Overnight rental

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BrownieFlys

Filing Flight Plan
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BrownieFlys
So, I am slowly, but surely quite my PPL. I am currently about 15 hours in. I’m starting to think about my goals after I acquire my certificate. I made another post stating that I have a pretty good monthly allowance for this, but I am in no position to purchase an aircraft at this time.

I live in a pretty small town with no clubs. The flight school that I currently rent from rents the same 172 out locally for $185 per hour.
I asked them about overnight rental and they said there was a 4/hr minimum per day.

I did not ask them this question which I probably should have. But in y’all’s experience, how does this work?

For instance, the Gulf is approximately 2 hour flight from me.
If I take the plane Friday afternoon and fly to the beach and fly back Sunday afternoon, that would be Friday, Saturday, Sunday for a total of 16 hours. Is this correct?
If so, this is this is very costly. So I would be charged 16 hours for only 4 hours of actual flying time.
To note, this is not a very busy flight school as it’s not in a heavily populated area.
This seriously limits the actual “going places “that the certificate allows.
Is this how most schools/rentals operate?
 
A lot of them do and it’s typically per rolling 24hr period. Basically, when the airplane is just sitting on the ground at your destination, they’re trying to cover the lost expenses that it could otherwise be flying if it were back home on the flight line.
 
BrownieFlys said:
To note, this is not a very busy flight school as it’s not in a heavily populated area.
This seriously limits the actual “going places “that the certificate allows.
Is this how most schools/rentals operate?
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The certificate allows you to go places. But it doesn't allow you to go places in my airplane ;)

A daily minimum is very common and probably more so at small flight schools than big ones when some airplanes may be used primarily for training and others for travelling. And yes, it severely limits your travel opportunities unless you're willing to pay for it.

The minimum hours is ultimately a compromise between use and nonuse. Although I haven't been faced with a daily minimum in about 20 years (even though I have done overnight multi-day rentals), 4 hours seems a bit high unless they have only one or two airplanes that are kept relatively busy. Sometimes, they can be negotiated. If it's truly a quiet period at the school, many will be happy with a lower daily minimum as opposed to no flights at all.
 
I counted 12 hours there, but yes. These things are negotiable and your odds improve a lot if you identify unpopular times (mon/tue/wed instead of fri/sat/sun?) or are willing to take the plane outside of its 100hr inspection window or something like that.

Honestly just asking and proposing a date will probably get you a little bit of grace here. There's no magic FAA or business reason that entitles the FBO to the "sure thing" the 4 hours represents. Especially if they're sleepy and trading "maybe 2 hours" for it -- there's negotiation room there.

Does the school have an uggo/unpopular plane? :) Will you be making this trip a lot? Heck you might just offer them a large block (10-20 hours) in exchange for waiving the minimum. It's a highly lucrative policy and there is a lot of fat on the steak for the FBO to be agreeable. You could also just pursue a 2, 2.5, 3 hour minimum instead. Lots of ways to make this a win-win. Try em :)
 
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BrownieFlys said:
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I did not ask them this question which I probably should have. But in y’all’s experience, how does this work?
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Usually pretty close to how you describe. Club, partnership, or sole ownership is what you are looking for.
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I was hoping it wasn’t that way.
I’ll just keep pressing on and hopefully doors will open as I get further into my training.
 
Doors open more often if you hang out near them and get to know the people who have keys. And sometimes you have to open them yourself, but can get help. If you hang out at the airport enough, you’ll eventually find the options that suit you best. That could be meeting another pilot you get along with and deciding to buy a plane together to share expenses. Or being a safety pilot for the instrument pilots who are always trying to maintain currency. Or just being seen as reliable enough to rent the school’s plane for a long weekend with no minimums because they like you.
 
It would be 12 hours in your example. Maybe you are counting 3 days @ 4 hours/day plus the block time. It wouldn’t be both. The greater of block time or the minimum per day is normal.
 
iamtheari said:
Doors open more often if you hang out near them and get to know the people who have keys. And sometimes you have to open them yourself, but can get help. If you hang out at the airport enough, you’ll eventually find the options that suit you best. That could be meeting another pilot you get along with and deciding to buy a plane together to share expenses. Or being a safety pilot for the instrument pilots who are always trying to maintain currency. Or just being seen as reliable enough to rent the school’s plane for a long weekend with no minimums because they like you.
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This is far more true than people think. More can be added to this list of ways to become part of the local aviation community. And it can open many doors.
 
When I pulled my 182-RG off leaseback, I let my old CFI use it. All he had to do was let me know ahead of time and put gas in it.

A flying plane is a happy plane.
 
donjohnston said:
When I pulled my 182-RG off leaseback, I let my old CFI use it. All he had to do was let me know ahead of time and put gas in it.

A flying plane is a happy plane.
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That sort of happened to me too. It was a Turbo 182RG on leaseback. Owner calls me one day to say he was removing it from leaseback because "it's costing me more and all I'm getting back is a tied airplane." But he's be happy to rent it to me privately. Flew it on some great trips for about a year.
 
First concentrate on getting the certificate.
I rented from the flight school at first. I was not ready to do long X country over night trips when I first got my certificate. I was fine flying for a couple hours at a time getting experience with flight school planes.
I saw an old friend at the plumbing supply. He asked what I was up to. I knew he was a pilot with multiple aircraft. I explained I was working on my PPL. He offered one of his 172s to fly since he had recently lost his medical at 82 years old. Almost a year went by and I saw him again and had earned my certificate by then.
He asked me again to come fly his planes. I went to his drag strip to checkout the 172. I taxied it the the first visit. Second time there I flew it out of there. I had raced at his drag strip for 20 years prior so we knew each other pretty good.
He had rented a hangar at the local airport so he could get someone to fly his planes without getting into his drag strip as it was a little tricky.
So I took off from his drag strip with a unknown plane under me that sat mostly for 10 years prior. I flew the pattern for an hour to make sure it was going to keep flying. Then I flew to the airport and landed with great relief and increased confidence. I went inside to the FBO to find which hangar he rented 6 months earlier that sat empty all that time.
All of a sudden I had a plane to fly any time I wanted with a pre paid hangar. He didn't want me to pay to rent the plane, he just wanted it flown. I did voluntarily pay him 50 buck an hour with me providing gas, oil and labor to work on it.
I flew it almost everyday. It was very rewarding getting more comfortable in it. I helped do the annual inspection that summer that was really a pre buy for me. After that I bought it from him in 2018 and took over the hangar rent.
I still have it 1600 hours later and still fly 3-5 days a week.
So you never know what might turn up after you get your certificate. Good luck to ya.
Here it was in front of his hangar. I didn't even know how to open a hangar door or anything about being at a small airport.
380b9dbe-a69c-46c3-8868-86b9721eef83.jpg

My wife and I were like wow! Pinch me!
2e856863-f1b0-4160-990c-f376a9a62435.jpg

You should see my hangar now, 8 years later. It's loaded with junk. lol
 
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Hang out at the airport a lot, talk with other people. You'd be surprised what will turn up... And if nothing does, you may find that there are other like minded people who might be interested in a club or partnership. If there isn't already one there, you can start one. AOPA has lots of resources to help with that.
 
I also don't know where you're getting 16 hours from. In fact, Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, depending on how their policy is written, may only be considered 48 hours or two days. That means a minimum charge of 8 hours instead of the 16 that you calculated. As others have stated, if the weekend was otherwise going to be a slow one they may even waive that.
 
Hang out at the airport, and meet pilots

Get their names, and N number, go to the FAA website, and learn what rating they have, plus other information

Go on Flight aware and seed what kind of flying they do.

If they only fly weekdays, you may be able to rent from them weekends, but do not push, such deals take time to mature.

Trying to get acquainted with a pilot leaving is generally a bad idea, unless he is just keeping current.

Again, hang out and meet pilots, remember, at first, you are making friends, not renting their plane.

Be open to the possibility of becoming a less than full partner, sharing a percentage of costs, but no ownership.

It takes time, be very patient.
 
If you are known at the FBO they will be more likely to negotiate minimum hours. They may even waive them.

But not if it is a busy flight school over a nice weekend. The planes need to make money.
 
Thanks everybody for the comments. Y’all have given some great advice. And sorry for the confusion over the hours. Like I said, I am very new to this. I did not know how it worked taking a rental over a long weekend.

I was counting overnight Friday as 4 hours. Saturday as 4 hours and Sunday as 4 hours and then the 4 hours of total flight time. Which in this instance I’m glad I was wrong with my calculation.
I’m just gonna continue focusing on acquiring my certificate and networking as I go.

Surely, doors will open.
 
How they count days and hours is up to the FBO. There is no standard.

So Friday to Monday could be 2 days, 3 days or 4 days.
 
Very common practice. The min per day seems to be 3 or 4 hours per 24. So yes it gets expensive quickly from a rental perspective. But they are covering their lost revenue from others renting with that minimum. It’s worse if they charge gas as part of the hourly rate.
 
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