Our day with NTSB

Tom, dude my heart honestly goes out to you, not joking a bit, I read the passion in your posts, but hang it up man, or atleast don't offer your services to others, I'm not saying this to be mean or my normal d1ck self, I mean this from my heart, this is a wake up call written in others blood, hang it up commercially at least.
 
jesse said:
There just is no evidence that points to any sudden stoppage theory. I mean..the prop is perfect..that prop did *not* strike anything under power. The engine came from together before the airplane made contact with the ground.
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You are absolutely right that engine was not making power when it hit the tree, but it was still spinning at a very good rate. thus the accessories were too.
note 1 blade is distorted, that is the blade that hit the tree, and stopped the rotation.
also notice there is no odd wear marks on any of the gear teeth of either gear, had either gear been loose or out of run position, the teeth wear would show that.

had there been any out of track running of the gears they would look some thing like the picture.
 

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James331 said:
Tom, dude my heart honestly goes out to you, not joking a bit, I read the passion in your posts, but hang it up man, or atleast don't offer your services to others, I'm not saying this to be mean or my normal d1ck self, I mean this from my heart, this is a wake up call written in others blood, hang it up commercially at least.
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commercially ?? do you really call what I do a commercial operation?
 
Tom-D said:
do you believe that gear was not spinning when it came off the shaft?
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I believe that it was spinning when it came off the shaft. The shaft stopped spinning soon thereafter.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is not entirely true. The conclusions/probable cause findings are not admissible, but the evidence and analysis obtained from the investigation can indeed be used in court.
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Doesn't that depend upon which state jurisdiction your in ? a lawyer I'm not
 
weilke said:
I believe that it was spinning when it came off the shaft. The shaft stopped spinning soon thereafter.
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This is the crankshaft gear. (normal operation it is the drive gear) had it came loose of the crankshaft and stopped driving the cam gear and the prop kept turning, wouldn't it show wear marks on the crankshaft end where it normally rides?
 
I'm reading this with interest, and don't have any valuable insight. I do feel for Tom, regardless of the blame game, a friend of his was seriously hurt. Let's not forget that. I know I'd feel terrible regardless if I felt I was to blame or not.
On a slightly different note, is anybody else seriously impressed at the depth of the NTSB investigation? I've had 2 non-direct dealings with them in the past, and they struck me as very cursory at best. The tear down, photos, analysis, etc for a non-fatal "routine" engine failure of a C150 is pretty impressive.
 
Tom-D said:
This is the crankshaft gear. (normal operation it is the drive gear) had it came loose of the crankshaft and stopped driving the cam gear and the prop kept turning, wouldn't it show wear marks on the crankshaft end where it normally rides?
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I'm saying the crank stopped spinning the accessories inertial energy sheared the bolts and that gear caused those marks as they stopped rotating a moment later.
the partial bolt found in the oil sump, fell there while the accessory case was removed. all other bolts and dowl were found in place with the gear. that gear did not spin very long after the bolts sheared, otherwise those marks would be much larger.

a note on this engine history. this owner had this engine quit 2 times at ORS on throttle up for take off two weeks prior to this accident. it would start again so the retreated to the ramp and inspected it. it ran great, they tried it again and it quit again. after a short wait, it started and ran great and it continued to run back to BVS. He never informed me about this until after the accident. because he blamed it on carb ice.

And NTSB was not informed until I spoke of it at the interview. and they never questioned the owner about it because he was in a induced coma during that period.

The NTSB report speaks of carb ice, then reports the weather from OKH, had they reported the weather from Port Angeles they would have seen fog, It is very normal for the fog to dissipate to the higher elevation along the Olympic Penn coast, than cross the water to OKH. the is one of the mistakes I believe the NTSB made in their report.
This engine was a known ice maker, the owner knew it, I knew it, the NTSB didn't.
 
James331 said:
Tom, dude my heart honestly goes out to you, not joking a bit.
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I'm glad to hear that, but you have been very critical of my work from day one. WHY?
 
Tom-D said:
I'm saying the crank stopped spinning the accessories inertial energy sheared the bolts and that gear caused those marks as they stopped rotating a moment later.
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That doesn't explain the uneven wear pattern and fatigue cracking of the dowel. There was a serious load on that dowel because some or all of the bolts had come loose.



There are only a few possibilities for a steel on steel threaded fastener to come loose:

- the steel is not manufactured to spec and the correct torque already puts it into plastic deformation (like a stretch bolt, except that it wasn't supposed to be one)
- the fastener wasn't correctly torqued.
 
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weilke said:
That doesn't explain the uneven wear pattern and fatigue cracking of the dowel. There was a serious load on that bolt because some or all of the bolts had come loose.
There are only a few possibilities for a steel on steel threaded fastener to come loose:
- the steel is not manufactured to spec and the correct torque already puts it into plastic deformation (like a stretch bolt, except that it wasn't supposed to be one)
- the fastener wasn't correctly torqued.
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That leaves a bad bolts or a bad wrench.
Believe me I do know what the click of a torque wrench feels like.
 
GlennAB1 said:
And your torque wrench was calibrated?
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First question Tom Little asked from his list of questions from the inspection team.

It was, and never dropped, cal tag dated 2 months prior. it goes in Monday for re-check. we will see
 
James331 said:
And do you honestly believe you made no mistakes on that overhaul?
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Even if Tom does feel that he made a mistake, is that a reason to give up his life's profession? I know of very few professionals in any field of endeavor that has never made a mistake. And I don't mean just one. Tom has been willing to share his experiences with us. Most would just hide and cover them up. Have you never made a mistake that could have come back and bitten you hard? I know I have, many times over my life.
 
JOhnH said:
Even if Tom does feel that he made a mistake, is that a reason to give up his life's profession? I know of very few professionals in any field of endeavor that has never made a mistake. And I don't mean just one. Tom has been willing to share his experiences with us. Most would just hide and cover them up. Have you never made a mistake that could have come back and bitten you hard? I know I have, many times over my life.
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A mistake that brought a aircraft down and landed its pilot and pax into two medevac choppers enroute for a level 1 trauma center, then into nursing homes, no.

Not all mistakes are created equal. Tom slipping with his screwdriver and scratching a cowl, that's a oops, dropping and shattering a nav light lense while changing out a bulb, oops, spilling a little cleaning solution on a seat, oops. Installing something backwards, then catching it, oh man that was close, When the NTSB gets involved that's a major F' up, when they point the cause solely at you, that warrants a self re assessment at the least.


Tom-D said:
I'm glad to hear that, but you have been very critical of my work from day one. WHY?
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Not all your work, I thought your Fairchild was quite pretty, I like the stuff you're doing with the EZ, your Stinson posts not so much, and this failure, not so much. Really what it was for me, was how defensive you were of your incorrect statement on that -1, that made me go hmmm, and now how you're not even entertaining you could have the slightest fault here,and are ready to overhaul more engines.
 
tom anything written by YOU here can be used against YOU i am just trying to help you,generally i enjoy your posts when you help others find a problem . i think you might even be a good guy. but posting about things were bodily injury is involved on a public forum is foolish.
 
hotprops said:
tom anything written by YOU here can be used against YOU i am just trying to help you,generally i enjoy your posts when you help others find a problem . i think you might even be a good guy. but posting about things were bodily injury is involved on a public forum is foolish.
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The resident douchebags posting in this thread (we all know who they are) probably want this. They want to provoke him into harming himself. It is sick and it would be better if they could reevaluate their own lives which are obviously lacking in some aspect and try to work towards something positive rather than trying to break someone else down.
 
ircphoenix said:
Did he bring his own knee pads or were those supplied?
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Actually he ran a tank dry on final and landed short of the runway. No injuries, no damage to the airplane. All he had to do was show the fed was that he could plan fuel.

Funny thing is, in the inspection it was found that the fuel cell had folded over on itself so it only held 20 gallons of fuel instead of a fuel 35 gallons.
 
Torque wrench checked today ..... "perfect"
And I have been told by my PMI the FAA has no intention of any farther actions.
when the FAA wants to check the actions of an IA it is called an audit. when that audit show farther action should be taken, they simply revoke or suspend the A&P, with out it you can't be a IA. To re-gain privileges it is a start over square 1 step 1.


We've had a death in our extended family, So I'll be off line for a while, and hope this will end he thread.
 
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