Painting a plane....*beating head into the wall*

Would you strip or just overcoat a 182

  • sand and overcoat

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • full strip, re-etch, paint

    Votes: 20 100.0%
  • Total voters
    20
P

Prcpilot

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
17
Location
PRESCOTT VALLEY, AZ
Display Name
Display name:
PRCpilot
Okay, I am sure that this has been answered a million times over.... BUT I am looking at a 182 that has had original paint on it from good 'ol 1967. There is cracking, lifting, aligatoring, fantastic oxidation, and etc.

I cannot get a straight answer but I am trying to find out if I should sand it and have the painter do a top coat and a change of color on the existing stripes, or a full strip and reblast?

If you can provide links to some helpful articles, it would be greatly appreciated. ALSO, what exactly will I be needing from the Walmart of aviation (Spruce)??? The goal is to go as bright and shiny white as possible with some new stripes.

Thank you in advance!!!
 
Strip it.

Someone did a new color cover job on our 182 in the 90s and now you can see at edges and things the old color peeking out.

If you're going to repaint it and keep it, really repaint it. Do it right.

Also consider that an extra coat of paint adds weight.
 
DO NOT SAND ON THE AIRCRAFT .
 
Have it stripped and painted by a reputable paint shop. I have a friend with a 1958 182 who did this and the plane is standing tall. Going the Wal Mart route is likely to cost you in the long run.

As Tom D said, don't sand. You'll just remove the protective layer of pure aluminum and expose the alloy to (very) possible corrosion.
 
You want to be entertained (and not in a good way), look up "sanded rivets." Or, how to convert an airworthy aircraft into scrap metal in one easy step.

Strip, not sand.
 
if the base coat is pealing.....if you have it sanded and painted....what's to stop the base coat from continuing to peal?

Get it stripped, start from bare metal and paint.
 
Sand and paint ,just adds weight,and won't stand up for long,
 
If the base coat is intact you can get away with sanding and painting. I've seen it done to good effect. But if the base coat is peeling than what you're putting the new paint on will peel. No question, strip. Airplanes all have two hugely expensive systems where you can get upside down easily. One is paint, the other engine overhaul. Then again, once done you'll have an aircraft with a fresh paint job that will probably look spanky until you're done with it.
 
Which way to go is debatable, I've seen some good, long lasting paint jobs where they just sprayed over the previous paint job. The catch is that the previous paint job was still covering and protecting the metal well. It will add weight although I've rarely seen it accounted for in a weight and balance update.

If the original paint is in poor shape and is peeling or there is corrosion under it, etc. I'd suggest looking into stripping the airplane and refinishing it. In my opinion, there is little sense in spending money on paint when there are other problems (like corrosion) that may need to be properly addressed first.
 
Most aircraft paint is like most aircraft interiors, over priced and very crappy in quality.

Research up on the systems used and how to remove paint.

I've seen some folks do it themselves using some automotive folks, there are differences though.

As for stripping it all the way down vs fixing what you have, it's hard to tell without pictures.
 
I'm currently in the process of painting my Cherokee. I've done this for a living for about 25 years. The best route is to strip, and paint.
Based solely on your description, You need a strip job. Using the proper process, will ensure that your paintjob will turn out real nice.
Even if you do it all yourself.
As Tom said; Don't sand the paint off to strip it.
 
It would seem that soda blasting would be more popular with airplanes rather than the liquid stripper. But then again, I'm new at this and don't know why.
 
soda blasting can erode away aluminum (been there tested it).....a softer medium like walnut shells are approved for removing media.
 
Timbeck2 said:
It would seem that soda blasting would be more popular with airplanes rather than the liquid stripper. But then again, I'm new at this and don't know why.
Click to expand...

Soda blasting is a great idea, but the realities are that it requires a tremendous amount of very dry compressed air and may also require the soda to be stored in climate controlled conditions to keep it from forming lumps and bridges in the feed mechanism. An acquaintance has a very high end commercial soda blast system and using the thing is an ongoing struggle because of moisture issues.

Probably the other thing is that soda is dust, and the last thing painters want near their shops is more dust.
 
Timbeck2 said:
You're kidding right? Walnut shells are softer than balls of baking soda?
Click to expand...
Actually yes, but they are much larger and heavier thus they will dent the sheet. 500 grit plastic media is the preferred blasting media for removing paint from sheet aluminum. then blast with soda where you need to clean the corrosion from spots.
 
Any idea how long you are planning to keep the plane?
It sounds like $ is a consideration for you. Not everyone can afford the cadillac method; alternative methods -while not having the longevity- can be an economical way to keep flying.
 
I was told to sand the old paint just enough to adhere new paint to it.... I know to NEVER take a grinder to paint. Answer to a few of your questions- no I do not anticipate keeping it. I just wish we could get cost to the same as a car... SMH. Paint is just as expensive, if not more than an engine with absolutely NO ROI other than "oh its pretty."
 
Prcpilot said:
I was told to sand the old paint just enough to adhere new paint to it.... I know to NEVER take a grinder to paint. Answer to a few of your questions- no I do not anticipate keeping it. I just wish we could get cost to the same as a car... SMH. Paint is just as expensive, if not more than an engine with absolutely NO ROI other than "oh its pretty."
Click to expand...
It isn't hard to understand that the new paint can't adhere to the aluminum unless the old paint is off.
 
A good paint job preserves the airplane and lasts a good long time. Mine has 16 years of outside parking in Alaska. No corrosion and it still turns heads. You can save some money and get a 50/50 paint job (looks good from 50 feet at 50 mph) or you can get it done right and know that you did well by the airplane. Beauty may be skin deep but ugly goes all the way to the bone.
 
Prcpilot said:
Answer to a few of your questions- no I do not anticipate keeping it. I just wish we could get cost to the same as a car... SMH. Paint is just as expensive, if not more than an engine with absolutely NO ROI other than "oh its pretty."
Click to expand...

It is a continuing problem with aircraft. Very few aircraft are sufficiently inherently valuable to financially justify paint or engine refurbishment. If you really want to get rid of it do so. You'll take a financial hit, but not as big a one as you would with the paint. One of the aircraft I examined had the worst paint job I've ever seen on an airplane. It was offered at a substantial discount and sold promptly. Note that even with the discount, had I bought it and had it painted it would have found up costing more than it was worth.
 
Prcpilot said:
I was told to sand the old paint just enough to adhere new paint to it.... I know to NEVER take a grinder to paint. Answer to a few of your questions- no I do not anticipate keeping it. I just wish we could get cost to the same as a car... SMH. Paint is just as expensive, if not more than an engine with absolutely NO ROI other than "oh its pretty."
Click to expand...

Actually, it does cost the same as a car, when figured by the square foot of painted area. Just that the square footage on a typical piston single, (Cessna 1xx, or PA28-xxx) is about the same as 3 Chevy Tahoes.
A cheap, paintjob for a car starts at about $3k, and goes up from there. (Maaco, and Earl Scheib excepted)
 
Last edited:
I say screw the paint, interior is fine and easy enough to work on.

Radios that actually add capability are on my list.

Wiring that replaces the old crap - Done

Fixed the autopilot

Wouldn't mind starting a new cylinder collection (buy a new jug every year till I have a full set) in anticipation of overhaul.
 
Everybody keeps forgetting, paint is only there to protect the bird. Yes, a pretty paint job is nice, but covering the bare metal with something is actual utility... I bought a bird with original paint (that still looked decent) about 7 years ago, and after 400 hrs or so of hard flying the leading edges of everything are basically all flaking away. That's because I fly the bird in all kinds of weather, at all altitudes, in all kinds of environments. That original lacquer paint comes off easy if you do it correctly... Newer paints, not so easy...

Ever see a C-17 with 500hrs on it since the last paint job? Chances are if its been to the sandbox at least once, you can see bare aluminum on the leading edges. Same concept, much more extreme environment.

I spent a week last annual, removed my prop, judiciously applied epoxy prop paint and was very careful to keep it as balanced as possible. Guess how long it lasted, one cross-country flight...

The supplies to paint your average piston single with good paint is about $3k, the rest is labor. And, it's a lot of labor!

Okay, I think I'm rambling... If you want a new-looking bird and have $15k to spend, go for it ;-) If you don't, there's no shame in ugly paint! At the end of the day, pilots are still cooler than the other 99.5% of Americans!
 
The best process for paint removal I've seen is dry ice blasting. It was impressive. No chemicals and no abrasion. Was much faster and safer than anything else I've seen. But my god the equipment is pricey.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The best process for paint removal I've seen is dry ice blasting. It was impressive. No chemicals and no abrasion. Was much faster and safer than anything else I've seen. But my god the equipment is pricey.
Click to expand...
I wanted to do that on my Cherokee. Called the Dry ice blasting folks. Was told that it would take longer, and be more expensive than chemical, or soda blast.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The best process for paint removal I've seen is dry ice blasting. It was impressive. No chemicals and no abrasion. Was much faster and safer than anything else I've seen. But my god the equipment is pricey.
Click to expand...

Our maintenance group at work has a very large dry ice blast unit. Despite the fact that I frequently bring my own tools and use them at work (calculator, tape measure, digital level, and other high dollar items ;-)), they won't reciprocate and let me take the blaster home for a weekend.
 
bluerooster said:
I wanted to do that on my Cherokee. Called the Dry ice blasting folks. Was told that it would take longer, and be more expensive than chemical, or soda blast.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised by that response to your inquiry. When I had the chance to see it in action at a paint shop I thought it to be much better than chemical or soda.
 
I'm in the same boat as the OP. My 182 is a bit of an ugly duckling up close, but the last strip and paint quote I got was 16 grand. No F'ing way! Long story short, the next owner can paint it if he wants.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I'm surprised by that response to your inquiry. When I had the chance to see it in action at a paint shop I thought it to be much better than chemical or soda.
Click to expand...
It's definately a better process, but I was told that it's way slower, and quite expensive. So I elected to do the chemical strip. What a mess. But, it turned out OK. And $16k to strip and paint is reasonable, depending. I would not do another Cherokee with 4 colors for less than $18k.
Paint aint cheep. There's about $2k in paint, $800 in hardener, and reducer, $300 in stripper, $300 in conversion coat, $400 in tape, sandpaper, plastic, masking paper, another $300 in various other consumables. Then there's the labor, R&I control surfaces, check balance, etc. +25 years experience, and overhead, (rent, power etc) So at $18k I get to bust my butt for 2 months, and make enough to cover the bills, with nothing left for 100LL, or Obamacare.
 
bluerooster said:
It's definately a better process, but I was told that it's way slower, and quite expensive. So I elected to do the chemical strip. What a mess. But, it turned out OK. And $16k to strip and paint is reasonable, depending. I would not do another Cherokee with 4 colors for less than $18k.
Paint aint cheep. There's about $2k in paint, $800 in hardener, and reducer, $300 in stripper, $300 in conversion coat, $400 in tape, sandpaper, plastic, masking paper, another $300 in various other consumables. Then there's the labor, R&I control surfaces, check balance, etc. +25 years experience, and overhead, (rent, power etc) So at $18k I get to bust my butt for 2 months, and make enough to cover the bills, with nothing left for 100LL, or Obamacare.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you know your stuff. If that is the case, I better keep the wax thick, because that's quite a pile of money. thanks for the insight.
 
bluerooster said:
It's definately a better process, but I was told that it's way slower, and quite expensive. So I elected to do the chemical strip. What a mess. But, it turned out OK. And $16k to strip and paint is reasonable, depending. I would not do another Cherokee with 4 colors for less than $18k.
Paint aint cheep. There's about $2k in paint, $800 in hardener, and reducer, $300 in stripper, $300 in conversion coat, $400 in tape, sandpaper, plastic, masking paper, another $300 in various other consumables. Then there's the labor, R&I control surfaces, check balance, etc. +25 years experience, and overhead, (rent, power etc) So at $18k I get to bust my butt for 2 months, and make enough to cover the bills, with nothing left for 100LL, or Obamacare.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything you said. The equipment is very cost prohibitive.
 
An alternative to sanding is scotchbrite pads which will work for roughing the surface of the paint while not removing cladding. On the other hand sometimes the scotchbrite can leave behind other issues. As the others noted if your paint isn't solid now painting over it will just move the problem down the road a bit. Last possibility is plastic blasting which is used on large aircraft. Might not work with the thin skins found on our little planes. .016" thick control surface skins???????

Good luck
Frank
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top