Onerous Bank Fees

[alaskaflyer]

My credit union offers everything a major bank offers and more, including online banking and bill pay. They even have an xml online banking page for my iphone.

No transaction fees.

Better interest rates on CD's and other instruments.

Better loan rates.

When you dial their 1800 number 24/7 you get a real person who answers the phone immediately.

Open membership.

I really don't understand why anyone is a customer of a major bank. Really.

 

[mikea]

Chase just seriously set my wife off the other day. For the last 3-4 months, her due date on her credit card bill has been changing by more than a few days every month. This last month, her payment (in full every month) was credited the day after the due date, incurring a late fee.

Chase credit card customer support (which, by the way, is specific to credit cards - they have a different number for each department, and NO central customer support number that we could find) would not, and said they "COULD NOT" reverse the late fee. Escalating to a manager did no good - same story. Wife said "Cancel the card." and she cut it up.

I also have a Chase card, and my home mortgage is thru Chase. Think I could find a customer care person who cared? Not so much.

Don't cha know why Chase dissed you?

"in full every month"

You're a deadbeat. Seriously. That's what they call you. That's why they jiggled the due date to get some money out of you and that's why they weren't going to let you talk them out of that money.

You were right to dump the card.

 

[Ghery]

Chase just seriously set my wife off the other day. For the last 3-4 months, her due date on her credit card bill has been changing by more than a few days every month. This last month, her payment (in full every month) was credited the day after the due date, incurring a late fee.

Chase credit card customer support (which, by the way, is specific to credit cards - they have a different number for each department, and NO central customer support number that we could find) would not, and said they "COULD NOT" reverse the late fee. Escalating to a manager did no good - same story. Wife said "Cancel the card." and she cut it up.

I also have a Chase card, and my home mortgage is thru Chase. Think I could find a customer care person who cared? Not so much.

Chase customer no-service is precisely why I wrote a letter to the president of the bank (and the Comptroller of the Currency) firing them for unreasonable charges back in 2001.

I think I have a Chase card again, but it is the Circuit City card that I got when I bought the new TV in November - 18 months no interest. That's the only thing on the card, and the account goes away when the TV is paid off. I know, why didn't I just pay cash? Hey, if Circuit City wants to let me play with their money interest free, who am I to complain?

 

[mikea]

Chase customer no-service is precisely why I wrote a letter to the president of the bank (and the Comptroller of the Currency) firing them for unreasonable charges back in 2001.

I think I have a Chase card again, but it is the Circuit City card that I got when I bought the new TV in November - 18 months no interest. That's the only thing on the card, and the account goes away when the TV is paid off. I know, why didn't I just pay cash? Hey, if Circuit City wants to let me play with their money interest free, who am I to complain?

Again they hope that the previous shenanigans will get you to make a late payment so they can hit you with every single bit of the "no interest." You're in a war of wills and they're the ones with the big law firms and the agreement forcing you into arbitration.

 

[astanley]

When I was selling cars and running credit checks, I saw more people with bad marks from Discover (when they held other cards with no bad marks) than any other. They seem to have been the ones to originate the "floating payment date" and would not only charge a late fee, but also report the payment which was made to the prior schedule as "late" to the reporting agencies, so whatcha gonna do? My best Bank is still Bank Atlantic down here in Fl, and I also keep an account with Citibank that I use for international purposes (I can exchange currency with them and they don't charge me any exchange fees on transactions made in various countries).

Do you know if Citibank still offers that service? I hate carrying any amount of cash greater than $100 USD on my person when travelling, and I've got almost 40 days abroad coming up in the next three months... and I calculated out an average 12.5% loss on cash withdrawals when I travel abroad

Cheers,

-Andrew
who is seemingly going to every country in the world where the USD is getting absolutely drilled in the next quarter

 

[Henning]

Do you know if Citibank still offers that service? I hate carrying any amount of cash greater than $100 USD on my person when travelling, and I've got almost 40 days abroad coming up in the next three months... and I calculated out an average 12.5% loss on cash withdrawals when I travel abroad

Cheers,

-Andrew
who is seemingly going to every country in the world where the USD is getting absolutely drilled in the next quarter

I don't know what the new accounts Citibank offers are, I've held this one for quite some time. It's a no fees account but I only carry a small balance in it. I typically use it so that clients a half a world away can get money to me quickly. Personally, I carry large quantities of cash with me. Some people say I'm nuts for doing it, and I guess they have a point, but I've never had a problem doing it, and I've had nightmares in some regions of the world with travellers cheques and credit cards (even Visa and MC, forget AMEX or DISC) that I basically carry whatever quantity of cash I'm likely to need. The nice thing about the US Dollar is you can spend it anywhere in the world, and cash deals give you some serious bargaining power, especially when your driver in Nigeria runs over someones freakin chicken.

 

[jwriteclub]

cash deals give you some serious bargaining power, especially when your driver in Nigeria runs over someones freakin chicken.

Ditto.

The US dollar may have slipped a lot, but in the third world, the bargaining power of a Benjamin is not to be ignored (although it is possible to tip your hand, the artful bribe starts out small).

As I like to point out to people, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act prohibits bribery of government official in order to change the outcome of procurement or other functions, it doesn't prohibit a 'gift' from you to the headman of (insert village name) in order to show the friendship between them and the United States.

Trust me, the difference between spreading a little grease in Africa and being a tight fisted morally superior SOB is the difference between getting stuff done and not.

~ Christopher

 

[mikea]

Re: Is it really getting this bad?

Just got the letter with the great news that my bank will be fully renamed to be Bank of America. I'm soooo excited!

Now I get sign up to the breakthrough BoA "Keep the change (TM)" program that rounds up my purchases using my debit card for my checking account to put my pennies into my savings. Woot! I'm gonna be rich!

 

[gprellwitz]

Re: Is it really getting this bad?

Now I get sign up to the breakthrough BoA "Keep the change (TM)" program that rounds up my purchases using my debit card for my checking account to put my pennies into my savings. Woot! I'm gonna be rich!

Don't they do that with credit cards too, so if you carry a balance you're paying CC interest on those extra pennies?

 

[mikea]

Thought you were switching?? We'll never get bought out - we're already foreign owned!

I did. It's in da mail. Unless they tell me my credit is suddenly bad, I'll be there.
...

Hey, Barry, I just got two letters. 1 ) My new account is open. 2 ) My initial deposit which I handled with a bank transfer - and, as I'm a rich airplane owner, is in the low 4 figures - was executed on 3/10. The notice says I can have access to my funds on 3/19.

It is a nice little form that shows the reason for the hold, being that it's a new account.

It's everywhere.

 

[wsuffa]

And I just took the last autopay off of a BoA/MBNA card that I left there for expense tracking purposes. The card will (like my other BoA card) remain unused. I want to keep it alive as it's one of the oldest accounts I have and that ranks favorably in the credit scores.

They moved the due date so far up this month that the bill arrived 24 hours before it was due - and it takes 48 hours to process an online payment. Unless you pay more, of course.

 

[bstratt]

Welcome aboard! Now don't get into any trouble or you'll meet me!

My initial deposit which I handled with a bank transfer - and, as I'm a rich airplane owner, is in the low 4 figures - was executed on 3/10. The notice says I can have access to my funds on 3/19.

It is a nice little form that shows the reason for the hold, being that it's a new account.

It's everywhere.

 

[astanley]

And I just took the last autopay off of a BoA/MBNA card that I left there for expense tracking purposes. The card will (like my other BoA card) remain unused. I want to keep it alive as it's one of the oldest accounts I have and that ranks favorably in the credit scores.

They moved the due date so far up this month that the bill arrived 24 hours before it was due - and it takes 48 hours to process an online payment. Unless you pay more, of course.

Absolutely, 100% ethically corrupt behavior. I !@#$@#$@# hate the bankers.

Cheers,

-Andrew
stone-throwing corporate ho

 

[woodstock]

You know, I have only ever used a credit union. Well, other than my houses. My one credit card - credit union. Money markets, savings, checking - credit union.

 

[bstratt]

Absolutely, 100% ethically corrupt behavior. I !@#$@#$@# hate the bankers.

Hold on a second - that's a rather damning generalization! Most bankers are just employees who work there.

 

[astanley]

Hold on a second - that's a rather damning generalization! Most bankers are just employees who work there.

It is Barry, and a bit unfair. But, IME, there are a great deal of mid-level and senior execs who just engage in behavior that is beyond reprehensible. It's a cancer in all firms; but it doesn't quite affect the consumer in such a direct manner as it does in insurance and banking (since most consumers heavily leverage said services but have nary a clue how they actually work).

My $0.02.

Cheers,

-Andrew
worked in both, happy to be somewhere else.

 

[bstratt]

It is Barry, and a bit unfair. But, IME, there are a great deal of mid-level and senior execs who just engage in behavior that is beyond reprehensible. It's a cancer in all firms; but it doesn't quite affect the consumer in such a direct manner as it does in insurance and banking (since most consumers heavily leverage said services but have nary a clue how they actually work).

My $0.02.

Cheers,

-Andrew
worked in both, happy to be somewhere else.

OK [mounting soap box here!] - Two things:
1) people get what they deserve by way of directors, etc. The single minded demand of analysts and therefor investors is for continuing quarter over quarter income growth - not even year over year, and growth that exceeds peer average. Let's put this in perspective - we have two companies - A & B. "A" takes its money each quarter and goes to Vegas- bets it all or nothing on black/red at roulette - wins and portrays a 100% return. "B" puts its money in Treasuries and earns a nominal %. Analysts (who don't understand the risks of what the companies are doing) laud the exec of "A" and wonder where "B" is going wrong. Next quarter, same thing. "A" now has a track record of exemplary returns. "B"'s shareholders now turf out the exec of "B", hire one of the stellar leaders of "A" to generate the same returns with B. The new exec knows his career (and remuneration) is dependant on matching A so he goes to Vegas too. At some future date they both loose and the house is gone and the execs are blamed.
2) Sub-prime mortgage holders who blame the banks are the same idiots who refuse to pay there credit card bills by saying if the banks hadn't given them their limits they wouldn't have spent the money, therefor its the bank's fault and they shouldn't have to repay! Whatever happened to caveat emptor? Our school systems are completely inadequate in this area. We can generate nuclear physicists who can't balance their checkbook! People don't understand interest rates and the impact of 24% interest. Why are American's the lowest "savers" in the world? We need to get the principals of budgeting, finance and contract law into each and every high school.

[getting off soap box]

 

[Henning]

Why are American's the lowest "savers" in the world?

Because we ship all our money to China and India to build their economies. American cultural education is to spend it.

 

[astanley]

OK [mounting soap box here!] - Two things:
1) people get what they deserve by way of directors, etc. The single minded demand of analysts and therefor investors is for continuing quarter over quarter income growth - not even year over year, and growth that exceeds peer average. Let's put this in perspective - we have two companies - A & B. "A" takes its money each quarter and goes to Vegas- bets it all or nothing on black/red at roulette - wins and portrays a 100% return. "B" puts its money in Treasuries and earns a nominal %. Analysts (who don't understand the risks of what the companies are doing) laud the exec of "A" and wonder where "B" is going wrong. Next quarter, same thing. "A" now has a track record of exemplary returns. "B"'s shareholders now turf out the exec of "B", hire one of the stellar leaders of "A" to generate the same returns with B. The new exec knows his career (and remuneration) is dependant on matching A so he goes to Vegas too. At some future date they both loose and the house is gone and the execs are blamed.
2) Sub-prime mortgage holders who blame the banks are the same idiots who refuse to pay there credit card bills by saying if the banks hadn't given them their limits they wouldn't have spent the money, therefor its the bank's fault and they shouldn't have to repay! Whatever happened to caveat emptor? Our school systems are completely inadequate in this area. We can generate nuclear physicists who can't balance their checkbook! People don't understand interest rates and the impact of 24% interest. Why are American's the lowest "savers" in the world? We need to get the principals of budgeting, finance and contract law into each and every high school.

[getting off soap box]

Barry, all good points. Without writing a multi-page rant (as it would ruin my Saturday ), there are a few other items that I think bear mentioning:

1) Risk analysis is dead. I have a (unusually) large number of friends who did grad work in finance and now work in risk analysis at diverse set of firms. They all bemoan the erosion of their authority over the past few years -- all to appease those same analysts, investors, and boards -- but mostly because of the re-introduction of uber-quantitative theory (e.g. LTCM, only with more money!) has seemingly legitimized and enabled people to make arguably stupid decisions. Yes, if you took out a loan and didn't understand it, it's your fault. But also, on far larger level, where were the lending standards of these banks? Common, simplistic risk analysis would have driven most of these people out of these products. These firms pump dollars into pools of borrowers that CANNOT meet service requirements if the interest rates go the wrong way, and then come begging for a f***ing handout. WTF?

2) Isn't it surreal that so many of these firms take a financial dump into the laps of taxpayers and come back asking for a bailout? Or, even worse, for the Fed to meddle in the market? They're just trying to bet their way out of the market; get the Fed to keep vol in play and they will find ways to "vacuum up the nickels"

Consumer's being stupid isn't a business plan; Countrywide proved that. But it is a way for our tanned-and-white-toothy-grinned friend Angelo to cash in.



Cheers,

-Andrew