Padlocks

Mtns2Skies

Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
I'm moving to a new hangar that's secured by a padlock. Obviously I want the best possible padlock to protect my plane. Any suggestions?
 
gkainz said:
I always feel like such a smart-a$$ when doing this, but it's still somewhat sarcastically satisfying ... :D

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=best+padlock+locksmith+review
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PoA has a strangely deep knowledge base on certain objects. There are experts in everything lurking here. While I certainly could do that it offers no first hand experience of securing a hangar or longevity and it's not really experts reviewing these things.

So yes, I asked the question on PoA in Hangar talk, much like anyone else would ask a question about a vehicle or any other recommendation.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
PoA has a strangely deep knowledge base on certain objects. There are experts in everything lurking here. While I certainly could do that it offers no first hand experience of securing a hangar or longevity and it's not really experts reviewing these things.

So yes, I asked the question on PoA in Hangar talk, much like anyone else would ask a question about a vehicle or any other recommendation.
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I hear you and completely agree! I get better first hand experience and educated responses from a lot of different topics here - moreso than any one other forum. I just can't resist the LMGTFY response every once in a while. I actually chased this subject a little bit a few years ago, with padlocks and then into gun safes. The youtube reviews of the run of the mill padlock and the commonly available home gun safes discouraged me to the point I threw my hands up and tried to plead ignorance of what I had purchased. I can't remember the guy's name or channel, but he hosts videos of defeating just about every lock on the market in a matter of seconds.
 
Do you have to use a padlock? If the slot is large enough, I’d use a disc lock - way more secure.
 
Something I've been working on for a while is curbing sarcastic humor. I failed this morning. Sarcasm is usually only funny to the one handing it out, and usually uncomfortable for others. I apologize.
 
gkainz said:
Something I've been working on for a while is curbing sarcastic humor. I failed this morning. Sarcasm is usually only funny to the one handing it out, and usually uncomfortable for others. I apologize.
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No worries Greg :)
 
Do you want something difficult to pick, what’s the mounting mechanism, do you want something with standard keys or a more controlled style key, do you want double/maintenance keying for mechanics key...?

There’s so many options it’s difficult to answer.

Maybe check out Deviant Ollam’s recent boredom videos while he’s isolated on a possible “higher security” option to key house and padlocks with a “decent” key system... just for a tiny flavor of “what’s out there”.

Most locksmiths are going to have favorite brands and probably say “Abus” as default, but as he shows you can do about the same thing for 30% of the price.

Start here, there’s five.


And of course it goes probably without saying that nearly anything from a big box is junk and has probably been picked and gutted in seconds by Lockpicking Lawyer. Or Bosnian Bill. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ

https://www.youtube.com/user/bosnianbill

You can go a long way down this rabbit hole.

By the way, just repinning a crap lock with security pins and an anti-bump pin can foil most criminals — but most are just going to take a big bolt cutter to the shackle anyway, so that’s why I asked about the mounting. Plenty of systems exist for shackle protection as part of the lock mount itself or the lock body design.

And then there’s that window in the side of the hangar... LOL. :)
 
Ryanb said:
Do you have to use a padlock? If the slot is large enough, I’d use a disc lock - way more secure.
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Not with one of these! LOL.


60 second pick on most disc detainer locks now. Neat tool. Kinda pushes the return to wild key ways and key designs with multiple side pins back into the limelight though... because disc detainers were pretty nice for simple security... but no more.

Easy to tension, click six times, open.
 
The padlock is just one part of the security for your hanger. You certainly want a lock on the door but look at the whole thing and make sure the lock does not vastly exceed the rest of the security. Door hinges and lock hasps jump to the forefront here. Can someone get in over the wall from the next hanger? What about the door locks on your plane? You do know that Cessna is famous for having like 5 keys for the entire fleet. My partnership replaced our door lock with a replacement that is actually a unique ( or mostly so ). I was at a flyin at Udvar Hazy one year and got to talking with a CAP person and mentioned this as part of a conversation about plane security. He did not believe me so I walked over and used my key to turn the ignition on. He was shocked to say the least. We did not replace the ignition on our plane but do use a throttle lock with a large padlock.
 
denverpilot said:
Do you want something difficult to pick, what’s the mounting mechanism, do you want something with standard keys or a more controlled style key, do you want double/maintenance keying for mechanics key...?
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Here, see attached picture. All it's doing is locking the door lock into the ground... Not the most secure way to hold a door shut... but I at least want to control what I can and make, at least part of it, secure.
IMG_20200410_140545.jpg
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Here, see attached picture. All it's doing is locking the door lock into the ground... Not the most secure way to hold a door shut... but I at least want to control what I can and make, at least part of it, secure.
View attachment 84802
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Honestly... that looks defeatable with a pry bar. Just stick the bar behind the pin and rip the top hasp off, using the part of the bar in the ground as the pivot point. :) Would be loud though.
 
Best security is a basic lock to keep the honest men out. Otherwise rely on good lighting, HD cameras (trail cams or the high def security cams that have memory card slots), and a good insurance policy.
I lost the keys to my firearm and also my valuables safe. The Stack-On Sentinel gun cabinet took about five minutes to get most of the lock cylinder wafer pins set and then a good twist with a flathead screwdriver turned the lock the rest of the way (shearing the last wafer I could get to move). I put a box-end wrench tight near the end of the flat end blade and pressed the screwdriver into the lock and whacked the wrench with a hammer to turn it with force.
This was my Sentry safe with a $13 tube lock pick. Zero experience using this tool besides watching a five minute YT video. Took me 20 seconds to release the tube lock. Of course I have the combination...
01b75700e7e0ba3b9d39e0e4bf740655.jpg


The YT video example he uses the same tube lock pick set to unlock a high security bolt lock used on vans and mini storage lockers (the round ones).
 
denverpilot said:
Honestly... that looks defeatable with a pry bar. Just stick the bar behind the pin and rip the top hasp off, using the part of the bar in the ground as the pivot point. :) Would be loud though.
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Yeah... but I can only control so much :)
 
Most all locking mechanisms are subject to removal if the motivation is there to do so. That’s kind of a moot point.

The disc lock is more secure than a padlock, as it takes considerably more effort to cut. For this reason, we decided to only allow disc locks for all tenants at the storage facility. Padlocks can be snipped off in 2 seconds with a pair of bolt cutters, disc locks cannot. They both can be lock-picked just as easily however.

The most secure lock, is a combination disc lock.
 
If you dig through some of the YouTube videos by people like BosniaBill (locklab.com) and LockPickingLawyer you'll find that most padlocks are pretty horrendous. They do review a few of the better ones. You also have to look at what the lock is locked through. If it's easier to bypass the lock by disassembly or destruction of the door, they'll take the path of least resistance. It's amazing how horrendous a lot of locks are. I'm not an experienced lock picker, but it doesn't take more than $10 of tools and no skill whatsoever to open most Master-brand locks. I'm particularly unimpressed by the lock I bought to protect a couple of trailers here (we have had a run of trailer thefts in our area). I can rake it open faster than I can figure out which key goes with which of my locks. Even the Schlage house locks I have (and some of the cores do have anti-pickign spools in some of the pins) aren't the greatest. They will, however, slow someone down, and I back up the locks with a good alarm system.
 
Ryanb said:
Most all locking mechanisms are subject to removal if the motivation is there to do so. That’s kind of a moot point.

The disc lock is more secure than a padlock, as it takes considerably more effort to cut. For this reason, we decided to only allow disc locks for all tenants at the storage facility. Padlocks can be snipped off in 2 seconds with a pair of bolt cutters. They both can be lock-picked just as easily however.
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Ah I see a disconnect. I thought you were talking about the key mechanism (disc detainer) and not the padlock body shape.

My comment about protecting the shackle (multiple ways, the “puck” shape is one) were about that. I still call the puck a “padlock”.
 
Ryanb said:
Most all locking mechanisms are subject to removal if the motivation is there to do so. That’s kind of a moot point.

The disc lock is more secure than a padlock, as it takes considerably more effort to cut. For this reason, we decided to only allow disc locks for all tenants at the storage facility. Padlocks can be snipped off in 2 seconds with a pair of bolt cutters, disc locks cannot. They both can be lock-picked just as easily however.

The most secure lock, is a combination disc lock.
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Note that many of the disk locks are a joke. Though one of the ones I have seems much better than the others (it was featured in one of the LPL videos).
 
flyingron said:
Note that many of the disk locks are a joke. Though one of the ones I have seems much better than the others (it was featured in one of the LPL videos).
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How so?
 
gkainz said:
Something I've been working on for a while is curbing sarcastic humor. I failed this morning. Sarcasm is usually only funny to the one handing it out, and usually uncomfortable for others. I apologize.
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Sarcasm is a dying art. Please carry on.
 
flyingron said:
I'm not an experienced lock picker, but it doesn't take more than $10 of tools and no skill whatsoever to open most Master-brand locks.
Click to expand...

Honestly for *most* Master brand “locks”, all it takes is a piece of a pop can.

They’re still producing tens of thousands of shimmable padlocks and decodable combo locks for the big box stores, every year.

It’s embarrassing to call Master a lock company, really.
 
Locks keep honest people out. I'd go with a normal padlock to not draw attention to yourself. Put the best padlock on the door and some one will get curious as to why.

I will say that Master combination locks are horrible. In about 10 minutes I learned how to find the combination for one and opened two locks that we had lost the combos for. If I can do that, just about anyone can.
 
bflynn said:
Locks keep honest people out. I'd go with a normal padlock to not draw attention to yourself. Put the best padlock on the door and some one will get curious as to why.

I will say that Master combination locks are horrible. In about 10 minutes I learned how to find the combination for one and opened two locks that we had lost the combos for. If I can do that, just about anyone can.
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Well, then what's the best normal padlock I can get?
 
gkainz said:
I hear you and completely agree! I get better first hand experience and educated responses from a lot of different topics here - moreso than any one other forum. I just can't resist the LMGTFY response every once in a while. I actually chased this subject a little bit a few years ago, with padlocks and then into gun safes. The youtube reviews of the run of the mill padlock and the commonly available home gun safes discouraged me to the point I threw my hands up and tried to plead ignorance of what I had purchased. I can't remember the guy's name or channel, but he hosts videos of defeating just about every lock on the market in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...

Search for LockPickingLawyer on YouTube.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well, then what's the best normal padlock I can get?
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I'd just find one of the storage unit style padlocks that leaves as little of the bolt accessible to a pair of bolt cutters. The actual lock mechanism is probably easily defeated by anyone with lock-picking tools/knowledge so I doubt it's going to make much difference which locking mechanism you choose. I would imagine that most of the criminals who are trying to break into hangars probably aren't lock-picking experts, they just look for the easiest locks to snip with bolt cutters.
 
Ryanb said:
How so?
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Most are 3 or 4 pin cores without security pins. 5 or 6 pin cores are rare, and extra sliders or side cuts basically never exist. They are usually some of the easiest locks to pick or rake open.

Almost always a “closed shackle” AKA traditional body padlock with the body extending up to provide shielding for the shackle, will be more secure in all respects. I quickly left the last storage center that decided to require disk locks.
 
Ryanb said:
Most all locking mechanisms are subject to removal if the motivation is there to do so. That’s kind of a moot point.

The disc lock is more secure than a padlock, as it takes considerably more effort to cut. For this reason, we decided to only allow disc locks for all tenants at the storage facility. Padlocks can be snipped off in 2 seconds with a pair of bolt cutters, disc locks cannot. They both can be lock-picked just as easily however.

The most secure lock, is a combination disc lock.
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I prefer a 110v line attached to the door knob and lock. Open the lock properly (key or combo), that disconnects the voltage to the door knob. Force the lock? Feel free to grab the door knob at your own risk. My cousin's an ambulance chaser and will defend me for free (or else both our mothers will rise up from the grave)
 
The hasp is the weak point. Just do the padlock that is easiest for you to use. I don't like to d around with combination locks, so I use a key lock.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I'd just find one of the storage unit style padlocks that leaves as little of the bolt accessible to a pair of bolt cutters. The actual lock mechanism is probably easily defeated by anyone with lock-picking tools/knowledge so I doubt it's going to make much difference which locking mechanism you choose. I would imagine that most of the criminals who are trying to break into hangars probably aren't lock-picking experts, they just look for the easiest locks to snip with bolt cutters.
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The round hasp ones are better from a jimmy standpoint, but if you ever watch the storage locker auction shows, you'll see that they cut those locks all the time. Their protection against bolt cutters comes in the form of a thief being dumb and having cheap bolt cutters.

Fake security cameras + antenna on top of the hangar are probably a better deterrent.
 
We have to allow airport mgmt access to our hangars here, so we have 2 locks per door, interlocked together, so either our lock or theirs will open the door. This further exposes hasps that are easily cut with a bolt cutters. The hasps seem to be heavier duty than typical, so I think prying them off would be considerably harder. This requirement would make the disk locks impossible to use.
 
denverpilot said:
Honestly for *most* Master brand “locks”, all it takes is a piece of a pop can.

They’re still producing tens of thousands of shimmable padlocks and decodable combo locks for the big box stores, every year.

It’s embarrassing to call Master a lock company, really.
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I learned to open Master school locker combination locks fifty years ago, no tools.
 
bflynn said:
The round hasp ones are better from a jimmy standpoint, but if you ever watch the storage locker auction shows, you'll see that they cut those locks all the time. Their protection against bolt cutters comes in the form of a thief being dumb and having cheap bolt cutters.

Fake security cameras + antenna on top of the hangar are probably a better deterrent.
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Right, but unless a thief is specifically targeting YOUR hangar because he saw something in it he wanted, he's going to just go for the easy pickings which are standard padlocks with shanks that are easily accessible. If a thief wants something bad enough, it doesn't much matter what lock you put on the door.
 
I prefer Schlage padlocks because I can key them to my house key. I've been in the security hardware business for 40 years and a Schlage distributor for most of that. No padlock is thief-proof. A Dremel with a cutoff wheel will cut the shackles on any of them. That's how professionals remove them.

No security system is foolproof. A professional thief can get into pretty much anyplace. But most of us don't have anything a sophisticated thief wants. We're just trying to keep the meth heads out.
 
gkainz said:
Something I've been working on for a while is curbing sarcastic humor. I failed this morning. Sarcasm is usually only funny to the one handing it out, and usually uncomfortable for others. I apologize.
Click to expand...
I disagree. It's usually funny to everyone except the target. ;)
 
gkainz said:
Something I've been working on for a while is curbing sarcastic humor. I failed this morning. Sarcasm is usually only funny to the one handing it out, and usually uncomfortable for others. I apologize.
Click to expand...
Not even my wife appreciates my sarcasm. I’m trying to cut it out too, but I really do enjoy being a sarcastic sob.
 
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