Overtly lying on medical for class 3

Filling meds for years and not taking them? Law enforcement may be interested in who you’re providing those drugs to.
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, but that doesn’t undo the diagnosis. The doc made a diagnosis as a basis for the prescription. The FAA will assume a diagnosis is correct until proven otherwise. That proof is often time-consuming and co$tly.
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Yep. I’m consulting with some official folks now per some recs. Probably will call in some favors as ducks lined up. Gonna kill the scripts now and just go in and disqualify these diagnosis one by one. Will take a few years and testing and sobriety tests I’m sure but that’s fine I’m patient no rush. I have accepted it now.
 
TCABM said:
The AME decision considerations for ADD/ADHD can be found here:
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd

And the SSRI info can be found at:
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants

As mentioned elsewhere, don’t turn a medical certification issue into a legal problem. Also, consult with an experienced HIMS AME on the path forward. Do not submit an application without knowing what is needed for success; this is not a DIY effort.
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Yes sir thank you I’m working on the consult now. I see others have done this. I will conquer this too
 
Lindberg said:
To sell.

The answer to the OP's original question is that the chances of getting caught are currently very low. But maybe someday the FAA starts combing through your records, and then you do get caught. The consequences will be severe. Many, many pilots lie on Medxpress, often about things that wouldn't make a difference. But here we have someone intentionally lying about multiple disqualifying conditions and possibly dealing drugs. It wouldn't just be the medical revoked.
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Agreed and this is just not worth it. That would be the worst, 10 years later there is an issue and then boom busted. No need to expose myself to this just to fly that would be silly.
Thanks for the insight
 
Lawson_Stone said:
Having the untaken medication is a good way to document that it was, well, untaken. If you have prescriptions on record, but you don't have the meds, either (1) you took them (2) you trashed them or (3) you passed them along to someone else. How is the AME to know? I think if you continue to fill prescriptions for a med you are not taking you should carefully keep the untaken meds to prove your point. But really, if you aren't taking them, stop the scripts. That's the best way to show you aren't taking meds.
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Yeah agreed doing this. No way to prove it that I wasn’t taking especially an x-drunk lol! No one will believe me on that. It’s a moot point and just gonna go in with “stopping” now and disqualify those conditions I’m realizing this is a long road however it will be a sweet sweet victory when I get it
 
MRC01 said:
You don't get to decide when the rules apply to you, or ignore them when they are inconvenient or seem unfair.
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Actually, if you're most people, that's exactly what you do.
When we're driving we see the unambiguous sign on the highway that says 55mph speed limit, we know it's there for our safety and for the safety of others, but we just can't resist going 75mph because we feel "the speed limit should be higher".
Virtually everyone in the USA does this because the rule is inconvenient and we take a calculated risk in breaking the law.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Virtually everyone in the USA does this because the rule is inconvenient and we take a calculated risk in breaking the law.
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Honestly, I don't. Well, I'm in Canada and you said "everyone in the USA", but I don't do it here or in the US. In fact, I get pretty ****ed when I see people going 20 mph (or up here kph) over the speed limit. Do I speed occasionally? Sure do, but it's because I missed a speed limit sign and the car's GPS doesn't display the speed limit on that particular road. As soon as I notice, I slow down. Got caught three times so far. Paid the fine twice (wasn't much over) and once the cop (in Texas actually) just gave me a warning.

Edit: But don't get me wrong, this is not a "holier than thou" post. It's just that particular thing, speeding (especially in bad conditions) that gets my blood boiling for some reason. There are plenty of very stupid and unnecessary gov't imposed rules I disagree with and wouldn't judge anyone for not complying with them lol.
 
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ArrowFlyer86 said:
Actually, if you're most people, that's exactly what you do.
When we're driving we see the unambiguous sign on the highway that says 55mph speed limit, we know it's there for our safety and for the safety of others, but we just can't resist going 75mph because we feel "the speed limit should be higher".
Virtually everyone in the USA does this because the rule is inconvenient and we take a calculated risk in breaking the law.
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The risk calculation is completely different. If you're busted for speeding you pay a fine and keep driving.

If you're busted for falsifying your medical application regarding mental health and medication prescribed for it, you lose your pilot certificate along with your medical certificate, with little likelihood of EVER getting them back, and you risk going to jail as well.
 
P.S. I understand why the OP edited his opening statements, but it sure does defeat the purpose of other people understanding (and getting the benefits) of this whole discussion.
 
dbahn said:
The risk calculation is completely different. If you're busted for speeding you pay a fine and keep driving.

If you're busted for falsifying your medical application regarding mental health and medication prescribed for it, you lose your pilot certificate along with your medical certificate, with little likelihood of EVER getting them back, and you risk going to jail as well.
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I don't know how accurate this last statement is. I know people who have lost their pilot's certificates for covering medical conditions, and later got them back. It's work, but I think that's the rule more than the exception.
 
Do you know there is only one scientific study that has linked speed to mishap RATE. And it found that it is a difference in speed that increases the mishap rate. So if you are doing the speed limit, and everyone else is doing 20 over, YOU are the problem, not them.

The US Interstates were designed for 1960 era cars with 1960 tires to run 70s MPH. So with all the increase in technology, we now need to run at 55????

The 55 MPH speed limit came about not for safety, but to save gas.
 
Lindberg said:
I don't know how accurate this last statement is. I know people who have lost their pilot's certificates for covering medical conditions, and later got them back. It's work, but I think that's the rule more than the exception.
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Some medical conditions are easier to get over than others with respect to re-certification. Mental health diagnosis, long term medication, probably mis-use of the medication, etc. etc., all add up to a big hurdle for any reinstatement, and the process can certainly be prohibitively expensive.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Honestly, I don't. Well, I'm in Canada and you said "everyone in the USA", but I don't do it here or in the US. In fact, I get pretty ****ed when I see people going 20 mph (or up here kph) over the speed limit. Do I speed occasionally? Sure do, but it's because I missed a speed limit sign and the car's GPS doesn't display the speed limit on that particular road. As soon as I notice, I slow down. Got caught three times so far. Paid the fine twice (wasn't much over) and once the cop (in Texas actually) just gave me a warning.

Edit: But don't get me wrong, this is not a "holier than thou" post. It's just that particular thing, speeding (especially in bad conditions) that gets my blood boiling for some reason. There are plenty of very stupid and unnecessary gov't imposed rules I disagree with and wouldn't judge anyone for not complying with them lol.
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So YOU were the guy camped out in the left lane with the Ontario plate holding up traffic yesterday.
 
@dbahn
I agree the risk calculation is different, but at the end of the day it's still:
(1) knowing there is an unambiguous rule
(2) knowing the rule applies to you
(3) actively choosing to break the rule

Which is what MRC was originally saying -- that we don't get to choose which laws to follow or ignore them when inconvenient or unfair. I'm just arguing that we do in fact make this calculation all the time. Speeding, making illegal U-turns, littering, drinking while boating, ...

I'm not equating speeding and lying on a federal form, they're different to be sure. But in either (both) cases the same ingredients are still there: knowing there is a rule and allowing ourselves to break it simply because we don't like it.

The real question is what we're willing to risk punishment for.
 
dbahn said:
Some medical conditions are easier to get over than others with respect to re-certification. Mental health diagnosis, long term medication, probably mis-use of the medication, etc. etc., all add up to a big hurdle for any reinstatement, and the process can certainly be prohibitively expensive.
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Those conditions have big hurdles if you tell the truth about your condition as well. My point is that lying about it and getting caught doesn't mean you won't later be able to go through the process. I don't condone lying on the application, but we should be honest about the likely consequences.
 
Pinecone said:
Do you know there is only one scientific study that has linked speed to mishap RATE. And it found that it is a difference in speed that increases the mishap rate. So if you are doing the speed limit, and everyone else is doing 20 over, YOU are the problem, not them.

The US Interstates were designed for 1960 era cars with 1960 tires to run 70s MPH. So with all the increase in technology, we now need to run at 55????

The 55 MPH speed limit came about not for safety, but to save gas.
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There hasn't been a 55 mph national speed limit for decades (since 1987), and no national limits at all since 1995, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Most interstates around here are 70, 75, even 80 once you're out of the city.
 
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Ours are mostly 60 - 65- and a few 70. Eastern US.

But pre-74, they were all 70. With MUCH inferior cars.
 
Jaygatsby007 said:
Thank you very much I’m going to do this. I assume it’s all off the record which is perfect. This is great plan and gets me moving. Slowly but surely
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Another advantage to a consultation is if the AME says there’s no way you’ll ever pass, you haven’t failed a medical so you’re still good for Sport Pilot. Once you fail a medical you’re done as far as Sport Pilot goes until you pass a medical.
 
Pinecone said:
Do you know there is only one scientific study that has linked speed to mishap RATE. And it found that it is a difference in speed that increases the mishap rate. So if you are doing the speed limit, and everyone else is doing 20 over, YOU are the problem, not them.

The US Interstates were designed for 1960 era cars with 1960 tires to run 70s MPH. So with all the increase in technology, we now need to run at 55????

The 55 MPH speed limit came about not for safety, but to save gas.
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Maybe so but years ago the Kansas turnpike had an 80 MPH speed limit. Every Monday the radio would talk about all the people who were killed on the turnpike the previous weekend. The death toll went way down when the 55 MPH speed limit went into effect. I think the limit is now 70 MPH.
 
Crashnburn said:
Maybe so but years ago the Kansas turnpike had an 80 MPH speed limit. Every Monday the radio would talk about all the people who were killed on the turnpike the previous weekend. The death toll went way down when the 55 MPH speed limit went into effect. I think the limit is now 70 MPH.
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You two are talking different things, accident rate and death rate. It is possible that dropping the speeds from 80 to 55 had only a slight effect of the accident rate but a significantly greater effect on the death rate. Lower speed accidents are less likely to be fatal.
 
robin ardoin said:
Years ago motor vehicles did not nearly offer the protection of current vehicles. Severe injury and deaths per mile driven are much improved compared to the past.
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Then could we please get rid of the freakin' speed limits and implement autobahn-style driving? :D
 
Crashnburn said:
Maybe so but years ago the Kansas turnpike had an 80 MPH speed limit. Every Monday the radio would talk about all the people who were killed on the turnpike the previous weekend. The death toll went way down when the 55 MPH speed limit went into effect. I think the limit is now 70 MPH.
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The death toll went down because people were driving less.

They used to always report the death toll after a 3 day weekend until someone realized it was 1.5 times the death toll of a two day weekend, for 1.5 times the number of days.
 
Half Fast said:
You two are talking different things, accident rate and death rate. It is possible that dropping the speeds from 80 to 55 had only a slight effect of the accident rate but a significantly greater effect on the death rate. Lower speed accidents are less likely to be fatal.
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Yes. Higher speed means bigger crash.
 
SkyChaser said:
I really hope this is a troll, because it reeks of attitudes that will be very dangerous going forward.

If it's not a troll, and you really are as good, ethical and moral as you claim to be, your conscience will eat you alive every time you get in that pilot's seat and start her up. You will always be looking over your shoulder and be pushed into making possibly stupid decisions in order to avoid detection. It's your life and your decision, but I would not take lying on a federal form lightly. I also hope that you confide to your wife that you are planning on committing a crime that could ultimately lead to financial straits, a criminal conviction, and you being jailed for some time if anything happens. This isn't just about you if you have a family.

Personally, I would recommend taking all those pills back to the doctor or pharmacy (I hope you weren't flushing them or selling them), and getting a signed and dated statement of how many you brought back. I would get letters proving sobriety/you "crushing it in life". And then I would suck it up and get a good AME and get it done. The right way.

Or I would go fly sport pilot and understand that my own stupid choices are what kept me from being able to follow through on my dream of flying the country with the family in the back. Actions have consequences, some more far-reaching than others. Lying doesn't make them go away. It may postpone the reckoning, but it doesn't erase them.

ETA: I just saw that you were not holding on to them. That will be a problem. There will be no way to prove that you were not actually taking them.
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We all make stupid choices but that doesn't make these rules fair or reasonable. I think you're hatefulness probably stretches to your whole life and I'm sorry for the people in it because of it.
 
MichelleSut said:
I think you're hatefulness probably stretches to your whole life and I'm sorry for the people in it because of it.
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On the contrary, the people in her life are quite delighted to have her around, as she’s one of the kindest, most caring, and most loving people on the planet, as well as being intelligent and insightful.

And just who are you? (Charming first post, BTW.)
 
MichelleSut said:
We all make stupid choices but that doesn't make these rules fair or reasonable. I think you're hatefulness probably stretches to your whole life and I'm sorry for the people in it because of it.
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Reality has a way of seeming hateful to those who don't like the consequences of their decisions.

And thank you to @Half Fast (my FIL) and @2-Bit Speed (my husband) for the unasked-for defense. :) You guys made me smile on an evening I was feeling kinda sick and rotten. I don't know how I got to be so lucky!
 
MichelleSut said:
We all make stupid choices but that doesn't make these rules fair or reasonable.
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These rules are written in blood. As archaic as they may seem to you, innocent people are dead because pilots had these drugs in their system...or just needed them to begin with and weren't taking them.

Being prescribed Xanax or Adderall isn't a stupid choice...if you need them. Does it suck? Absolutely. But again....written in blood.

There was zero hatefulness in that post. I actually suspect @SkyChaser is incapable of that feeling.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
The assumption by any authority will be that if he didn't use them, he sold them. If some compulsive behavior was so strong he filled them and flushed them, over and over, that'll be another issue.
Sport. Pilot.
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absurd. popping xanax/adderal speedballs and he wants to fly. with his family . . .
 
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