Clark1961
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Totally misses the point of bflynn's post...
Penn State Child Sex Abuse Scandal
- Thread starter Geico266
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Totally misses the point of bflynn's post...
Captain
Final Approach
Your right. I just murdered a family of eight. Why put me to death? Why kill my kids father? Deprive my wife of her wage earner? How many people need to suffer?!?
And suggesting they just take away my birthday? Well, that's just plain rude!
bflynn
Final Approach
Does it?
You just said that protecting children comes before everything. Explain then why you owning a house and wasting money on airplanes doesn't count. If protecting children is more important than everything, then shouldn't you be selling your house and using all of your money to do what comes before everything?
Do you understand that no matter how much you do, no matter what statues you melt down, no matter what wins you "take away", no matter if you shut Penn State itself down, it will never change the past?
I heard a really good suggestion today - perhaps this incident is a good opportunity for us all to step back and quit thinking the worst of each other. Vengance is no solution and there are plenty who want to pile on more punishment.
I personally believe the leadership didn't fail to report it out of greed for their school, but out of loyalty to their former coach. A part of their reasoning, however flawed you might think it to be, stems from the fact that with child abuse, an accusation is equated to guilt. While in Sandusky's case, that was correct, how were they to know that at the time? Whether you recognize it or not, the leadership was required to act as judges about whether or not to make the accusation public and in doing so potentially condemn an innocent man that they had known for decades. They were forced into doing that by the inflexibility of the public that assigns guilt first because the accusation is so horrible that a punishment must be dealt.
And before you make any further accusations, I have no loyalty at all to Penn State. Before all this happened, I couldn't have identified a picture of anyone involved and all I could tell you about PSU is that I'd guess it was in Pennslyvania somewhere. I am not a big sports fan, I am a big fan of humanity. I think a lot of people have lost sight of humanity in all this and just need one more person to blame, one more person to punish. So keep the punishments going and when you're done with everyone associated with PSU, then start with Ohio State, Oregan, USC, Va Tech, Fla State and on and on until you reach Bill and Ted's Excellent Community College. Because everyone one of them probably has a worse culture than what you see at PSU.
The word is intolerence...and it is the thing that is driving this. The trouble with intolerence is that when you practice it so much, you become intolerent of everything and everyone and forget the word human.
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Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Interesting take on why the NCAA came down with sanctions so quickly, and why Penn State consented so quickly to the punishment. The criminal investigation is not over. Federal child abuse crimes took place at Penn State. The investigation and criminal charges are to come. By accepting the punishment now it would be difficult for the NCAA to reopen the punishment phase and "pile on" more. They did reserve the right to add more punishment if new facts come to light.
The fat lady has not sung yet on the Penn State scandal.
The fat lady has not sung yet on the Penn State scandal.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
I'm on the same side as you, but gloating doesn't become you. Whether you mean it or not, this is what it looks like to me.
bflynn
Final Approach
What do you think you were right about? That leadership at PSU attempted to cover up a known crime in order to protect the university from scandal?
Did you even know all the facts before you jumped to think the worst of someone? Because you're still wrong.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
There is a difference between gloating and pointing out the blind obedience and loyalty others on POA has when the facts came out as they defended Penn State. They are cowards for not admitting they were wrong.
bflynn
Final Approach
Someone who is loyal is not necessarily wrong. Do you not see that there are other options?
You reach your point based on information that you're sure is correct. Because you're so certain of it, there is only one possible truth.
If you backtrack and try to understand that not everyone shares your certainty of truth, then perhaps you can realize that the disagreement comes for a measured and rational disagreement of the circumstances, not because someone is a coward.
You choose to think the worst of someone when it isn't necessary. It's a fault that is far too common today and causes some of our worst problems.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is not about back tracking, or taking a position before the trial. It is about after the verdict has been handed down and he people who got it wrong do not want to face the music and admit they were wrong. "Coward" may be harsh, I have a tendency to call it like it is.
What word would you use to describe people who cannot admit they were wrong? You seem like a reasonable person. I will take your definition and stop calling them cowards. I have made my point and it is time to move on.
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silver-eagle
En-Route
I often wonder where the parents are when crap like this happens. Then I harken back to the days I was a manager of a little league team, later the president, and organizer of the traveling team and realize that the kids come from families that frequently use these after school or extra curricular activities to DUMP their kids on an unpaid babysitter. Then the next thought that comes to mind is how can it go on for YEARS without some child squealing and think, they just got DUMPED there and they know it.
It is a despicable crime, made worse by the fact that management were made aware of it. The NCAA should have waited until the criminal phase was complete but in the very least should revoke their charter. They should never be allowed to play in the NCAA again.
It is a despicable crime, made worse by the fact that management were made aware of it. The NCAA should have waited until the criminal phase was complete but in the very least should revoke their charter. They should never be allowed to play in the NCAA again.
![\__[Ô]__/](/community/data/avatars/m/12/12009.jpg?1457665956){kind=avatar}
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Pre-takeoff checklist
Appears the latest story is that the sanctions were the result of secret negotiations between NCAA and Penn State after PSU learned they were facing a 4 year ban on play. I guess they were so quick to consent because they knew the alternative was worse.
I seem to recall that when the head of the NCAA announced the sanctions, he denied there was any negotiation with Penn State about them. If my memory's accurate, he gave a whole speech about the wrongness of a culture that lets these abuses slide to keep the football team playing ... and then proceeded to lie about the fact that he cut a deal with that same institution in order to keep the football team playing.
EDIT:
found it at 27:15
Not quite what i remembered, but it does contradict the stories circulating about negotiations between people at PSU and NCAA.
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Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
\__[Ô]__/;952187 said:Appears the latest story is that the sanctions were the result of secret negotiations between NCAA and Penn State after PSU learned they were facing a 4 year ban on play. I guess they were so quick to consent because they knew the alternative was worse.
I seem to recall that when the head of the NCAA announced the sanctions, he denied there was any negotiation with Penn State about them. If my memory's accurate, he gave a whole speech about the wrongness of a culture that lets these abuses slide to keep the football team playing ... and then proceeded to lie about the fact that he cut a deal with that same institution in order to keep the football team playing.
100%
Well said, great post, insiteful deduction.
Welcome David.
ElPaso Pilot
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ElPaso Pilot
Well, in this case he created a non-profit to serve at-risk children that he apparently selected and groomed his victims from, therefore avoiding pesky details like engaged parents.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Well, maybe not nearly as egregious as Sandusky but, wow...
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
) and he put these charges on his University Credit Card. "One of the charges included a $2,000 tip on a $4,400 bill at a nightclub billed as the “only Vegas strip club on the Strip.”" He paid the money back but still...
How does a reasonable person think this won't bite them in the butt?
How does one spend $7500 at a Vegas Gentlmen's Club? Did he get laid? (honest question, never been to a Vegas t*tty bar, don't know the rates.)
Why is the university only concerned about the money and apparently not too concerned about his actions and the morality of said actions? (rhetorical question, it is the athletic department afterall)
He's the "Director of Video Operations" for cripes sake!!! Ohhh boy, I certainly want a guy like this in charge of videotaping the volleyball team that my daughter plays on!
Story:
http://www.kmov.com/home/Mizzou-cracks-down-on-credit-card-use-175479861.html
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
) and he put these charges on his University Credit Card. "One of the charges included a $2,000 tip on a $4,400 bill at a nightclub billed as the “only Vegas strip club on the Strip.”" He paid the money back but still...How does a reasonable person think this won't bite them in the butt?
How does one spend $7500 at a Vegas Gentlmen's Club? Did he get laid? (honest question, never been to a Vegas t*tty bar, don't know the rates.)
Why is the university only concerned about the money and apparently not too concerned about his actions and the morality of said actions? (rhetorical question, it is the athletic department afterall)
He's the "Director of Video Operations" for cripes sake!!! Ohhh boy, I certainly want a guy like this in charge of videotaping the volleyball team that my daughter plays on!
Story:
http://www.kmov.com/home/Mizzou-cracks-down-on-credit-card-use-175479861.html
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Florida Cracker
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Florida Cracker
Well, maybe not nearly as egregious as Sandusky but, wow...
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
How does a reasonable person think this won't bite them in the butt?
How does one spend $7500 at a Vegas Gentlmen's Club? Did he get laid? (honest question, never been to a Vegas t*tty bar, don't know the rates.)
Why is the university only concerned about the money and apparently not too concerned about his actions and the morality of said actions? (rhetorical question, it is the athletic department afterall)
He's the "Director of Video Operations" for cripes sake!!! Ohhh boy, I certainly want a guy like this in charge of videotaping the volleyball team that my daughter plays on!
Story:
http://www.kmov.com/home/Mizzou-cracks-down-on-credit-card-use-175479861.html
I would opine that he was paying the charges rang up while "recruiting." A group of highly recruited, high school football stars could go through a lot of money in an evening at a Las vegas strip club.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Well, maybe not nearly as egregious as Sandusky but, wow...
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
I agree, charging that to a University credit card is major bad juju, and he should be in plenty of hot water pay back or no.
As for the rest of the rant, I honestly don't care if he bumped fuzzes with a lady of rentable virtue. I don't care how much money he dropped. That's between him and his family. I've made personal stops on business trips, I think we all have. Granted, I don't blow that kind of money (or any kind of money, for that matter) in such establishments, but that doesn't really matter.
The guy is an adult and can do as he pleases. That's sort of the basis of this great nation of ours. So long as he doesn't violate any laws I don't' see where it's anyone's business. Until he improperly expenses a P card. Then there's trouble.
Sac Arrow
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Snorting his way across the USA
Well, maybe not nearly as egregious as Sandusky but, wow...
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
How does a reasonable person think this won't bite them in the butt?
How does one spend $7500 at a Vegas Gentlmen's Club? Did he get laid? (honest question, never been to a Vegas t*tty bar, don't know the rates.)
Why is the university only concerned about the money and apparently not too concerned about his actions and the morality of said actions? (rhetorical question, it is the athletic department afterall)
He's the "Director of Video Operations" for cripes sake!!! Ohhh boy, I certainly want a guy like this in charge of videotaping the volleyball team that my daughter plays on!
Story:
http://www.kmov.com/home/Mizzou-cracks-down-on-credit-card-use-175479861.html
A combination of alcohol and four digit hos could conceivably rack up that kind of bill over a weekend. Yeah he probably had to pay for it.
denverpilot
Tied Down
And now you know how NCAA retains their unpaid slaves.
N747JB
Final Approach
Mike Price was ABOUT to sign a contract with Alabama as head football coach, worth $10 million dollars. He went to a strip club the night before a pro-am golf tournament and apparently brought a woman to his room the same night. His wife and the university were not ammused. 
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/04/spt_wwwsptfoot1a4.html
He went to a strip club the night before a pro-am golf tournament and apparently brought a woman to his room the same night. His wife and the university were not ammused. http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/04/spt_wwwsptfoot1a4.html
Well, maybe not nearly as egregious as Sandusky but, wow...
Mizzou's Athletic Department Director of Video Operations, Mike Schumacher, spent over $7500 in a Vegas Gentlemen's Club on an official trip (and he was by himself!
How does a reasonable person think this won't bite them in the butt?
How does one spend $7500 at a Vegas Gentlmen's Club? Did he get laid? (honest question, never been to a Vegas t*tty bar, don't know the rates.)
Why is the university only concerned about the money and apparently not too concerned about his actions and the morality of said actions? (rhetorical question, it is the athletic department afterall)
He's the "Director of Video Operations" for cripes sake!!! Ohhh boy, I certainly want a guy like this in charge of videotaping the volleyball team that my daughter plays on!
Story:
http://www.kmov.com/home/Mizzou-cracks-down-on-credit-card-use-175479861.html
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
As John Cougar said...(I still can't bring myself to call him Mellencamp)...
And the walls...come tumblin' down!
"The "conspiracy of silence" that protected Jerry Sandusky extended all the way to the top at Penn State, prosecutors said Thursday as they charged former university President Graham Spanier with hushing up child sexual abuse allegations against the former assistant football coach.
Prosecutors also added counts against two of Spanier's former underlings, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, who were already charged with lying to a grand jury."
Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/graham-spanier-charged-penn-state-sandusky_n_2057723.html
I didn't hear much about it after the initial AP report that I read last week. Kinda got lost in all the election reporting.
And the walls...come tumblin' down!
"The "conspiracy of silence" that protected Jerry Sandusky extended all the way to the top at Penn State, prosecutors said Thursday as they charged former university President Graham Spanier with hushing up child sexual abuse allegations against the former assistant football coach.
Prosecutors also added counts against two of Spanier's former underlings, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, who were already charged with lying to a grand jury."
Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/graham-spanier-charged-penn-state-sandusky_n_2057723.html
I didn't hear much about it after the initial AP report that I read last week. Kinda got lost in all the election reporting.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
May they all rot in a jail cell for 10 years. 
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I think Penn State should have been stripped of it's football team. Honestly, the culture that protects a known pedophile should not be allowed to endure.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
I said something similar early in this thread and many pointed out (rightfully so) that this would hurt many innocent people.
Instead all proceeds from football should go to charity for 20 years or so (for the same number of years that Sandusky was allowed to do the deed).
They were fined $60M. I think that's five years' worth of proceeds IIRC...not enough in my opinion.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
The problem is a place where the culture was allowed to germinate just isn't fit for this sort of activity. Yes, it would be a pity for the students. But students come and go, the folks who did all the bad stuff were part of the infrastructure, and that is far, far worse.
Lets be honest. What amount of money is sufficient to pay for that kind of wrongdoing? I would have liked to have seen Penn State stripped of it's program.
The NCAA has almost no credibility left. They came down like a hammer on the Bucks (currently 10-0!) for some tattoos, and did less for teams that had gross financial and moral misconduct. Penn State's problems were institutional, and for that the institution needs to be dealt with, no matter who gets hurt. If the students really want football they can leave.
Florida Cracker
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I agree. Penn State should have it's entire athletic Dept closed for five years and then if they wish, they are free to restart it, as long as they reemploy no one from the offending regime.
Any athlete wishing to transfer to another school should NOT have to wait out a year, as is typical, since they're not the offending persons.
By the time five years rolls around, it will take 10 more to get back to some semblance of what it was before in terms of athletic competition.
denverpilot
Tied Down
The South Park episode that likened NCAA athletes to slaves pretty well covered it. Imagine the power those kids would have had to stop the evil behavior of their captors, ahem... coaches, if they just got paid for their talent instead of it going to the school.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Nate,
I've always (for at least 25 years now) asserted that college athletics need to do one of two things.
1. Blow it wide open as a semi-pro league...with pay.
or
2. Keep it amateur and only allow players from Missouri to play for Missouri schools.
One extreme or the other. They've repeatedly proven that the inbetweens don't work...ethically.
I've always (for at least 25 years now) asserted that college athletics need to do one of two things.
1. Blow it wide open as a semi-pro league...with pay.
or
2. Keep it amateur and only allow players from Missouri to play for Missouri schools.
One extreme or the other. They've repeatedly proven that the inbetweens don't work...ethically.