Paris attack.... how might we protect ourselves?

I guess when the SZ is closed these discussions, furthering aviation, will become common place in HT. :dunno:
 
You know what's funny?

If more of the Muslims followed their own religion, they wouldn't go around bombing/shooting people so much.

If we Christians followed ours better we'd be brining more of the refugees into our homes because they're in need in spite of the danger.

These religions both teach the best of values, ones we wish all or at least more people would follow. It's too bad we human beings are so terrible.
 
French police are arresting peaceful anti muslim demonstrators. And ignoring violence against those demonstrators. That does it I'll never eat a Burger King Croissanwich again.
 
Norman said:
Damned shame the SZ was closed because that is where this thread belongs.
Click to expand...


Never visited SpinZone, but, it must have been an outlet for racists if this thread indicates what was normal there.
 
Dav8or said:
Yep. Likely we eventually will end up rounding up any and all Muslims in this country and send them to concentration camps in the desert. It's OK, it's for our safety and we get to keep all their property.
Click to expand...

It seemed to produce pretty good results in its time. How can you argue against success ? Besides these are a desert people to begin with, certainly they'd be happier with the desert climate versus the one in Dearborn !
 
JoseCuervo said:
Never visited SpinZone, but, it must have been an outlet for racists if this thread indicates what was normal there.
Click to expand...

It's not too late. It's still active for another six weeks.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Never visited SpinZone, but, it must have been an outlet for racists if this thread indicates what was normal there.
Click to expand...

Fearless Tower said:
You got that feeling too?
Click to expand...

No kidding. Atleast some normal people are here.




Art VanDelay said:
It seemed to produce pretty good results in its time. How can you argue against success ? Besides these are a desert people to begin with, certainly they'd be happier with the desert climate versus the one in Dearborn !
Click to expand...

This thread has gotten bad enough I don't know if that's a joke or you're actually a white supremacist.

If not a joke I have a great place for you and all your buds here to hangout in place of the spin zone:

https://www.kkk.com/
 
JoseCuervo said:
Never visited SpinZone, but, it must have been an outlet for racists if this thread indicates what was normal there.
Click to expand...

I got news for you amigo - racism is in our DNA. We are ALL programmed to spot differences and be wary of same. It goes all the way back to the caveman days.

The first caveman to come up over the hill and see another caveman who was in every physical way identical himself except he wore his leopard skin over his left shoulder and our boy wore his over his right sensed there was gonna be a problem. We would like to think we've evolved beyond all this - we also think we'll maybe win the lottery too !

Kumbahyah, kumbahyay now let's all have some granola and take a nice nap.
 
My response to the news was to grab a few extra mags for my CCW as I was out and about. The next night I was at House of Blues, with their notorious no-weapons policy. I felt naked, and kept scanning the exits, egress and ingress points.

I have no idea how I will respond or act if ever confronted with something like that, but by carrying, I have another tool in my toolbox besides duck-cover-pray, or run-like-hell...
 
ISIS doesn't need to come to America to spread fear, hate, and violence; we have plenty already.
 
Gerhardt said:
It's not too late. It's still active for another six weeks.
Click to expand...


I will continue to avoid SZ so that I don't form even more opinions on the racists that populate there, and cause me to ignore their aviation information.

But seriously, there are some nutcases being exposed here.
 
PPC1052 said:
I am sure nothing will ever prove anything to you. But the idea that the Koran does not teach to murder "infidels" is ill informed.
Click to expand...

Ok here's what I don't understand about this whole argument that all Muslims are our enemy.

If this is true, then what are we proposing to do about it? Round them up into camps? Go to war with all Muslim nations? Something that at least sounds less dystopian? What does all this accomplish? I hope it outweighs alienating some potential and current allies.
 
cowman said:
Ok here's what I don't understand about this whole argument that all Muslims are our enemy.
Click to expand...

This may be where our disconnect is. I don't believe that all Muslims are our enemy. It is, unfortunately, messier than that. There are differing points of emphasis amongst those of the Islamic faith. But Islam is not, at heart, a religion of peace, and the Koran definitely does include many teachings that provide religious support for many of these actions. To claim that these actions are not based on Islamic principals is false. Really, spend some time reading that Atlantic article. It does a pretty good job of explaining what I am talking about. It's long, I know. But worth the read.
 
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Thanks for posting that link. Like most of us, I wake up each morning hoping yesterday's atrocity (which seems to almost always have the word Muhummad associated with it somewhere) is just another anomaly . . . an unpleasant burp in the relatively civilized tenor of life we enjoy and take for granted in this country. An airliner being blown up, a U.S. Army psychiatrist cold bloodedly shooting his fellow soldiers, a bomb here a bomb there, an "honor killing" here, a daughter having her genitalia mutilated there - all of this will go away with a little more patience and tolerance and education so I put the negativity in its place and go on about my business. I think we all do that. As pilots we have some really neat things to occupy our time and thoughts so no need to give these crazies any more attention than we would a little pile of dog poop that might be in our path.

This freedom to put such things aside, to put them in their place as I put my attention on more interesting and rewarding topics is due to my good fortune in having been born into the relatively free society I live in. I only know enough about the Mohammedans to recognize their cultures as toxic. "By their fruits ye shall know them" resonates and so I just keep my distance. Live and let live. The Mohammedans don't seem to want to live and let live however. They continue to intrude upon the realities of others, including me, so I can't help but wonder who are these people, these cultures? I have little to no native interest in knowing more about Islamic societies but since they continue to be so intrusive I guess I better spend a little time trying to understand why they are so annoying, so toxic.

This article is excellent. Please pass it on to others.
 
That wasn't a vote for anything. It is just a thank you for adding an intelligent, well-researched layer of good information to the conversation.
 
MikeS said:
That wasn't a vote for anything. It is just a thank you for adding an intelligent, well-researched layer of good information to the conversation.
Click to expand...
I took it as a vote of confidence for the article. Not my post.
 
PPC1052 said:
This may be where our disconnect is. I don't believe that all Muslims are our enemy. It is, unfortunately, messier than that. There are differing points of emphasis amongst those of the Islamic faith. But Islam is not, at heart, a religion of peace, and the Koran definitely does include many teachings that provide religious support for many of these actions. To claim that these actions are not based on Islamic principals is false. Really, spend some time reading that Atlantic article. It does a pretty good job of explaining what I am talking about. It's long, I know. But worth the read.
Click to expand...

Ok, this I get. I would suggest though, that this conflict might have to do more with traditional things- conflicts over power and resources than actual scripture. Using and abusing religious text to whip a population into a frenzy and justify a war over something else is a pretty old human story.

I'll have to check out that article, I admit to only skimming through but the concepts seemed familiar.

One hand grenade I'll throw into the thread in the meantime is this. I think the only two ways to deal with ISIS in an effective way are these..

1. A huge WWII scale military mobilization of most western nations followed by a complete takeover of the entire middle east and heavy handed treatment of any suspected extremists. We're talking big tax increases and possible drafts domestically. We'd have to educate and westernize the heck out all those people, we'd have to maintain political and military control for a couple of decades, and we'd loose a lot of treasure and oh yes there will be a lot of death. Honestly, it would be something of a horror. I know I'm not selling it well, it's not my preference, but in my mind this works better than whatever it is we think we're doing now with small scale attacks and arming this and that group.

2. Walk away. Get out of the middle east, if we need to contain them fine, if they carry out an attack and we need to go hunt down the specific person(s) responsible, fine but keep it targeted and minimal. Let ISIS conquer the whole region, let them form their Islamic state. Yes, that will be bloody... for people in that region. Sure, I know we're all afraid of these guys having that level of power and potentially WMDs. However, at this point they'd be a large nation state with, most importantly, central leadership. That's something we can negotiate with, form treaties, trade deals, etc with. That's something we can actually threaten economically and militarily. That's also going to be a modern wealthy nation with higher standards of living and education. Not the kind of place that breeds extremism.

I want to do #2.
 
JoseCuervo said:
I will continue to avoid SZ so that I don't form even more opinions on the racists that populate there, and cause me to ignore their aviation information.

But seriously, there are some nutcases being exposed here.
Click to expand...

Another smartest man in the room who professes that anyone with whom he disagrees is a racist and nutcase.

You wouldn't have done very well in there, smart move.
 
PaulS said:
Another smartest man in the room who professes that anyone with whom he disagrees is a racist and nutcase.

You wouldn't have done very well in there, smart move.
Click to expand...

What do you expect from a guy who calls himself by a brand of tequila.
 
JoseCuervo said:
I will continue to avoid SZ so that I don't form even more opinions on the racists that populate there, and cause me to ignore their aviation information.

But seriously, there are some nutcases being exposed here.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that Mohammedanism is a "race".
 
cowman said:
Ok, this I get. I would suggest though, that this conflict might have to do more with traditional things- conflicts over power and resources than actual scripture. Using and abusing religious text to whip a population into a frenzy and justify a war over something else is a pretty old human story.

I'll have to check out that article, I admit to only skimming through but the concepts seemed familiar.

One hand grenade I'll throw into the thread in the meantime is this. I think the only two ways to deal with ISIS in an effective way are these..

1. A huge WWII scale military mobilization of most western nations followed by a complete takeover of the entire middle east and heavy handed treatment of any suspected extremists. We're talking big tax increases and possible drafts domestically. We'd have to educate and westernize the heck out all those people, we'd have to maintain political and military control for a couple of decades, and we'd loose a lot of treasure and oh yes there will be a lot of death. Honestly, it would be something of a horror. I know I'm not selling it well, it's not my preference, but in my mind this works better than whatever it is we think we're doing now with small scale attacks and arming this and that group.

2. Walk away. Get out of the middle east, if we need to contain them fine, if they carry out an attack and we need to go hunt down the specific person(s) responsible, fine but keep it targeted and minimal. Let ISIS conquer the whole region, let them form their Islamic state. Yes, that will be bloody... for people in that region. Sure, I know we're all afraid of these guys having that level of power and potentially WMDs. However, at this point they'd be a large nation state with, most importantly, central leadership. That's something we can negotiate with, form treaties, trade deals, etc with. That's something we can actually threaten economically and militarily. That's also going to be a modern wealthy nation with higher standards of living and education. Not the kind of place that breeds extremism.

I want to do #2.
Click to expand...

I would suggest going back and looking at the rise of ISIS for more clues about what it is about, and what it is, and what it needs to sustain itself. ISIS is an organization that has taken over large swaths of territory formerly belonging to multiple states in the middle east. Muslim recruits show up on their door step every day to join the cause. Why? It is because ISIS holds itself out in both words and deeds as being the Caliphate prophesied in the Koran. As long as it holds territory, and governs as a quasi-state, its claims to legitimacy continue to grow. It is very different than Al Qaida, or the Taliban. To my thinking, the West must divest them of their state, and sever their claims of legitimacy, and return the land back to the prior states. As long as ISIS continues unchecked, it will be a magnet for jihadis and donations, and will be a launching pad for terrorists activities as they try to project their power beyond their territory.
 
PPC1052 said:
I don't believe that all Muslims are our enemy. It is, unfortunately, messier than that.
Click to expand...

There is a decided lack of condemnation of violence of this kind from the world of Islam. I hear small pockets of it from time to time from individuals, but it pales next to roar of approval from the Muslims celebrating in the streets after these events.

Henning said:
ISIS doesn't need to come to America to spread fear, hate, and violence; we have plenty already.
Click to expand...

ISIS doesn't want to come here to spread fear. They want to come here to kill us.

There is abundant evidence they want to come by walking in the front door with an invitation. But there are also those who refuse to look at that evidence even when it is presented in obvious forms. My opposition to immigration is based in safety for our country. Anyone who claims otherwise should re-examine their prejudice.
 
Last edited:
bflynn said:
There is a decided lack of condemnation of violence of this kind from the world of Islam. I hear small pockets of it from time to time from individuals, but it pales next to roar of approval from the Muslims celebrating in the streets after these events.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
bflynn said:
ISIS doesn't want to come here to spread fear. They want to come here to kill us.
Click to expand...

Not exactly.

ISIS stated goal is to precipitate the end of the world and they believe that will happen in an epic battle with the west in Syria.

I believe we will eventually see Paris style attacks here in the US, but the primary motivation will be an attempt to get the US to send troops to the ground in Syria.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not exactly.

ISIS stated goal is to precipitate the end of the world and they believe that will happen in an epic battle with the west in Syria.

I believe we will eventually see Paris style attacks here in the US, but the primary motivation will be an attempt to get the US to send troops to the ground in Syria.
Click to expand...

I think it might be time to precipitate the end of ISIS's world and send them on their way.
 
PPC1052 said:
I would suggest going back and looking at the rise of ISIS for more clues about what it is about, and what it is, and what it needs to sustain itself. ISIS is an organization that has taken over large swaths of territory formerly belonging to multiple states in the middle east. Muslim recruits show up on their door step every day to join the cause. Why? It is because ISIS holds itself out in both words and deeds as being the Caliphate prophesied in the Koran. As long as it holds territory, and governs as a quasi-state, its claims to legitimacy continue to grow. It is very different than Al Qaida, or the Taliban. To my thinking, the West must divest them of their state, and sever their claims of legitimacy, and return the land back to the prior states. As long as ISIS continues unchecked, it will be a magnet for jihadis and donations, and will be a launching pad for terrorists activities as they try to project their power beyond their territory.
Click to expand...

I can't fault any particular point this except the most important one: How can this be achieved?

It seems like every action we've taken in that part of the world over the last century has at best solved a short term problem and created an even worse long term problem.

Also, given the state of the economy, how are we going to pay for all this?
 
cowman said:
I can't fault any particular point this except the most important one: How can this be achieved?

It seems like every action we've taken in that part of the world over the last century has at best solved a short term problem and created an even worse long term problem.

Also, given the state of the economy, how are we going to pay for all this?
Click to expand...

Unlike Iraq II and Afghanistan, it's not about winning hearts and minds. It's about killing, destroying, and returning the country side to the prior states. More like Iraq I. To me, the question is how can we not pay for it.
 
PPC1052 said:
Unlike Iraq II and Afghanistan, it's not about winning hearts and minds. It's about killing, destroying, and returning the country side to the prior states. More like Iraq I. To me, the question is how can we not pay for it.
Click to expand...

I heard where Donald Trump was going to have Mexico pay for this one.
 
PPC1052 said:
Unlike Iraq II and Afghanistan, it's not about winning hearts and minds. It's about killing, destroying, and returning the country side to the prior states. More like Iraq I. To me, the question is how can we not pay for it.
Click to expand...

Actually I think this is going to be more like when we armed ISIS to take out Assad, or put Saddam Hussein in power, or like when we armed and trained people like Bin Laden, or when we carved up the middle east after WWI, and so on.

This interventionist stuff blows back up in our faces more often than not. I see it as throwing money and lives down the toilet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top