Piper really stuck their foot in it now...

Replacement at 1200 hrs? Yeah, F that.
 
Gonna be one of those "bleeding edge" and "industry leading" "game changing" (expensive) trials for untested equipement.

Aviation - making small fortunes from even larger investments since the Wright Brothers.
 
bnt83 said:
Gonna be one of those "bleeding edge" and "industry leading" "game changing" (expensive) trials for untested equipement.

Aviation - making small fortunes from even larger investments since the Wright Brothers.
Click to expand...

The sultan of brunei can probably handle the financial hit.
 
155 hp, 114 knot cruise ... it's a Warrior with glow plugs! :rolleyes:

How's diesel working out for Cessna? There are still only three J182Ts on the FAA register (plus the pre-production prototype seen in the ads), and all are still registered to Cessna.
 
!!!ACT NOW INCREDIBLE DEAL!!!


Prices exclude tax, title, license and sanity. Don't worry about your maintenance requirements, we'll provide them after purchase.
 
Last edited:
Looks like Piper is trying to capture some of the overseas market. We know how well diesels are selling in this country.
 
For what its worth, with the Diesel, you can cruise at 4-6gph. With Jet A considerably cheap than 100LL in many parts of the world, that is pretty significant savings in comparison to a gas powered bird. IIRC, when they first came out, gearboxes were 500 hour items, so they've improved on those. It all comes down to the cost of overhauls.

The traffic operation I used to fly with was running Thielert Centurion 1.7 engines in their 172s. The owner was coming out ahead, even after $60k engines and frequent overhaul intervals, based on pure fuel savings. Of course that all changed when Thielert went bankrupt and replacement parts become unobtainium.
 
So if these overhaul prices don't include things like:

  1. Engine Oil & Fuel Hoses
  2. Rubber Engine Mounts
  3. Propeller Overhaul
  4. Propeller Governor Overhaul
  5. Heat Exchangers (Oil Cooler / Fuel Heater)
  6. Exhaust
  7. Turbo (Some are and some aren't included)
  8. Ignition (magnetos / other)
  9. Baffle Repairs
  10. Starter
  11. Alternator
  12. Labor
What's it gonna really cost for the new diesels?

 
Last edited:
Another step closer to making General Aviation more inaccessible to the average American. smh
 
Pilawt said:
There are still only three J182Ts on the FAA register (plus the pre-production prototype seen in the ads), and all are still registered to Cessna.
Click to expand...

Piper can stand to have them own that much of this huge market potential...

:yikes:
 
Brad Z said:
For what its worth, with the Diesel, you can cruise at 4-6gph. With Jet A considerably cheap than 100LL in many parts of the world, that is pretty significant savings in comparison to a gas powered bird. IIRC, when they first came out, gearboxes were 500 hour items, so they've improved on those. It all comes down to the cost of overhauls.
Click to expand...

So...instead of a 2000hr TBO you have a 1200hr *replacement*, PLUS a 600hr gearbox overhaul. There is no way that can be cost effective just to save 2-5gph.
 
It's certainly easy to see why the fat lady is singing for GA.
 
Florida Cracker said:
For a lot less you can own an LSA and still go 114 knots burn 5 gph and use the extra $300,000 to play.
Click to expand...
If I had 400K I'd retire out of the country, live cheap(not Murican cheap, real cheap) and fly my paragliders every day.
 
timwinters said:
Costa Rica calls my name more every day.
Click to expand...

Have you seen what it costs to park a plane there? :hairraise:

I work with a lot of malaysians they have sold me. 10% taxes and $1 USD has the buying power of $4 USD there.
 
Last edited:
I have a strong feeling that only morons are left in the aviation industry.

"... I dunno whys we went bankrupts... "
 
bullwinkle said:
So...instead of a 2000hr TBO you have a 1200hr *replacement*, PLUS a 600hr gearbox overhaul. There is no way that can be cost effective just to save 2-5gph.
Click to expand...

Its not aimed at the US market. It is aimed at markets where access to reasonably priced 100ll is limited.

Having said that, they still have a lemon on their hands. :lol:
 
Geico266 said:
Its not aimed at the US market. It is aimed at markets where access to reasonably priced 100ll is limited.

Having said that, they still have a lemon on their hands. :lol:
Click to expand...

My question is, if the 100LL is such a big problem then why not build new planes with the old lower compression engines like the O320E2D 150 horse and burn car gas? Seems like a much cheaper option than starting from scratch to develope diesels....
 
bnt83 said:
My question is, if the 100LL is such a big problem then why not build new planes with the old lower compression engines like the O320E2D 150 horse and burn car gas? Seems like a much cheaper option than starting from scratch to develope diesels....
Click to expand...
The cars in these places are diesels as well. Just about every car you've ever seen has a diesel version outside the US.:mad2:
 
:idea: A more expensive engine to carry less useful load at a slower speed. What's not to love? :dunno:
 
I don't see how this airplane spells 'doom for ga'.

They probably have a sales goal for the U.S. of one per year. If they are lucky.

This airplane is for places where there is no 100L, or if there is, it's $10+ / gallon, available at one airport in a 200nm radius.

Piper will see enough of these to justify the investment.
 
That's just sad about the Piper.

Has anyone had or have a brand new purchased airplane on the ramp lately?

I've been at our field for five years now, and I've watched only one brand new Bonanza fly in to roost permanently at our field and that's it. The guy sold his oil company for millions or something, and he bought a G36 factory new. That's the only one in five years I can remember.
 
bnt83 said:
My question is, if the 100LL is such a big problem then why not build new planes with the old lower compression engines like the O320E2D 150 horse and burn car gas? Seems like a much cheaper option than starting from scratch to develope diesels....
Click to expand...

I've wondered that too. However, judging by the number of threads started about Diesel engines on the various web boards leads me to believe that people are in love with the idea of a Diesel engine in an airplane no matter how practical or impractical they may be.

The real question is, are there going to be STCs to install Diesel engines on older airframes and will the conversions be priced competitively enough that people will pay the price to convert? That is the only way I see these engines making an impact in the US market.
 
bnt83 said:
My question is, if the 100LL is such a big problem then why not build new planes with the old lower compression engines like the O320E2D 150 horse and burn car gas? Seems like a much cheaper option than starting from scratch to develope diesels....
Click to expand...


But then they couldn't charge another $100k for it. After all, it runs on jet fuel.:goofy:
 
JimNtexas said:
I don't see how this airplane spells 'doom for ga'.
Click to expand...

It's not just this airplane. Every new airplane for sale in today's market is a harbinger of the impending doom.

$300k C172s? $500k C182s? How could one possibly fail to be optimistic about GA's future?

Back in the late 70s, when I was in high school, our shop teacher had not one but two airplanes. A recent vintage Cherokee 180 for traveling and a Citabria for playing. He used to take us for rides after school.

Few, if any, school teachers today (or any other middle class profession for that matter) can afford one airplane, much less two, especially one of recent vintage.
 
Last edited:
I have bought two new Cessnas since 2006. Does that count?

No lottery..no oil company...

txflyer said:
That's just sad about the Piper.

Has anyone had or have a brand new purchased airplane on the ramp lately?

I've been at our field for five years now, and I've watched only one brand new Bonanza fly in to roost permanently at our field and that's it. The guy sold his oil company for millions or something, and he bought a G36 factory new. That's the only one in five years I can remember.
Click to expand...
 
timwinters said:
It's not just this airplane. Every new airplane for sale in today's market is a harbinger of the impending doom.

$300k C172s? $500k C182s? How could one possibly fail to be optimistic about GA's future?

Back in the late 70s, when I was in high school, our shop teacher had not one but two airplanes. A recent vintage Cherokee 180 for traveling and a Citabria for playing. He used to take us for rides after school.

Few, if any, school teachers today (or any other middle class profession for that matter) can afford one airplane, much less two, especially one of recent vintage.
Click to expand...

You forgot the T206H's that burn about 19 gallons/hour @ 75% power and cost well over a $100k just to overhaul the engine not including the ancillary parts, prop, accessories or labor.
 
bullwinkle said:
So...instead of a 2000hr TBO you have a 1200hr *replacement*, PLUS a 600hr gearbox overhaul. There is no way that can be cost effective just to save 2-5gph.
Click to expand...

In some european countries jet-fuel is for 'business' and untaxed and retails at the cost of delivery 100LL is considered a luxury good and taxed to punish the rich bastads that use it. In the US, the price difference is minor, in some of those locales it is a factor of 4. Then there are other places that simply dont have a 100LL distribution infrastructure and the only way to get some is to ship in a couple of 55Gal drums. For those niche markets, a diesel makes economic sense, I can't however imagine any market where the Thielert diesel makes any sense.
 
txflyer said:
That's just sad about the Piper.

Has anyone had or have a brand new purchased airplane on the ramp lately?

I've been at our field for five years now, and I've watched only one brand new Bonanza fly in to roost permanently at our field and that's it. The guy sold his oil company for millions or something, and he bought a G36 factory new. That's the only one in five years I can remember.
Click to expand...

A guy at my last airport had a new Bo, knowing his profession and that he was a fresh pilot, I had to wonder. Turns out his grandfather bought both him and his brother one.

But yeah, I'm at an airport that builds planes so I see plenty of new ones on the ramp :)
 
Yeah, the prices are ridiculous. In a year I would (technically) be able to afford most of these planes, but I would live in a house that cost the same as an airplane. Just hard to justify that, especially considering my plane note would be higher than a house note.

I'm shocked at the sticker price on 40 year old Bonanzas too. I guess the way to go is an older plane and spend the $50,000 to get the avionics you want and then still save about $150,000 on the price of a new one. Still just seems ridiculous - avionics upgrade would cost more than my car (and my first house.)

I could literally build a top notch home theater for the price of a garmin avionics suite. And it wouldn't do that much more for me than an ipad with foreflight and stratus 2.

I have to find a way to make all my plane expenses tax deductible.
 
Geico266 said:
Its not aimed at the US market. It is aimed at markets where access to reasonably priced 100ll is limited.

Having said that, they still have a lemon on their hands. :lol:
Click to expand...

For $200k you can build your own 100LL tank farm and still have $200K for an airplane. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top