Piper Saratoga II TC and Commander 114TC Questions

[RCK56]

Hello all,

I have two questions about these airplanes and figured creating one post would suffice.

For the Piper Saratoga II TC, are the pedals adjustable?

I'm 6'3, 210# with a 33" inseam and a few years ago, I flew a Saratoga HP and IIRC, the seats did not adjust forward and aft leaving the yoke banging into my knees. In my past 135 life, I flew T-tail Lances and seem to recall those seats were adjustable. If the HP seats weren't adjustable, I would imagine it's the same for the TC, hence my asking about adjustable pedals.

For the Commander 114TC, do the rear seats fold down?

Part of the criteria, if I buy a a plane, is to load downhill snow skis and my mountain bike in the back. Obviously, the Saratoga II TC fits that to a T. However, my girlfriend and I are north of 50 years of age so getting in/out of the plane is a factor. With Piper's having just the single front door for pilot access, that's a con against Piper even though the plane fulfills all the mission criteria I seek in a plane.

The Commander has dual front doors, can be retrofitted with FIKI TKS systems, and can have an engine upgrade without the hassle of a turbo. And it just looks beefier and bigger than the Pipers, along with trailing link gear.

I'm a low-wing type so any Cessna product is out. Cirrus is definitely out due to costs (and some nits I have with the airplane). Since I'm in the Denver, CO area, I need a high-performance plane to get us over the Rockies on trips westbound.

Thanks

 

[RussR]

Although I've never flown the HP model, I do have time in several models of PA-32, including the TC, and I'm pretty sure they all have seats that adjust fore/aft. Not sure why your experience on the HP is different.

Whether the range of adjustability is enough for you is a different issue, they're really not great for long legs. Maybe you already had it all the way back (and couldn't believe it)?

 

[Clip4]

The seat should have been adjustable both forward/aft and vertically.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

My PA32R (Lance) adjusts as Clip said. Forward and back. Up and down.

 

[RCK56]

Thanks, all, for the replies - much appreciate. It's been almost three years since I flew the HP and maybe my memory isn't as good these days.

Anyway, any plane has its share of compromises - it's just a matter what it manageable and what's not.

Again, thanks for the info about the Saratoga's.

Anyone have an answer for the Commander question?

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

@GMascelli has one....I think.

 

[GMascelli]

My commander 112 rear seats do not fold down flat but they do come out, then I go into station wagon mode. I’m not sure if the 114/115 are bench or a split bench.

Since it’s just Mary and I we leave the rear bench seat out, we love the room and it makes dog rescue flights easy peasy.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

My commander 112 rear seats do not fold down flat but they do come out, then I go into station wagon mode. I’m not sure if the 114/115 are bench or a split bench.

Since it’s just Mary and I we leave the rear bench seat out, we love the room and it makes dog rescue flights easy peasy.

Ah right, yours is a 112 not a 114. I forgot.

 

[RCK56]

My commander 112 rear seats do not fold down flat but they do come out, then I go into station wagon mode. I’m not sure if the 114/115 are bench or a split bench.

Since it’s just Mary and I we leave the rear bench seat out, we love the room and it makes dog rescue flights easy peasy.

Thanks for the info. In the 114B/TC models I've seen, seats appear to be basically a split bench with an armrest that comes down between them. Good to know that the rear seats are removeable.

 

[Einstein376]

I owned a 114B, the rear seat backs do not fold down. Skis would be able to rest on the armrest between the seat backs however.

Jim

 

[GMascelli]

Thanks for the info. In the 114B/TC models I've seen, seats appear to be basically a split bench with an armrest that comes down between them. Good to know that the rear seats are removeable.

That's what my 112A has for the back seat.

 

[RCK56]

I owned a 114B, the rear seat backs do not fold down. Skis would be able to rest on the armrest between the seat backs however.

Jim

That's what my 112A has for the back seat.

Thanks, Gary and Jim.

How do you both like(d) flying the 112/114?

My concern with buying a Commander is spare parts availability, since the planes are long out-of-production. I know Commander is still manufacturing parts, to a degree, and there's a company in VT that offers engine and other upgrades for the Commander series.

Undoubtedly, some will suggest I look at the Bonanza however, I've never flown one and prefer Piper's.

Thanks

 

[Redstone256]

I have a 1980 Saratoga SP. Both front seats adjust forward and aft, up and down. Getting in and out of it I can see being an issue as I age.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Thanks, Gary and Jim.

How do you both like(d) flying the 112/114?

My concern with buying a Commander is spare parts availability, since the planes are long out-of-production. I know Commander is still manufacturing parts, to a degree, and there's a company in VT that offers engine and other upgrades for the Commander series.

Undoubtedly, some will suggest I look at the Bonanza however, I've never flown one and prefer Piper's.

Thanks

I haven't heard of any Commander owners having much of a parts availability issue, aside from the same kind of components that would be tough to source from any manufacturer model no longer produced. The Commander owners forum is still active and a tight knit community. Pop over there and ask any questions you may have.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

WRT the Pa32…. Many of the vertical seat mechanisms are broken. So some don’t know it exists.

 

[thedealmakinman]

Thanks, Gary and Jim.

How do you both like(d) flying the 112/114?

My concern with buying a Commander is spare parts availability, since the planes are long out-of-production. I know Commander is still manufacturing parts, to a degree, and there's a company in VT that offers engine and other upgrades for the Commander series.

Undoubtedly, some will suggest I look at the Bonanza however, I've never flown one and prefer Piper's.

Thanks

 

[thedealmakinman]

Hi guys. I have a question. New pilot. Looking at a commander. Would a commander be too much plane? I have 50 total hours

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Hi guys. I have a question. New pilot. Looking at a commander. Would a commander be too much plane? I have 50 total hours

You'll get opinions both ways. As long as you get good transition training and respect the airplane you should be fine.

 

[Einstein376]

Hi guys. I have a question. New pilot. Looking at a commander. Would a commander be too much plane? I have 50 total hours

The key concern at 50 hours would be no or low complex/high performance time leading to high or obtainable insurance on the Commander. That being said, the Commander is an easy plane to fly and a great IFR platform.

Parts are not a problem to find or locate using the sources and knowledge on the Commander web group. This seems to be a recurring myth about not being able to find parts. Having the owner involved and doing some research for their mechanic is really the key when needing a Commander specific item.

Jim

 

[RCK56]

I have a 1980 Saratoga SP. Both front seats adjust forward and aft, up and down. Getting in and out of it I can see being an issue as I age.

Thanks - yes, that's the concern I have about getting in/out. I'm not 21 anymore.

I haven't heard of any Commander owners having much of a parts availability issue, aside from the same kind of components that would be tough to source from any manufacturer model no longer produced. The Commander owners forum is still active and a tight knit community. Pop over there and ask any questions you may have.

Thanks for the info and tip.

The trouble with buying a plane, at least at Centennial (KAPA) airport, is the glaring lack of hangar space available (and what is available is pricey). Too bad the county and/or airport doesn't seem interested in building hangars for GA.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Hello all,

I have two questions about these airplanes and figured creating one post would suffice.

For the Piper Saratoga II TC, are the pedals adjustable?

I'm 6'3, 210# with a 33" inseam and a few years ago, I flew a Saratoga HP and IIRC, the seats did not adjust forward and aft leaving the yoke banging into my knees. In my past 135 life, I flew T-tail Lances and seem to recall those seats were adjustable. If the HP seats weren't adjustable, I would imagine it's the same for the TC, hence my asking about adjustable pedals.

For the Commander 114TC, do the rear seats fold down?

Part of the criteria, if I buy a a plane, is to load downhill snow skis and my mountain bike in the back. Obviously, the Saratoga II TC fits that to a T. However, my girlfriend and I are north of 50 years of age so getting in/out of the plane is a factor. With Piper's having just the single front door for pilot access, that's a con against Piper even though the plane fulfills all the mission criteria I seek in a plane.

The Commander has dual front doors, can be retrofitted with FIKI TKS systems, and can have an engine upgrade without the hassle of a turbo. And it just looks beefier and bigger than the Pipers, along with trailing link gear.

I'm a low-wing type so any Cessna product is out. Cirrus is definitely out due to costs (and some nits I have with the airplane). Since I'm in the Denver, CO area, I need a high-performance plane to get us over the Rockies on trips westbound.

Thanks

So, downhill skiing and mountain biking, and you are worried about getting in and out of the plane?

 

[RCK56]

So, downhill skiing and mountain biking, and you are worried about getting in and out of the plane?

Yup, the roughest MTB trail I ride is flowy, smooth single track. My lumbar and neck vertebrae can't take any jumping on my bikes, even off curbs. So nothing technical on MTB trails.

As for downhill skiing, I don't ski anything harder than easy blue trails where we ski.

So, yes, climbing in/out of plane for someone like me can be a challenge even though I can ride my bikes (MTB, gravel, and fatbike - all flat-bars) and taking it easy skiing.