PE or DPE for PPL checkride?

Hiring a freelance designated pilot examiner (DPE) whom you pay cash to, or trying to schedule a real FAA guy (PE) from an FSDO who is free and can conduct your checkride. Which would be preferred?
 
DPE: appointed by the FAA, does not work for the faa, you have to pay him for the ride

ASI: FAA examiner, works for the FAA, won't charge for the ride but scheduling may be tuff.


I'd go with a DPE, there is a reason most people go with DPEs.
 
Don't overthink it before even starting. Your instructor will know the local FSDO customs and DPEs and their typical schedules. They'll have phone numbers and contact info and what-not, also. Don't worry about it yet.

In most FSDOs you'll be working with DPEs for nearly everything except CFI Initial rides. And in really busy FSDOs (and you're in one of those if you're in AZ) Feds will probably assign a DPE for an Initial CFI ride, also.

You can always ask NOT to use a DPE in a busy FSDO, and expect a many month wait until a Fed becomes available, for example. You mentioned you expect a fast schedule, so obviously there's no point in doing that.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't overthink it before even starting.
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Not really overthinking anything. As I'm reading through all of the training threads here, plus all the FAA material that I've downloaded. Occasionally I come across something that just triggers a thought provoking question. Really no rhyme or reason. Just throwing it out there to get varying opinions, which I enjoy because it causes me to really dig down and research the FARS and various other material and try to form my own opinions.

A good example is a thread here on being compensated (or not compensated) for business use of an airplane. I read the FARs, legal opinions, and whatnot and even went as far as to call an aviation attorney to get his opinion on how it all would pertain to my use of an airplane for my business. I laid out the various scenarios and he said no problem, I'm good to go. ;)
 
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James331 said:
I'd go with a DPE, there is a reason most people go with DPEs.
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I'd go with a DPE too, if you want any chance of getting a checkride any time soon. About the only way the OP is going to get a ride with an ASI is if he's doing an initial CFI ride. Even a lot of the initial CFI rides are getting dine by DPEs these days.
 
Most FSDOs don't have time to allow an inspector to go up on a PPL checkride, so you don't normally get a choice.

Another thing to consider is the condition of the aircraft when an inspector comes for a checkride. They expect everything to be in tip-top shape, whereas DPEs have a little more discretion when it comes to when they are or are not willing to fly in an aircraft with an applicant. I've seen checkrides discontinued by inspectors over things as small as nav light outages.
 
I'd go with a DPE just because you likely won't have to wait as long to schedule the checkride.
 
I didn't use either. I was at a part 141 school with examining authority so I went up with their chief pilot (the one authorized).

As pointed out, the FAA has been shedding actual doing work for as long as I have been flying. The FAA employees tend to limit themselves to initial CFI rides, medical flight checks, and 709's. They direct you to the local monopoly of politically connected DPEs approved. It's a corrupt system, but that's the way it is.

You won't tend to get an inspector to do any inspecting work these days either. You'll be directed to a DER.

It's a bad scene. The FAA tells you to go use a private entity so they don't have to do work, but they won't set up a system of fair and open private enterprise for the creation of those entities.
 
I did my private with an FAA examiner. No problem. But this may vary from FSDO to FSDO.
 
You're a long ways away from even needing to think about this subject. You'll most likely use a DPE, but that's the last of your concern at the moment

Your CFI will point you in the right direction, so focus on the training for the time being.
 
azblackbird said:
Not really overthinking anything. As I'm reading through all of the training threads here, plus all the FAA material that I've downloaded. Occasionally I come across something that just triggers a thought provoking question. Really no rhyme or reason. Just throwing it out there to get varying opinions, which I enjoy because it causes me to really dig down and research the FARS and various other material and try to form my own opinions.

A good example is a thread here on being compensated (or not compensated) for business use of an airplane. I read the FARs, legal opinions, and whatnot and even went as far as to call an aviation attorney to get his opinion on how it all would pertain to my use of an airplane for my business. I laid out the various scenarios and he said no problem, I'm good to go. ;)
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You are overthinking EVERYTHING.

So much so, that I have doubts that your story is real.

Really. You're worried about your DPE before even taking your first lesson? You want to know who your instrument instructor is? Why not schedule your ATP sim session while you're at it?
 
MAKG1 said:
You are overthinking EVERYTHING.

So much so, that I have doubts that your story is real.

Really. You're worried about your DPE before even taking your first lesson? You want to know who your instrument instructor is? Why not schedule your ATP sim session while you're at it?
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I think he is busy applying for a 777 Captain position with United.
 
IMO, a relationship built over time between DPE and flight school/instructor can be advantageous.

I did three rides with the Feds.
1) initial CFI
2) VFR 135 SE gig
3) 135 check airman authority

All went well, but clearly a higher stress level.
 
Ryanb said:
Your CFI will point you in the right direction, so focus on the training for the time being.
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I kind of figured that. Just posed the question since I was looking through several databases on CFI's and saw that some were DPEs and some worked in an FSDO office.
 
Harold Rutila said:
Most FSDOs don't have time to allow an inspector to go up on a PPL checkride, so you don't normally get a choice.

Another thing to consider is the condition of the aircraft when an inspector comes for a checkride. They expect everything to be in tip-top shape, whereas DPEs have a little more discretion when it comes to when they are or are not willing to fly in an aircraft with an applicant. I've seen checkrides discontinued by inspectors over things as small as nav light outages.
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That brings back a memory. My PPL was done at GADO, yeah it was that long ago. He went over the plane with a fine tooth comb. The checkride almost seemed an afterthought. Can't blame them though. They are after all going up in the air in the plane.
 
luvflyin said:
That brings back a memory. My PPL was done at GADO, yeah it was that long ago. He went over the plane with a fine tooth comb. The checkride almost seemed an afterthought. Can't blame them though. They are after all going up in the air in the plane.
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I've heard this story from multiple folks also. If you do a Fed ride, expect some experts in airworthiness to pour over the aircraft logs in some FSDOs.

Plus, "airworthiness" is a hot button item for our FSDO right now. I can only make guesses about how that came about, but watching over a couple of decades it comes down to "Someone flew a checkride in an aircraft that wasn't airworthy and it came to light somehow.", and I'd put $20 on it.
 
denverpilot said:
I've heard this story from multiple folks also. If you do a Fed ride, expect some experts in airworthiness to pour over the aircraft logs in some FSDOs.

Plus, "airworthiness" is a hot button item for our FSDO right now. I can only make guesses about how that came about, but watching over a couple of decades it comes down to "Someone flew a checkride in an aircraft that wasn't airworthy and it came to light somehow.", and I'd put $20 on it.
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Happened to me on a Fed ride (VFR part 135 ride).
Showed up with a C172 and did the oral. On the mean time another fed was mulling over the aircraft logs and found an AD not complied with (seat tracks).
Feds were cool... obviously no ride, but they gave me a ferry permit to get home.
 
azblackbird said:
Meaning some CFIs I found were independent who were DPEs and others I found actually worked for the FAA in the local FSDO facility.
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It still doesn't make sense.

Inspectors are inspectors. Designees are designees. CFI is a much broader group that the former two are a subset of.

Inspectors and designees when doing those jobs are not doing the job of a CFI.

So to say you were looking for CFIs and found out some were one thing and some were another, misses something. Most aren't either one.
 
Kritchlow said:
Happened to me on a Fed ride (VFR part 135 ride).
Showed up with a C172 and did the oral. On the mean time another fed was mulling over the aircraft logs and found an AD not complied with (seat tracks).
Feds were cool... obviously no ride, but they gave me a ferry permit to get home.
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Yeah, sounds about normal. And you can't really blame them for it. Some inspector goes flying with someone and has an accident and the aircraft was later found to be unairworthy... that'd just be a PR mess for them.

That said, there's one person who's here who I won't call out and they don't need to say anything who has a story of a FSDO going all nuts over a repair done decades prior, and local mechanics / AI finally having to get in their face over it and tell them there was nothing wrong with the aircraft and that they'd been signing it off as airworthy forever...

Had to do with something else interesting about the logs, and if I go into more detail it can identify the person and the airplane, so I'll stop. Wasn't local to me here. Different FSDO.

Anyway, point is, the airplane was fine and that FSDO made a big fuss over it and eventually gave in and flew the ride.

Obviously that's not the norm, but stuff can happen.
 
denverpilot said:
It still doesn't make sense
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One is an independent contractor, the other is an employee of the FAA. One you pay cash for your check ride. The other can take no cash for your check ride. Both may have tons of certs and ratings.

Is that better?
 
azblackbird said:
One is an independent contractor, the other is an employee of the FAA. One you pay cash for your check ride. The other can take no cash for your check ride. Both may have tons of certs and ratings.

Is that better?
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Yes. I was more wondering about this "database" you were referring to.

Anyway, you seem to get the idea.

It's rather unlikely you'll have the option, although you always truly have the option, if you don't want to wait about six months for a FSDO ride in most of AZ.

Where you at? Phoenix?
 
denverpilot said:
Where you at? Phoenix?
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Yes. I suppose if I really wanted to be a cheapskate and didn't want to pay a DPE, I could call in a favor and actually get an FAA examiner out of our local FSDO scheduled when the time comes. I think I'll just go with who my instructor recommends. ;)
 
Specifically, one is a contractor who in most places in the country is a part of an artificially limited cabal with the local FSDO. It's privatization at its ultimate worst, corrupt, expensive, and dangerous form.
 
flyingron said:
Specifically, one is a contractor who in most places in the country is a part of an artificially limited cabal with the local FSDO. It's privatization at its ultimate worst, corrupt, expensive, and dangerous form.
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I could see that happening with the wrong personalities involved and low numbers.

Our local group certainly seems quite on the ball, and the only quiet complaint I've heard locally is the darn prices. With as busy as we keep all of them, I can't even argue too much with their rates. I don't argue with them being able to make a reasonable living at it, considering their experience levels. A couple still have "day jobs" flying other stuff -- frankly they can get paid better doing that stuff than checkrides.

Local FSDO seems to have found a decent group of them. They do make some serious cash, but not necessarily as much as peers who fly business jets and what not, and they're all generally really good at what they do.

There's ONE who's had some accusations of some shenanigans, and the CFIs generally avoid him.

They're ramping up a new guy, too. I've met him and he seems like he'll get up to speed quick, and truly cares about doing it well. He's limited to Private rides for a year, which is pretty common, I hear.

I think the key is that the local FSDO has to have enough appointees that anything like that shows up in a significant numbers drop for the one who's doing inappropriate stuff. If they're light on appointments, they don't see it as easily. In some areas the economics pushes them not to appoint many, because there's just not enough rides.

Here, where there's a pretty steady stream of rides, the problems with the Designee system are less pronounced, I think. They all have reasonably busy schedules and there's not even much competition in the form of, "Why'd you use the other guy?" If they ask, it's mostly as a joke/ribbing, and they'll be busy enough tomorrow they won't really remember or stew over it.

As a new CFI I was kinda hoping to use DPE number three for this next ride, just to get a feel for all of them in the area, but it worked out better to schedule with the guy I did the Commerical Multi with for the Commercial SE add on. The number three guy is insanely busy with his regular flying job and a big family and life changes.
 
The Scottsdale FSDO has, IMO, plenty of DPE's. The issue is that there are so many of them that no one will use... There was a 5.5 HOUR oral exam at my flight school the other day for an instrument ride. Then, the ride didn't happen because of some issue with the plane that the DPE was wrong about...
 
DPE doesn't need to be sent a 1099 for taxes. He's like a Surveyor or Lawyer. Professional.
 
You are right, attorney's are an exception.
I should have posted "They are like surveyors"
 
denverpilot said:
Why would an applicant want it?
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Really, they wouldn't. Only a business paying someone more than $600 has to issue a 1099. Unless the OP is planning to pay for his checkride with business funds, he has no need for it. And, since it's a PPL checkride, it would probably be inappropriate for his business to be paying for it.
 
W-9s are used to gather the information that a person or entity, engaged in a trade or business, needs in order to issue a 1099 to report to the IRS payment of more than $600 to another person. It's designed to keep people honest. Personal payments are not reportable.

While the W-9/1099 process doesn't apply here, I think JimNTexas is merely implying in post #29 that DPEs may not faithfully report all of their all-cash testing income to the IRS.
 
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ragedracer1977 said:
Really, they wouldn't. Only a business paying someone more than $600 has to issue a 1099. Unless the OP is planning to pay for his checkride with business funds, he has no need for it. And, since it's a PPL checkride, it would probably be inappropriate for his business to be paying for it.
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I knew. I was doing the "pose a question" thing to see if the person who said it would say what they really meant. :)
 
register@teamandras.com said:
W-9s are used to gather the information that a person or entity, engaged in a trade or business, needs in order to issue a 1099 to report to the IRS payment of more than $600 to another person. It's designed to keep people honest. Personal payments are not reportable.

While the W-9/1099 process doesn't apply here, I think JimNTexas is merely implying in post #29 that DPEs may not faithfully report all of their all-cash testing income to the IRS.
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I would guess they probably do, but I don't know for sure. The government knows exactly how many checkrides a DPE has given, and maybe they share that info with the IRS. I guess the only thing they wouldn't know is how much they charged for the rides.
 
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