Pakistan International Airlines crash

Most people in the West just don’t understand how things work in 3rd world countries. They assume the level of safety, integrity and competency is the same everywhere. It’s not.
 
Rein Hart said:
So one of the master warning alarm reasons could be gear not extended. It’s known the gear was not extended. Doesn’t take an airbus pilot to see what led to belly landing. ;)
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Yeah, it now seems as if they had the gear up and down a couple of times. I had assumed that it wasn't actually down the first time, because of their high speed, regardless of lever position.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Yeah, it now seems as if they had the gear up and down a couple of times. I had assumed that it wasn't actually down the first time, because of their high speed, regardless of lever position.
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Almost sounds like they were cycling the gear but got off by one - like they were retracting it when they thought they were extending it and vice versa.
 
TigerGene said:
Most people in the West just don’t understand how things work in 3rd world countries. They assume the level of safety, integrity and competency is the same everywhere. It’s not.
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Unfortunately it’s also not PC to mention it, so the misunderstanding pervades.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
One third with fake licenses - wow. One has to wonder about these 2 pilots.
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I suspect the entire issue was revealed when they checked the backgrounds/qualifications of the pilots in the accident. I expect that's part of the ICAO required protocol. One or both of the accident pilots were busted, and the investigation sprung from there.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
I suspect the entire issue was revealed when they checked the backgrounds/qualifications of the pilots in the accident. I expect that's part of the ICAO required protocol. One or both of the accident pilots were busted, and the investigation sprung from there.

Ron Wanttaja
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It's actually fairly well known. Pakistan and a few other countries a pilot license can be bribed or purchased.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Pakistan and a few other countries a pilot license can be bribed or purchased.
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Yikes, I guess it would be better if more broadly known. Then people can avoid flying on airlines from those countries. Scary. But not completely surprising I guess.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Vietnam checking the tickets of all Pakistani pilots - https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-v...ni-pilots-over-licence-concerns-idUKKBN2400CH
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This goes in cycles, and not just for Pakistan, but a few other countries as well. The last cycle of a bunch of fraudulent certificates was about 8 years ago.

This is not going away as long as there are CAA officials of various countries that can be bribed, and that counterfeiting certificates can easily be done.

Just keep this in mind if you ever get the desire to buy a ticket on a third world airline.
 
Talked to a pilot from one of the middle eastern countries some years back. He stated that in his airline there are two kinds of pilots: The ex-military folks who actually fly the planes, and then the FOs who who get a seat due to family connections. They are sent to the US to get the tickets but never fly anything bigger than a Seminole before they are put in the right seat. Its not a merit based system where people progress from FO to captain, you are either part of the 'in crowd' or you are not, and thats how it remains throughout your 'career'.
 
weilke said:
Talked to a pilot from one of the middle eastern countries some years back. He stated that in his airline there are two kinds of pilots: The ex-military folks who actually fly the planes, and then the FOs who who get a seat due to family connections. They are sent to the US to get the tickets but never fly anything bigger than a Seminole before they are put in the right seat. Its not a merit based system where people progress from FO to captain, you are either part of the 'in crowd' or you are not, and thats how it remains throughout your 'career'.
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For many foreign airlines this is how it works. What's really bad is the ex military types have received sub standard training by their government's military, and in a few countries the FO's are only trained locally and given a MPL (Multi Pilot License) which consist of a few hours in a C172 and then simulator training. Classic "blind leading the blind".
 
weilke said:
Talked to a pilot from one of the middle eastern countries some years back. He stated that in his airline there are two kinds of pilots: The ex-military folks who actually fly the planes, and then the FOs who who get a seat due to family connections. They are sent to the US to get the tickets but never fly anything bigger than a Seminole before they are put in the right seat. Its not a merit based system where people progress from FO to captain, you are either part of the 'in crowd' or you are not, and thats how it remains throughout your 'career'.
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Not restricted to the FO position or right seat, unfortunately. Nor are the "sent to the USA to get tickets" either. For a good example check out the accident report for the Gulf Air A320 accident in August 2000.
 
GRG55 said:
Not restricted to the FO position or right seat, unfortunately. Nor are the "sent to the USA to get tickets" either. For a good example check out the accident report for the Gulf Air A320 accident in August 2000.
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There are a few countries that are known to have very lax standards and even can be bribed to produce a certificate. For expat training, these are preferred over the US, Canada, Australia and the EU.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Just keep this in mind if you ever get the desire to buy a ticket on a third world airline.
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I do think caveat emptor is the best policy in general. Regulatory agencies can be captured by the industries they are supposed to regulate and their employees bribed. More likely in 3rd world countries.
 
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