opinions on oil analysis lab

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Matt C

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Matt C
I am rapidly approaching my first oil change with this airplane. Are there any strong opinions here about Blackstone or AvLab for an oil and filter analysis kit? I can get AvLab from Wag and save some shipping by adding to an order. Any others to consider? I was going to get the filter cut locally, but it seems to me that a lab would be more thorough than a line guy with a solvent tank. With a high time engine I guess I should try to get some insight how it's doing. Thanks in advance....
 
depends.....on what you're expecting. Oil analysis will not indicate for all failure modes....just very small wear particulate.
 
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To clarify, I'm looking for some indication of condition. Not expecting a "failure timer". Do any labs do better than others was the original question.
 
Matt C said:
To clarify, I'm looking for some indication of condition. Not expecting a "failure timer". Do any labs do better than others was the original question.
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Matt,

Don't know about the difference between labs but suspect they are mostly the same in their evaluations. They are not looking for impending failure but are watching a wear trend, with the intent of telling you when your engine is worn enough to consider overhaul or repair. I've sent in a lot of oil samples in my time but consider them of little value unless there are part numbers in the sample. Had I seen that I would have advised the owner posthaste and given him my best advice regarding the situation.

Take my advice for what it'd worth and what you paid for it. It's an opinion based on experience of seeing metal in the filter or screen. How much and what it is is a consideration.
A small amount of aluminum is not of concern. Other metals, depending on their concentration, may be.
 
Norman said:
Matt,

Don't know about the difference between labs but suspect they are mostly the same in their evaluations. They are not looking for impending failure but are watching a wear trend, with the intent of telling you when your engine is worn enough to consider overhaul or repair. I've sent in a lot of oil samples in my time but consider them of little value unless there are part numbers in the sample. Had I seen that I would have advised the owner posthaste and given him my best advice regarding the situation.

Take my advice for what it'd worth and what you paid for it. It's an opinion based on experience of seeing metal in the filter or screen. How much and what it is is a consideration.
A small amount of aluminum is not of concern. Other metals, depending on their concentration, may be.
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Thanks for the reply. I intend to track this for a few oil changes to see if there is any trend in the analysis reports.
 
Matt C said:
To clarify, I'm looking for some indication of condition. Not expecting a "failure timer". Do any labs do better than others was the original question.
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one sample does not make a trend....and the value in the analysis is "the" trend.
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
once sample does not make a trend....and the value in the analysis is in the trend.
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Do you read any of this? I just posted "I intend to track this for a few oil changes..." One sample does not make a trend? Really?
 
Don't think one result will tell you much about condition, it's mostly used to make a base and trend off that.

For condition of go off of filter cuts, compression, EGT/CHT, oil temp and pressure and overall performance based off book numbers.
 
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James331 said:
Don't think one result will tell you much about condition, it's mostly used to make a base and trend off that.

For condition of go off of filter cuts, compression, EGT/CHT, oil temp and pressure and overall performance based off book numbers.
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cut filter and borescope valves and internal engine components is the best #1 first initial inspection impression.

Oil analysis will take 3-4 samples to determine anything.....bout 100-150 hours of use.
 
Matt C said:
Do you read any of this? I just posted "I intend to track this for a few oil changes..." One sample does not make a trend? Really?
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Ignore the trolls that live here for lack of a life!
I've used Blackstone and appreciate their hands on approach. If something worries them they'll call you. Otherwise you'll get the report via email.
Check their website for samples and explanations. Worst problem is dealing with uninformed idiots at the post office that think you can't mail engine oil.... Blackstone has an explanation to print out and bring to the post office if needed.
Good luck!
 
I used blackstone labs as well..very informative reports and accessible staff.
 
Do any of them send you a graph with the levels of what they have tested previously and the current test all graphed trend lines for you?
 
coloradobluesky said:
Do any of them send you a graph with the levels of what they have tested previously and the current test all graphed trend lines for you?
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My understanding is blackstone does this. I'm set up to use them as well. Haven't done my first change yet.
 
Reading a report from Blackstone is like reading a letter from a friend who really cares about you. A friend who tells you whether he feels good about you, or whether he's worried about you.

Reading a report from anyone else is like reading a data dump.
 
Thanks for the insights all. I've been out for the weekend and just getting caught up. I did order a kit from AvLab before receiving your posts, but I may re-think that now. I suppose if I end up with two (AvLab and Blackstone) of them, it would be an interesting comparison. I will update upon results.

Best....
 
I would only send the oil out and inspect the filter content myself, exactly in line with what Norman posted. Be more concerned with large chunks or a large amount of ferrous or bronze color metals.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I would only send the oil out and inspect the filter content myself, exactly in line with what Norman posted. Be more concerned with large chunks or a large amount of ferrous or bronze color metals.
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Thanks for the input. I'm curious, why not send the filter as well? I'm guessing to save money? I suppose if there was a main bearing in there I wouldn't need a lab to report it...
 
so maybe he does his own ferrouscopy-micro-nuclear-sonar-xRay-wavelength analysis?
 
Matt C said:
Thanks for the input. I'm curious, why not send the filter as well? I'm guessing to save money? I suppose if there was a main bearing in there I wouldn't need a lab to report it...
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No need to have a lab analyze the filter. You and your mechanic are the ones that should be doing that to make the decision whether what you're seeing is good or if the engine needs to come apart.

I honestly wouldn't even worry about oil analysis, the oil filter will give you ample warning that something is coming apart.
 
Large airplane engine mfgs purposely put metal of a certain type in bearings at the point where they are worn so much as to need replacement. When this metal shows up in oil analysis, its time to replace Bearing X.

Its really not something you need in a bugsmasher, although its an interesting exercise and you might learn something. Doesnt hurt anything except the cost, which is what? $22 or so per oil change. Keep them and show them to the prospective buyer when you sell the plane. Might get your money back when he is impressed!
 
Oil analysis can show many things. The trick is learning some of the many things. Maybe we should have a sticky on the topic with some of the things listed.

I like the simple ones. High silicone? Induction leak likely.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
so maybe he does his own ferrouscopy-micro-nuclear-sonar-xRay-wavelength analysis?
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No. I don't have spectrum analysis equipment to check the oil, so I'd send it out. Checking the content of the filter is more for looking for size and quantity, occasionally we find a gear tooth or piece of a seal. My recommendation is how we handle jet engines, we examine the filter content and send out the oil.
 
I am with Blackstone. I have used other oil analysis labs, also with good feedback. Like others state here, any decent A&P can show you how to cut a filter and what to look for. Also, for what it is worth, you may have a problem with your local post office mailing oil. Blackstone has a good explanatory letter on their website to take to the post office to show them, from USPS's own guidance, that mailing a sample of used il is perfectly safe and is in accordance with their own USPS protocols. I 'reeducate' the postal clerk every time, and still had samples hung up in transit. The problem has been solved by placing the sample in the proper container (also supplied by Blackstone) in one of the USPS flat rate small boxes. :)

To simplify and perhaps address your inquiry, the parts to your engine are made of different materials and alloys. By seeing what small amounts of each are found in your oil (and in what size), the lab and you will get an idea of what is wearing to the appropriate degree or what may be of concern.

It's worth the money spent, eases your concerns, and really helps a knowing future potential buyer understand how much you cared for this engine and airplane.
 
Special Air Service said:
I am with Blackstone. I have used other oil analysis labs, also with good feedback.
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+1 for everything SAS states. I've been using Blackstone for about 15 years.

I like their reports better than Avlabs. But that's a personal preference.

First couple of times I brought the mailing sheet to the post office. I never had a problem so now I just take it in and pay the postage.
 
donjohnston said:
First couple of times I brought the mailing sheet to the post office. I never had a problem so now I just take it in and pay the postage.
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The packaging provided by Blackstone (naked black bottle made of plastic, with a mailing label afixed, does sometimes surprise the clerk at the drugstore where I mail stuff. But they always accept it.

Eventually I always receive a report. Sometimes however it takes weeks, and that delay is the one downside of Blackstone in my experience. Maybe it takes time to compose those little essays that make their reports special.
 
just put the bottle in an envelope....problem solved. It's disguised enough not to look threatening. :D
 
NoHeat said:
Eventually I always receive a report. Sometimes however it takes weeks, and that delay is the one downside of Blackstone in my experience. Maybe it takes time to compose those little essays that make their reports special.
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I've gotten reports quickly and very late. I don't think they are lying when I call and they haven't yet received my sample. At least I'd like to think so. Doubt it has anything to do with composing "little essays".....
Always ready to talk to me and discuss my engine. As far as I'm concerned great vendor for our interests.
 
We're very happy with Blackstone for the airplane. Excellent reports, detailed notes on what they believe is going on, etc.

So much so, that I also baseline the diesel truck with them.

And our high silicon level wasn't technically an induction "leak" when it happened. It was a quarter sized hole in the air filter that would close up when the engine wasn't drawing air, so unless you looked hard, you couldn't see it.

Oil analysis caught it in a single oil change, and Blackstone told us we had a hole in our air filter. Ha. No kidding. It's that sensitive.

As others have said though, there's things it won't catch or not as well, and there's other methods of watching engine health besides the oil analysis. And you need samples over a fairly long time to get a good baseline for small problems that are likely to get bigger to be caught. Really big problems, the other methods can usually find quicker until that baseline is built.
 
Thanks again all. It sounds like Blackstone is winning and it sounds like they are quite thorough. Looking forward to my first experience with them. In addition to the first oil change we will be replacing all of the plugs (a few were marginal on the pre-buy) so it will offer opportunity for further inspection. We may do compressions again and bore scope while it's open as well as a good cleaning.
 
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