Piper Cub flying lesson at Red Stewart Airfield

KeithASanford

KeithASanford

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I'm going to be in Cincinnati next weekend for business, so I booked my first ever flying lesson in a Piper Cub at Red Stewart Airfield. I've never flown any tail wheel aircraft for that matter, so I'm dying to see what all the fuss is about.

I'm going to wear my cap with my 808 keychain camera velcroed to it, so I'll get POV stuff. Does anybody know if they'll let me mount my Drift HD170 in the plane during the lesson? I'd like to get the cabin shot out the front window or the wing shot as well.
 
That's a cool place. If you have time fly a glider there too or go over to Caesar Creek just a few miles east.
 
It's only hard because people say it's hard... In reality it's just a bit of practice ;) after all, the endorsement usually takes what, 8-12 hrs ? Can't be _that_ hard if you can be deemed safe after 8-12 hrs of dual... My 2c.
 
igorek82 said:
It's only hard because people say it's hard... In reality it's just a bit of practice ;) after all, the endorsement usually takes what, 8-12 hrs ? Can't be _that_ hard if you can be deemed safe after 8-12 hrs of dual... My 2c.
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Your 2c is not correct. To fly any taildragger and be competent takes many more hours. To demonstrate you can get it up and back down on a calm day takes around 12 hours, ......maybe. Throw in cross winds , unusual attitudes, etc. Lots more time. " a bit of practice" is totally off base. " Then throw in type of aircraft. A cub is a walk in the park compared to a Stearman or a 195.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
A cub is a walk in the park compared to a Stearman or a 195.
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I thought this thread WAS about a Cub :dunno: The point im trying to make here is for the OP to go there with an open mind and enjoy the experience and then get his tw endorsement soon after ;)
 
Some tailwheel aircraft are easier than others, but the endorsement is a license to learn, doesn't mean you won't ground loop a time or two in the future, especially if you start to relax and think you are good.


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RyanShort1 said:
Some tailwheel aircraft are easier than others, but the endorsement is a license to learn, doesn't mean you won't ground loop a time or two in the future, especially if you start to relax and think you are good.


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A private pilots license is also simply a license to learn. I got my private in a taildragger and although I have never ground looped in over 4000 hours, I might still in the future. I was trained well, by a high time pilot with many hours in a taildragger which made a big difference. Today's instructors, in many instances , do not have much more time than the students. 2-300 hours to me is low time.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
A private pilots license is also simply a license to learn. I got my private in a taildragger and although I have never ground looped in over 4000 hours, I might still in the future. I was trained well, by a high time pilot with many hours in a taildragger which made a big difference. Today's instructors, in many instances , do not have much more time than the students. 2-300 hours to me is low time.
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I'm close to 1000 tailwheel.
 
Keith, call ahead and ask them if you can mount your camera and where, only they can answer your question.

Go there with an open mind because this will be a different kind of flying than you are probably used to. It may feel a little cramped, crude with awkward ground handling from what you are used to, but that's just the way it was back in '46.
Remember, this plane has about a 1200lb gross, much lighter than any other plane you've flown, and it will be affected by any amount of wind, so be aware of it.
It will feel light and almost float off the ground on take of rather than rotate and climb out. Use the different pitch attitudes of the cowling and horizon for climb, cruise and descent, same with the wing tips for straight and level.
It's pure raw stick and rudder flying, no extras like knobs to turn and push and screens to look at.
Enjoy it for the simple fun affordable flying that it is.
 
Used to fly my T-Craft for $2.65 an hour for fuel and oil.
Before you get carried away, that was expensive. I was making about a $1.85 an hour in those days as an electrician apprentice..
 
igorek82 said:
It's only hard because people say it's hard... In reality it's just a bit of practice ;) after all, the endorsement usually takes what, 8-12 hrs ? Can't be _that_ hard if you can be deemed safe after 8-12 hrs of dual... My 2c.
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And will they let you take the plane solo after 8-12hrs?
 
James331 said:
And will they let you take the plane solo after 8-12hrs?
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Yep, and they even have a Stearman for solo rental. Hope Jimmy doesn't find out that mere rental pilots can fly a Stearman.
 
RoscoeT said:
Yep, and they even have a Stearman for solo rental. Hope Jimmy doesn't find out that mere rental pilots can fly a Stearman.
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No kidding.

Still 8-12hrs isn't much tailwheel time.


I don't get all the hoopla about the stearman, it was, and is a primary trainer, it ain't super fast and it's built like a tank, not like a sort coupled high speed, high wing loaded taildragger or something.
 
Got my endorsement at Red Stewart but in a Champ.

I prefer the Champ since you fly up front, rather in the rear seat in the Cub. They have both aircraft for rent and for lessons.

Most fun was slipping it in over the tree across the street from the end of the runway. :D

Cheers
 
James331 said:
And will they let you take the plane solo after 8-12hrs?
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Yes but you can't land any place else than at Red Stewart. Good for sightseeing but you have to limit your landings to their field.

Standard practice was get a check out with an instructor aboard then 3 Landings for a sign off. Haven't checked lately.

Cheers
 
James331 said:
And will they let you take the plane solo after 8-12hrs?
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RoscoeT said:
Yep, and they even have a Stearman for solo rental.
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Well, yes, but there's a big BUT.

http://www.stewartsaircraft.net/aircraft-fleet-and-rental.html said:
Rules for rentals - Tailwheel airplanes:

...

Landings limited to 40I (unless you are receiving dual from one of our instructors)
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I used to live near there, and have flown their Champ and their Stearman. But one of the things that kept me from bothering to get checked out in them was that very rule. You can't land anywhere else! So what are you supposed to do?

Their planes, their rules, but I just can't see the sense in this one.

EDIT: I see X3 Skier beat me by a minute!
 
RussR said:
You can't land anywhere else! So what are you supposed to do?
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You want a x-country cruiser, rent a Warrior from a boring airport. Lots of Cub pilots don't do more than cruise around within a few miles of their airport, and/or do T&G's. Fine Cub mission.
 
Rob S (CLR2TKF) and I flew out to meet up with Steve D ( A mile of Runway..) that flys out of Red Stewart. Rob flew the cub, I flew in the Stearman. No TW endorsement for me so no take off or landings, but it was a blast flying it! Rob then switched to the stearman and he flew for a while.

Great airport and really friendly folks.

Dayton Adventure, flight journal.
 
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I did tailwheel and Spin training there great place. I plan on doing more there in the future.
 
RoscoeT said:
You want a x-country cruiser, rent a Warrior from a boring airport. Lots of Cub pilots don't do more than cruise around within a few miles of their airport, and/or do T&G's. Fine Cub mission.
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Nobody's going to argue that a Cub is a cross-country cruiser, and that's not the point. But really? You know lots of Cub pilots that never land at another airport? That don't like to fly to pancake breakfasts, or stop in at their friend's grass strip on a Saturday afternoon? That never want to go anywhere else?

Seems like most of the pilots I know like to go somewhere occasionally, even if it's just down the road.

I appreciate the "low, slow, looking at the scenery" kind of flight, I've done it many times myself. But Ohio has an abundance of neat little airports that would be perfect for a Cub.

Like I said, it's their plane, their rules, and I guess it works for them, but I never understood this rule. (In fact, I've never heard of this rule at ANY other aircraft rental location.)
 
RussR said:
Like I said, it's their plane, their rules, and I guess it works for them, but I never understood this rule. (In fact, I've never heard of this rule at ANY other aircraft rental location.)
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Could be negiotated reduction in insurance premiums which actually allows them to solo rent at prices people in that area would be willing to pay for a raggedy Cub or Champ.
 
RoscoeT said:
You want a x-country cruiser, rent a Warrior from a boring airport. Lots of Cub pilots don't do more than cruise around within a few miles of their airport, and/or do T&G's. Fine Cub mission.
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Flying a Cub from the east coast of Florida to central Texas can be done in two days... been there done that.
 
The J-3 Cub is the best trainer ever made, and in fact one of the best airplanes ever made!

I learned in a J-3, and soloed in 7 hours. And that wasn't because I was the Ace of the Base, it's because it's that easy to fly.

You do have to use your brain, hands, and feet a little more than a C150, but it's not hard, and it's ten times the fun of a C29 or PA150.

The Cub can just barely kill you.
 
Mother Nature said no. :mad:

My flight to Cincinnati began as a flight from DCA to EWG. Too bad the wrath of God was over Newark for more than four hours last Thursday, which prevented me from getting to Cincinnati until well after my scheduled flight lesson.

Oh well, I'll reschedule and try again on my own time. That's what I get for not making my flight the priority of the trip.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
A private pilots license is also simply a license to learn. I got my private in a taildragger and although I have never ground looped in over 4000 hours, I might still in the future. I was trained well, by a high time pilot with many hours in a taildragger which made a big difference. Today's instructors, in many instances , do not have much more time than the students. 2-300 hours to me is low time.
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Tailwheel ground loop or retracts gear up, pilots are in 3 categories.
Those that will, those that have, and those that will again.

I prefer to remain in the first category for my flying career.

Once you are in the second group, your are automatically enrolled in the third group as long as you continue flying.
 
KeithASanford said:
Mother Nature said no. :mad:

My flight to Cincinnati began as a flight from DCA to EWG. Too bad the wrath of God was over Newark for more than four hours last Thursday, which prevented me from getting to Cincinnati until well after my scheduled flight lesson.

Oh well, I'll reschedule and try again on my own time. That's what I get for not making
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Major Bummer, you would like the Cub.
 
Love my taildragger.

But as far as buying a cub, I've never understood the fascination.

For what they cost, you can get into a C-170 or even a 180 and if you want to go low and slow just pull the black knob out until you're happy. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
Love my taildragger.

But as far as buying a cub, I've never understood the fascination.

For what they cost, you can get into a C-170 or even a 180 and if you want to go low and slow just pull the black knob out until you're happy. :dunno:
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If you have to ask of course you don't get it. If you gave me a 170 or 180 it would be a hangar queen.
 
RoscoeT said:
If you have to ask of course you don't get it. If you gave me a 170 or 180 it would be a hangar queen.
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I love all airplanes don't get me wrong, but ~$100,000.00 for a plane I can outrun in my Ford?



stooges500.jpg
 
BillTIZ said:
Tailwheel ground loop or retracts gear up, pilots are in 3 categories.
Those that will, those that have, and those that will again.

I prefer to remain in the first category for my flying career.

Once you are in the second group, your are automatically enrolled in the third group as long as you continue flying.
Click to expand...

Not to stir a pot, but those are two mantras (along with "any landing you can walk away from is a good one") that make me crazy. It's the silliest thing I've ever heard in aviation.

When pilots say things like that it sounds like a crutch for pilot error. mechanical failures aside, ground loops, and gear ups are pilot error. We make it sound like it's GOING to happen eventually, like it's statistically unavoidable. I've towed banners with a 450 Stearman, towed gliders with anything that had a tow hook, bush flying, warbirds L-4 to T-6 and P-51, and ag flying with airplanes at max gross weight with downwind take offs and landings.

This isn't to say I haven't come close to bending a taildragger, far from it. But every time I came close it was because I used poor technique or made a bad decision on how much tailwind, or crosswind I could handle. I've never had a rogue gust of wind just suddenly appear out of a calm day on roll out that caught me off guard and sent me off the side of the runway. I knew what I was getting into and neglected to make the correct control inputs. Thats just situational awareness and solid airmanship.

Comments like this are the reason I have to spend at least a couple flying hours with a perspecctive tailwheel pilot convincing them that the taildragger isn't a beast destined for a mishap and their just along for the ride until it happens. Rather, flying tailwheel airplanes (of any type) aren't any more difficult to fly than a tricycle gear airplane. Its simply a different set of skills to be learned.

In the era when most all aircraft were "conventional", did we just accept a higher accident rate than we do now because we flew tailwheel airplanes? No, of course not. (high tempo military training aside) Wrecking a plane was just as rare and frowned upon as it is now. So why are we making excuses for it?

Lastly, the skills you learn from the back seat of an A-65 powered J-3 will transfer to any larger taildragger you fly. Ive had guys go from a couple hundred hours in a Cub and head straight for a Stearman and T-6 with no issues. You keep a Cub straight just like you do a T-6. In some cases a Cub will make you work harder, just not faster.

Mike-
 
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"Truly superior Pilots are those who use their superior judgement to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills."
 
KeithASanford said:
I'm going to be in Cincinnati next weekend for business, so I booked my first ever flying lesson in a Piper Cub at Red Stewart Airfield. I've never flown any tail wheel aircraft for that matter, so I'm dying to see what all the fuss is about.

I'm going to wear my cap with my 808 keychain camera velcroed to it, so I'll get POV stuff. Does anybody know if they'll let me mount my Drift HD170 in the plane during the lesson? I'd like to get the cabin shot out the front window or the wing shot as well.
Click to expand...

Cubs are very docile as tail draggers go. They're also easy for bleeding off speed on final. Keep your touchdown speed at 35 or so and it's simple. Crosswinds can make it sporty but lacking that don't fret it too much.
 
stearmann4 said:
Not to stir a pot, but those are two mantras (along with "any landing you can walk away from is a good one") that make me crazy. It's the silliest thing I've ever heard in aviation.

When pilots say things like that it sounds like a crutch for pilot error. mechanical failures aside, ground loops, and gear ups are pilot error. We make it sound like it's GOING to happen eventually, like it's statistically unavoidable. I've towed banners with a 450 Stearman, towed gliders with anything that had a tow hook, bush flying, warbirds L-4 to T-6 and P-51, and ag flying with airplanes at max gross weight with downwind take offs and landings.

This isn't to say I haven't come close to bending a taildragger, far from it. But every time I came close it was because I used poor technique or made a bad decision on how much tailwind, or crosswind I could handle. I've never had a rogue gust of wind just suddenly appear out of a calm day on roll out that caught me off guard and sent me off the side of the runway. I knew what I was getting into and neglected to make the correct control inputs. Thats just situational awareness and solid airmanship.

Comments like this are the reason I have to spend at least a couple flying hours with a perspecctive tailwheel pilot convincing them that the taildragger isn't a beast destined for a mishap and their just along for the ride until it happens. Rather, flying tailwheel airplanes (of any type) aren't any more difficult to fly than a tricycle gear airplane. Its simply a different set of skills to be learned.

In the era when most all aircraft were "conventional", did we just accept a higher accident rate than we do now because we flew tailwheel airplanes? No, of course not. (high tempo military training aside) Wrecking a plane was just as rare and frowned upon as it is now. So why are we making excuses for it?

Lastly, the skills you learn from the back seat of an A-65 powered J-3 will transfer to any larger taildragger you fly. Ive had guys go from a couple hundred hours in a Cub and head straight for a Stearman and T-6 with no issues. You keep a Cub straight just like you do a T-6. In some cases a Cub will make you work harder, just not faster.

Mike-
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Well put, I'm saving this. Thanks


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VanDy said:
Well put, I'm saving this. Thanks


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Better Save this too. If your really competent in say a champ or a cub, a Stearman will not be a hard transition except in a cross wind. Simply look at the gear on a Stearman and the height of the lower wing to the ground. Then see how much more aircraft is exposed to a cross wind. ( a cessna 195 is as difficult in a crosswind or more so) I've never found an airport that rents a Stearman in the fourty years I've flown without a seasoned pilot in the other seat. Some years back everyone learned in a taildragger so this type conversation would have been laughable. Today the average pilot with low hours in only a trike would be hard pressed to even find many competent tail wheel instructors much less rent something like a Stearman. ( during WW2 Stearman training was usually done in a big circle , with the wind sock in the center so the student was always landing into the wind. ) pilots I flew in my Stearman who had flown them in WW2 said there were many many accidents in both the Stearman and the T6 both in TOS and landings. I shall close by saying the most boring tail wheel aircraft I owned was a cub. The two best were the Stearman and an F model Luscombe. One I did not own but flew some and really liked was a 180 cessna.
 
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