Onerous Bank Fees

jwriteclub

jwriteclub

Line Up and Wait
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Dec 11, 2007
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Tucson, Arizona
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WhIteSidE
I have for some time had a Bank of America checking account so that I can have a Visa check card that works free at a lot of ATMs (when I got it my bank only had an ATM card, not a check card).

I normally keep a fairly small balance (<$1000) because I use it online. I am also one of those anal retentive people who keeps a tiny "check register" for my account so that I never get overdrawn.

Recently, while flying through London, I used the card for several purchases. The total value of these was about $90 USD. I only had about $150 in the account, but I was coming back from a long trip, and I figured I'd deposit some more money when I got back, and in any case, $90 (GBP 45) is less than $150, so, I'm ok.

When I tried to use my card, I kept getting denied and having to call the collect "fraud" prevention number -- even though I called them before I left and told them where I was going to be.

I was looking at my statement today, and was mysteriously hugely overdrawn. How could this be? After talking to the manager, each charge, I made I got charge a small foreign transaction fee, by the card issuer and by B of A, thus each of the 5 transaction had two additional transactions, for a total of 15 transactions on the account. Now, I'm not a huge fan of transaction fees, but as these were mostly a fraction of a dollar, I would have lived.

However, each transaction for which I'd had to call the the fraud line had a $23 "Foreign Fraud Checkline Charge" for each of the transactions including the fees. Thus, I had $276 (there were a total of 12 charges) in fees. To make matters worse, for each fee below my zero balance, I was charged a $35 overdraft fee. A total of $385 was charged, giving me nearly $500 negative balance for $90 of charges on an account with a significant positive balance.

Needless to say, I had an anurism at the bank, and the manager removed the fees, but still. This makes me quite angry, and I fully intend to close the account.

~ Christopher
 
I just got back from my bank soon-be-a-BOA. I asked if I could have some counter checks. I'm sorry, we don't give out checks any more. "Really?" I say, wondering how long I'm supposed to let them keep my money while I don't have access to it. "How long would it take for me to get checks if I order them?" Two weeks.

You see, I have resisted ordering checks because I fully intended to close the account before I got BOAed. I bank online anyway. Think this made me change my mind?

What I had in the car was the account application at the new bank. I sent it.

BOA also bought Countrywide. I'm thinking I'm going to refinance and not ask them for a quote.

My luck I'll get caught up in another BOA buyout eventually anyway.

BTW, my bank offered me a BOA credit card. I said, "I don't want Bank of America-anything."
 
I closed my BoA account last October; well sort of. I withdrew as much as I could by ATM on a Friday night before I went to open a new account with a small, regional bank the next morning.

For five months now, I've been getting statements indicating a four cent balance. I wonder how much it cost them to send out those statements? :)
 
mikea said:
I just got back from my bank soon-be-a-BOA. I asked if I could have some counter checks. I'm sorry, we don't give out checks any more. "Really?" I say, wondering how long I'm supposed to let them keep my money while I don't have access to it. "How long would it take for me to get checks if I order them?" Two weeks.

You see, I have resisted ordering checks because I fully intended to close the account before I got BOAed. I bank online anyway. Think this made me change my mind?

What I had in the car was the account application at the new bank. I sent it.

BOA also bought Countrywide. I'm thinking I'm going to refinance and not ask them for a quote.

My luck I'll get caught up in another BOA buyout eventually anyway.

BTW, my bank offered me a BOA credit card. I said, "I don't want Bank of America-anything."
Click to expand...

Thought you were switching?? We'll never get bought out - we're already foreign owned!
 
bstratt said:
Thought you were switching?? We'll never get bought out - we're already foreign owned!
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I did. It's in da mail. Unless they tell me my credit is suddenly bad, I'll be there.

Now you want to bid on a refinance? I think I should find a mortgage broker, but I have no idea how to get a referral. I'm gonna ask my lawyer buddy.
 
mikea said:
I did. It's in da mail. Unless they tell me my credit is suddenly bad, I'll be there.

Now you want to bid on a refinance? I think I should find a mortgage broker, but I have no idea how to get a referral. I'm gonna ask my lawyer buddy.
Click to expand...

Very few mortgage brokers around these days. Most have gone bust!

Talk to the bank.
 
bstratt said:
Very few mortgage brokers around these days. Most have gone bust!

Talk to the bank.
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I heard some *cough* mortgage experts last week on the weekly infomercial on the AM radio.

"There's no reason not to come in! We'll write you at the current 5.n% with no fees and when the rates go down we'll just do again. There are no fees so why not?"

It sounded great, but I couldn't hear much more because the alarm bells were ringing in my ears. :p
 
mikea said:
I heard some *cough* on the weekly infomerical on the AM radio.

:p
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One of the more popular mortgage brokers in the Chicago market who spends an inordinate amount of time on the radio and TV is currently in danger of losing his $6MM+ house (almost $7MM in debt on it) as well as his $3MM gold coast condo, and his first wife's house!!
 
smigaldi said:
People still have BoA accounts? WHY?
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I haven't figured that out. I closed mine about 15yrs ago over the same kind of crap jwrite is complaining about. The last straw was when they wanted to charge my employees money to cash their paychecks. "I'm closing my account" "Why?" "Because you are not a customer friendly bank."
 
Henning said:
I haven't figured that out. I closed mine about 15yrs ago over the same kind of crap jwrite is complaining about. The last straw was when they wanted to charge my employees money to cash their paychecks. "I'm closing my account" "Why?" "Because you are not a customer friendly bank."
Click to expand...

You gotta believe the way BOA sells these acquisitions to the board is trusting they can use the frog-in-the-boiling-water technique to slowly change terms and raise fees to get the dollars to pay for all of the bonuses they paid out in the merger.

I'm hoping that they don't have much wiggle room on my mortgage contract, but there is way to charge a "too frequent on time payment" fee or a "we had to mail your insurance payment from escrow" fee I'm sure they'll eventually do it.
 
I'm closing it on Monday, as the friendly, local bank offers a much more versatile combo check/ATM card now, and online banking.

~ Christopher
 
Henning said:
I haven't figured that out. I closed mine about 15yrs ago over the same kind of crap jwrite is complaining about. The last straw was when they wanted to charge my employees money to cash their paychecks. "I'm closing my account" "Why?" "Because you are not a customer friendly bank."
Click to expand...

Remember, what is now BofA was NCNB - North Carolina National Bank - got its trip to the big leagues when the FDIC (wrongly) declared First Republic Bank of Texas insolvent and handed it to NCNb (without the "bad" loans). They immediately set out on a course of fee-ing everything to death, and I fail to understand how they ever lure people to do business with them.

When I came back to Texas to go to law school, I went to reactivate a checking account I had there, and they told me the fee schedule- I asked if they could waive some of them, and they told me, in essence, that my account was nothing close to big enough to merit any treatment.

So, I closed it and continued my relationship with what was then "Savings of America" (Home Savings of America, elsewhere), and when we sold our house a few months later, the substantial six-figure proceeds went into money market accounts nowhere near NCNB. They sure showed me.

mikea said:
You gotta believe the way BOA sells these acquisitions to the board is trusting they can use the frog-in-the-boiling-water technique to slowly change terms and raise fees to get the dollars to pay for all of the bonuses they paid out in the merger.

I'm hoping that they don't have much wiggle room on my mortgage contract, but there is way to charge a "too frequent on time payment" fee or a "we had to mail your insurance payment from escrow" fee I'm sure they'll eventually do it.
Click to expand...

I still believe that their practice of charging a fee for cashing a check- drawn on THEIR BANK- ought to be illegal. Checks are called "demand" instruments for a reason. There have been a few times I have gotten questionable instruments, and have scurried on over there and collected on them. I imagine their policy of charging for cashing checks goes hand-in-hand with their policy of clearing the largest items first, thus ensuring that if the depositor makes a mistake and overdraws, the amount that they pay in fees is maximized.

As for my banking, Savings of America was acquired by Washington Mutual, and I was quite ready to hate their guts, but they have turned out to be very responsive and friendly, and they do not "fee" you to death, so I have stayed with them.

My business banking is done at a locally-owned bank, one which has a branch downstairs from my office, and it is nice to have an established relationship with an actual, honest-to-goodness banker- it makes routine loan applications so much easier (Banker: "How much you need?" Spike: "'Bout that much." Banker: "Let me know when you need the money, Linda'll have the docs for you to sign." ba da bing.).

I believe I can go my whole life and manage never to use BofA again. Oh wait, they just bought Countrywide, didn't they? :hairraise:
 
Who's this "John Shipley(Shibley??), whose commercials boast about "We're making plenty of money as it is, we don't need to keep charging closing fees; refinance with us. If the rates go down we'll go down and refinance you with no closing costs, yada-yada?"
He's been on WBZ(Boston) for years with what I thought to be a Boston telephone exchange. So in late 2005 there I was in Phoenix/Scottsdale on my way from PHX to my house and I nearly collapsed when I heard the same darned commercial. Who is he and what's his game? It can't in the consumer's best interest. ????????????

HR
 
Those of us who are vehemently opposed to BoA need to express that to AOPA. If AOPA is not aware, they will continue status quo and not seek a better banking relationship, at least for the AOPA credit card. I spoke out against BoA when I last renewed with AOPA.

AOPA gains a lot of funding from the use of those credit cards. If members cease using them and AOPA knows this, at some point they will be forced to seek out a different banking relationship.
 
Lawreston said:
Who's this "John Shipley(Shibley??), whose commercials boast about "We're making plenty of money as it is, we don't need to keep charging closing fees; refinance with us. If the rates go down we'll go down and refinance you with no closing costs, yada-yada?"
He's been on WBZ(Boston) for years with what I thought to be a Boston telephone exchange. So in late 2005 there I was in Phoenix/Scottsdale on my way from PHX to my house and I nearly collapsed when I heard the same darned commercial. Who is he and what's his game? It can't in the consumer's best interest. ????????????

HR
Click to expand...

I thought the guy I heard was in a Chicago suburb like he was saying they had an office nearby. I also had the impression teh callers were in town, too.

Could he the same.

How much you wanna bet that the scam is "For highly qualified borrowers" and you ain't one. And ain't nobody who is is one.
 
mikea said:
I thought the guy I heard was in a Chicago suburb like he was saying they had an office nearby. I also had the impression teh callers were in town, too.

Could he the same.

How much you wanna bet that the scam is "For highly qualified borrowers" and you ain't one. And ain't nobody who is is one.
Click to expand...

The reason I thought he is Boston related is the "Lenox Financial" name, Lenox being a telephone exchange in Boston(or used to be) and the Lenox Hotel, where the Boston Celtics have long held their victory celebrations; and it's the physical end of the line for the Boston Marathon.

Nope! http://www.azstarnet.com/business/202821 and John Shibley has had his feathers trimmed.

HR
 
KennyFlys said:
Those of us who are vehemently opposed to BoA need to express that to AOPA. If AOPA is not aware, they will continue status quo and not seek a better banking relationship, at least for the AOPA credit card. I spoke out against BoA when I last renewed with AOPA.

AOPA gains a lot of funding from the use of those credit cards. If members cease using them and AOPA knows this, at some point they will be forced to seek out a different banking relationship.
Click to expand...

Not as long as BoA gives them the best deal. AOPA doesn't care squat if BoA screws us so long as they get theirs.
 
Lenox is pretty active in Atlanta and about a twelve county region. I've done some courier work for them over the last couple years. None of those borrowers appeared to be going after jumbo loans. But rather, barely $100-150k in most cases.
 
Henning said:
Not as long as BoA gives them the best deal. AOPA doesn't care squat if BoA screws us so long as they get theirs.
Click to expand...
That's why the members need to constantly voice their opinion of BoA and refusal to use or posses a BoA credit card.
 
KennyFlys said:
Those of us who are vehemently opposed to BoA need to express that to AOPA. If AOPA is not aware, they will continue status quo and not seek a better banking relationship, at least for the AOPA credit card. I spoke out against BoA when I last renewed with AOPA.

AOPA gains a lot of funding from the use of those credit cards. If members cease using them and AOPA knows this, at some point they will be forced to seek out a different banking relationship.
Click to expand...

Henning said:
Not as long as BoA gives them the best deal. AOPA doesn't care squat if BoA screws us so long as they get theirs.
Click to expand...

KennyFlys said:
That's why the members need to constantly voice their opinion of BoA and refusal to use or posses a BoA credit card.
Click to expand...

Right. If they don't get enough revenue from suckers AOPA and BOA will terminate the relationship.
 
Henning said:
Who would they go to that treats the consumer any better?
Click to expand...
Of all the credit cards I've held, the best service I've seen was from Discover. Second was from Chase.

The one I'd avoid is Capital One. They report only a high credit and not a limit. That keeps a score from being determined by use of total credit available and keeps the overall scoring lower than it would be otherwise. As a result, it becomes more difficult to obtain credit elsewhere.
 
mikea said:
BOA is the not the only affinity card deal. In this case they just happened to buy the card business from MBNA.
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MBNA had awesome customer service back then. BoA is all about the money, customer service be damned. Recall how fast they changed the benefits previously received under MBNA?
 
KennyFlys said:
Of all the credit cards I've held, the best service I've seen was from Discover. Second was from Chase.

The one I'd avoid is Capital One. They report only a high credit and not a limit. That keeps a score from being determined by use of total credit available and keeps the overall scoring lower than it would be otherwise. As a result, it becomes more difficult to obtain credit elsewhere.
Click to expand...

When I was selling cars and running credit checks, I saw more people with bad marks from Discover (when they held other cards with no bad marks) than any other. They seem to have been the ones to originate the "floating payment date" and would not only charge a late fee, but also report the payment which was made to the prior schedule as "late" to the reporting agencies, so whatcha gonna do? My best Bank is still Bank Atlantic down here in Fl, and I also keep an account with Citibank that I use for international purposes (I can exchange currency with them and they don't charge me any exchange fees on transactions made in various countries).
 
Lawreston said:
Who's this "John Shipley(Shibley??), whose commercials boast about "We're making plenty of money as it is, we don't need to keep charging closing fees; refinance with us. If the rates go down we'll go down and refinance you with no closing costs, yada-yada?"
He's been on WBZ(Boston) for years with what I thought to be a Boston telephone exchange. So in late 2005 there I was in Phoenix/Scottsdale on my way from PHX to my house and I nearly collapsed when I heard the same darned commercial. Who is he and what's his game? It can't in the consumer's best interest. ????????????

HR
Click to expand...

No clue, but his ads are on the radio in the Seattle market, too. My bet (just a guess) is that every time they refinance you've just started the 30 year clock over again. No thanks.
 
Ghery said:
No clue, but his ads are on the radio in the Seattle market, too. My bet (just a guess) is that every time they refinance you've just started the 30 year clock over again. No thanks.
Click to expand...

Yeah. True. But I just realized that each time you'll only financing the current principal. Even after only a year, I've paid it down a few thousand.
 
On the topic of charging to cash a check, some of the BoA branches will hold large cash deposits (not clear them for several days).

"The cash might be counterfeit, we can't credit your account."

When I mentioned the state banking authority they cleared it right away.

I'm closing the account tomorrow.

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
On the topic of charging to cash a check, some of the BoA branches will hold large cash deposits (not clear them for several days).

"The cash might be counterfeit, we can't credit your account."

When I mentioned the state banking authority they cleared it right away.

I'm closing the account tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I just heard from a guy who had his mortgage payment bounce because he deposited too much money to cover it, and for that reason they held the funds for 5 days. (Not the BOA.)
 
jwriteclub said:
I have for some time had a Bank of America checking account so that I can have a Visa check card that works free at a lot of ATMs (when I got it my bank only had an ATM card, not a check card).

I normally keep a fairly small balance (<$1000) because I use it online. I am also one of those anal retentive people who keeps a tiny "check register" for my account so that I never get overdrawn.

Recently, while flying through London, I used the card for several purchases. The total value of these was about $90 USD. I only had about $150 in the account, but I was coming back from a long trip, and I figured I'd deposit some more money when I got back, and in any case, $90 (GBP 45) is less than $150, so, I'm ok.

When I tried to use my card, I kept getting denied and having to call the collect "fraud" prevention number -- even though I called them before I left and told them where I was going to be.

I was looking at my statement today, and was mysteriously hugely overdrawn. How could this be? After talking to the manager, each charge, I made I got charge a small foreign transaction fee, by the card issuer and by B of A, thus each of the 5 transaction had two additional transactions, for a total of 15 transactions on the account. Now, I'm not a huge fan of transaction fees, but as these were mostly a fraction of a dollar, I would have lived.

However, each transaction for which I'd had to call the the fraud line had a $23 "Foreign Fraud Checkline Charge" for each of the transactions including the fees. Thus, I had $276 (there were a total of 12 charges) in fees. To make matters worse, for each fee below my zero balance, I was charged a $35 overdraft fee. A total of $385 was charged, giving me nearly $500 negative balance for $90 of charges on an account with a significant positive balance.

Needless to say, I had an anurism at the bank, and the manager removed the fees, but still. This makes me quite angry, and I fully intend to close the account.

~ Christopher
Click to expand...

Those fees ought to be illegal. Travel internationally? use a credit card, not a debit/check card. (actually, that's good advice everywhere as you have less rights with debit/check cards as opposed to credit - essentially, there is less liability for fraudulent use with credit cards).

Christopher: are you ex-military? Are your parents current or former military? If the answer to either is "yes", then USAA is your answer. Look into their banking product - it even allows deposit-from-home using your computer scanner.

Henning said:
Not as long as BoA gives them the best deal. AOPA doesn't care squat if BoA screws us so long as they get theirs.
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Hennig, the problem is that BoA's purchase of MBNA has made them the largest affinity card issuer in the country. There are very, very few competitors, meaning they can do whatever they want.

mikea said:
BOA is the not the only affinity card deal. In this case they just happened to buy the card business from MBNA.
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BoA is the largest....

flyingcheesehead said:
"But... But... We have a FIVE STAR SERVICE GUARANTEE!" :rolleyes:

Two words: Credit Union. :yes:
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Credit union is great, if you can join. I find USAA's online bank to be about as good as Credit unions.
 
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I'm actually a credit union member, and I have a great local bank, the problem was, for a long time they didn't have online banking and a lot of the other "techy" stuff I like.

That having been said, I just closed my account.

"Why are you closing your account?"

"Umm . . . , where do you want me to start"

~ Christopher

P.S. I seem to recall that I just got some money from a class action relating to illegal foreign transaction fees. You'd think they'd learn their lesson.

~ Christopher
 
I gotta say, I banked with a good sized local bank in the St. Louis area called Southern Commercial Bank (well, they were good-sized for a local bank at 5 branches). After I moved to Houston, I tried to stay with them for a long time because I liked their customer service and they had the online banking and no fees, etc. As soon as they started charging a foreign ATM service fee of $1.00/transaction (in addition to the fee I paid to the ATM itself) for any ATM that wasn't one of theirs, I switched. Now I'm with Chase and I couldn't be happier. My credit cards are through Chase and Capital One, though with the comment above about the credit reporting habits of C1, I may have to drop that one.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
I gotta say, I banked with a good sized local bank in the St. Louis area called Southern Commercial Bank (well, they were good-sized for a local bank at 5 branches). After I moved to Houston, I tried to stay with them for a long time because I liked their customer service and they had the online banking and no fees, etc. As soon as they started charging a foreign ATM service fee of $1.00/transaction (in addition to the fee I paid to the ATM itself) for any ATM that wasn't one of theirs, I switched. Now I'm with Chase and I couldn't be happier. My credit cards are through Chase and Capital One, though with the comment above about the credit reporting habits of C1, I may have to drop that one.
Click to expand...

:D Chase just became the first bank to charge non-customers $2 ($3?) to use their ATMs.
 
Chase just seriously set my wife off the other day. For the last 3-4 months, her due date on her credit card bill has been changing by more than a few days every month. This last month, her payment (in full every month) was credited the day after the due date, incurring a late fee.

Chase credit card customer support (which, by the way, is specific to credit cards - they have a different number for each department, and NO central customer support number that we could find) would not, and said they "COULD NOT" reverse the late fee. Escalating to a manager did no good - same story. Wife said "Cancel the card." and she cut it up.

I also have a Chase card, and my home mortgage is thru Chase. Think I could find a customer care person who cared? Not so much.
 
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