast forum and post a question asking, "For starting a car rental company, which is better: Ford or Chevy?"
 
I was recently looking to go up on a flight as cheaply as possible, so I started looking at what the options were at local flight schools. Most had 172s or PA28s. I was surprised, it wasn't easy to find a 150. When I did find one, as you might expect, it rented at a significantly cheaper rate than the 4 seat options.

I tend to prefer flying the low wing Pipers, but for a cheap training aircraft, it's hard to beat the venerable 150.

I guess this is a roundabout way of asking what clientele you're looking for. Around NYC, Cirrus and newer glass panel 172s seem to be fairly common. Further away from the city you start to find PA28s and C172s with round gauges. Further away still you start to see 150s popping up. I'm guessing it has to do with what the clients want/expect and how much they're willing to pay.
 
Jim_R said:
I think I'm going to go find a driving enthusiast forum and post a question asking, "For starting a car rental company, which is better: Ford or Chevy?"
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This is also a valid question

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Jim_R said:
I think I'm going to go find a driving enthusiast forum and post a question asking, "For starting a car rental company, which is better: Ford or Chevy?"
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Oldsmobile or Pontiac better, take your choice
 
I am not a "pilot" as I have stated in the past am a forever student. I have flown both in training, mostly the 172 with the G1000. I have flown 172 and 150 with the gauges and a PA28-180. For training I will stay with the 172, but once I buy it will definitely be a low wing.
 
mscard88 said:
Oldsmobile or Pontiac better, take your choice
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Which is really just another way of saying "Bo or Mooney better, take your choice". :rolleyes:
 
There was a company here that had both a Cherokee 180 and a Cessna 150. The 150 seemed to have recurring cylinder problems, maybe because it flew at near max gross on every flight, and flew A LOT. Anyway, they sold it and bought another Cherokee, a pretty nice one too. That new-to-them Cherokee didn't seem to be anywhere near as popular as the Cessna 150 was. Shortly after that they closed up and sold both their airplanes, the only other high winged airplanes available were much much newer >1996 172s and 182s and a much higher cost from a different company.

FWIW population of Lincoln is around 260k people
 
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Still looking for someone that "actually" owns or runs a flight school. I would like to know how much per hour do you figure for maint cost, (scheduled and unscheduled) also engine reserves.

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Just stay away from twins! Our flight training center here has a C310, and so far it is 6 weeks and $20k into the annual. We changed both props (with ones we already own) and the list keeps going, and going, and going...

I don't have a huge amount of experience with Cherokees, I am fond of training aircraft that have more than one door!
 
One rule of thumb. Maintenance costs about the same per hour as fuel burn.
No matter what you do, you wont be able to accurately predict maintenance. Things come along and need repair. It costs money. Airplane owner pays for it.
 
I have a 1970 Cherokee 140 that is on leaseback. My "known" variable costs are in the neighborhood of $76 per hobbs hour. This includes an engine reserve assuming 22k for an overhaul and the engine (O-320) making it TBO. It also includes fuel at 5.25 gal at about 9 gallons an hour. It also includes a 100 hr and annual cost of 2,000 bucks.

My maintenance/avionics surprises have run about an additional 40 bucks an hour just because I had some stuff crap out on me that needed to be fixed so those costs are still being amortized over the use of the plane.

My fuel burn tends to be a little lower than 9 GPH(Hobbs), so my estimates are a little conservative as far as that's concerned.

That doesn't include fixed costs like payment, tie down fees (~$110/mo), and commercial insurance (~$267/mo).

The Cessnas (172SP) at the flight school are a bit more expensive, as they have 2 more cylinders to account for at the end of their life.
 
ircphoenix said:
I have a 1970 Cherokee 140 that is on leaseback. My "known" variable costs are in the neighborhood of $76 per hobbs hour. This includes an engine reserve assuming 22k for an overhaul and the engine (O-320) making it TBO. It also includes fuel at 5.25 gal at about 9 gallons an hour. It also includes a 100 hr and annual cost of 2,000 bucks.

My maintenance/avionics surprises have run about an additional 40 bucks an hour just because I had some stuff crap out on me that needed to be fixed so those costs are still being amortized over the use of the plane.

My fuel burn tends to be a little lower than 9 GPH(Hobbs), so my estimates are a little conservative as far as that's concerned.

That doesn't include fixed costs like payment, tie down fees (~$110/mo), and commercial insurance (~$267/mo).

The Cessnas (172SP) at the flight school are a bit more expensive, as they have 2 more cylinders to account for at the end of their life.
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this is fantastic thank you so much. this is exactly what I was looking for, on the same airline too.
 
hangar-birdstrike said:
this is fantastic thank you so much. this is exactly what I was looking for, on the same airline too.
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If you are going to be putting a plane on line with a flight school instead of running your own, it's going to cost you another 20-30 an hour that the school will take as their cut.
 
I am planning to buy. We are around 15 people that want to learn how to fly, picking up a second airplane is very possible.

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My experience operating 3 Cessna 172s for last several years in a flight school, rental operation, shows that $120.00 per hour barely pays the bills. Nothing left for engine reserve or a payment if there was one. Unless you just want to help people fly it's not worth it. Nice big gross amounts to show though. Lol.
 
Theboys said:
My experience operating 3 Cessna 172s for last several years in a flight school, rental operation, shows that $120.00 per hour barely pays the bills. Nothing left for engine reserve or a payment if there was one. Unless you just want to help people fly it's not worth it. Nice big gross amounts to show though. Lol.
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That's why I rent my plane for 500 bucks an hour. Before you say that's too much, that includes fuel. :p
 
hangar-birdstrike said:
I am planning to buy. We are around 15 people that want to learn how to fly, picking up a second airplane is very possible.

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Ha! I looked into joining a club w/ a Warrior and about 30 members. One of the club officers I talked with said it only flew about 15-20 hours a month, and most of the members didn't fly at all, a couple started learning but have stopped for different reasons, etc etc. So what did the club do? Bought another Warrior! Guess they had all that dues money and wanted to something with it.
 
Yup , get both.
Then your students can take what they like
 
In the light piston trainer market, it's largely personal preference when comparing equivalent models.
 
Do you want your students to look up or look down? Put your wing on accordingly.
 
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