PA28 Fatal, Panama City, 6/6

Hengelo said:
What are the consequences for the A&P in a situation like this?
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He owns the approval for return to service no different than if he did all the work himself.

Ed Haywood said:
Hundred bucks says the A&P never looked at it before signing off.
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10 to 1 he looked at it but not as closely as he should have since he probably had a high level of trust in the people working the install to include the pilot.

Racerx said:
Did they really say 5 different people had signatures in the logbook regarding the install?
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Yes. Technically per 43.9(a)(3) each person who performs maintenance on the aircraft must list their name in the entry. So this is actually an example of a proper logbook entry as shown below.

1760609502889.png
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Docume...e=Excerpt from Mx Logs FA261_Redacted-Rel.pdf
 
I guess the last look at the guages at the hold short line was NOT on this pilots' "checklist". He may not have been using one. Also the last look back at the taxiway....

Lesson for all....
 
bbchien said:
I guess the last look at the guages at the hold short line was NOT on this pilots' "checklist". He may not have been using one. Also the last look back at the taxiway....

Lesson for all....
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Not sure he even had a first look. I didn't see anything on the RPM graph that looked like a run-up.
 
Preflights, run ups, takeoff briefings, “never” on intersection departures, don’t take off into stuff you cannot land in…

Just seems unthinkable people skip these ever, let alone with passengers.
 
Hengelo said:
Preflights, run ups, takeoff briefings, “never” on intersection departures, don’t take off into stuff you cannot land in…

Just seems unthinkable people skip these ever, let alone with passengers.
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I suspect first time passengers can become a distraction from normal routine for some.

I also suspect he had not adapted his procedures to his fancy new display. In particular, he had not yet developed a scan pattern to monitor key indicators.

When I take passengers, I make a big show of preflight and runup. Gives them confidence, but also keeps me from short cutting it.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I suspect first time passengers can become a distraction from normal routine for some.

I also suspect he had not adapted his procedures to his fancy new display. In particular, he had not yet developed a scan pattern to monitor key indicators.

When I take passengers, I make a big show of preflight and runup. Gives them confidence, but also keeps me from short cutting it.
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Same. It’s basically an introductory lesson. “Here is what we’re doing and why.” I even include a pre-preflight briefing where I stress there is a real chance we don’t fly today due to things on the PAVE list.
 
donjohnston said:
What do you mean by "don't take off into stuff you cannot land in"?
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I mean I won't take off into IFR conditions I'm not comfortable landing in. If I have to turn around for some reason I want the landing conditions to be within my own minimums.
 
Years ago a young coworker, that had never flown in a small plane, came with me for a short flight. He seemed to enjoy it a lot but gave me a strange answer when I asked later if anything concerned or frightened him. He told me that when I was doing the preflight it bothered him because I was looking at the plane like I expected to find a problem.

I told him that was exactly what I was doing and because I didn't find a reason not to fly ... we did!
 
Bell206 said:
He owns the approval for return to service no different than if he did all the work himself.


10 to 1 he looked at it but not as closely as he should have since he probably had a high level of trust in the people working the install to include the pilot.


Yes. Technically per 43.9(a)(3) each person who performs maintenance on the aircraft must list their name in the entry. So this is actually an example of a proper logbook entry as shown below.

View attachment 146216
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=14496180&FileExtension=pdf&FileName=Excerpt from Mx Logs FA261_Redacted-Rel.pdf
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I was aware of the proper way to log it. But 5 separate people for an avionics install seems a bit like too many chefs in the kitchen
 
Ed Haywood said:
I suspect first time passengers can become a distraction from normal routine for some.

I also suspect he had not adapted his procedures to his fancy new display. In particular, he had not yet developed a scan pattern to monitor key indicators.

When I take passengers, I make a big show of preflight and runup. Gives them confidence, but also keeps me from short cutting it.
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My CFI got me in the habit of being verbose during preflight as well as flight phases. On the off chance execution wasn't quite right, at least the examiner could hear what I was trying to do.

I've carried that forward to flying with passengers. Have had more than one tell me that hearing me talk out loud made them more comfortable.

When me and Dad picked up his plane after it got upgraded, he was doing his run up and looking for vacuum. I smiled while he grew increasing frustrated not being able to find it on the fancy new screens. Buddy, the vacuum pump is in the back seat.
 
Racerx said:
I was aware of the proper way to log it. But 5 separate people for an avionics install seems a bit like too many chefs in the kitchen
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If you check the list in the docket link above it was a bit more than an avionics install.
 
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