One bent controller

sferguson524

sferguson524

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
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Las Vegas
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FormerSocalFlyer
Home Airfield
VGT
Was out doing pattern work at VGT with a CFI (knocking that rust off), and I managed to really **** the tower controller off.. Misheard her calls, thought calls for other aircraft were for me, and generally honked her off. Didn't get a number to call, but shoot, haven't had any issues like this in almost 200 hrs of flying. Lesson learned, don't try out a new headset when it's busy, and tell the chatty CFI to shoosh from time to time
 
sferguson524 said:
Yeah, went back and listened to the audio, she cleared us to turn crosswind, then in the next transmission yelled at us for turning crosswind. Whatever.. better than being at work
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I know they get stressed but hopefully she doesn’t get that worked up over something like that!


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Everyone has a bad day from time to time,you just happened to be the recipient of her mood.
 
I seem to recall from my time there that VGT does a lot of controller training. They need time to train and time to develop just like pilots.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I seem to recall from my time there that VGT does a lot of controller training. They need time to train and time to develop just like pilots.
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Thanks for that insight. Guess they're human too.. CFI commented he hates it when she's on local, since today wasn't the first time he'd had issues with her
 
Reagan got rid of a bunch of attitude controllers in the early 80s. Must be their offspring.
 
Is this worth a call to a supervisor? Might save someone some grief someday. I know this may be overkill, but only you know how bad and how often.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I seem to recall from my time there that VGT does a lot of controller training. They need time to train and time to develop just like pilots.
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FWIW EVERY ATC facility has a lot of training going on. Every facility.
 
the way I look at it is if you can’t handle the stress and they are like that all the time then they need to work somewhere else... it is there job to relay and receive information to allow safe air travel... repeated occurrences of portraying an attitude in this way not only is rude as hell but dangerous... think of it this way.. a low time pilot afraid to speak up about a flight safety issue because they sound like they are having a bad day... that is unprofessional and unacceptable...


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Doubt she’s a student. Your grouchy controllers are like pilots. They’ve gotten so tired of their jobs that they take it out on the person on the other end of the freq. If I got an attitude with a pilot as a student, I would’ve been unplugged and my a$$ would be doing push-ups on the radar room floor, with a big fat red “U” for the day. Of course that’s Marines. You have to be careful how you treat your students in the FAA.

Not sure what her deal is with you turning crosswind either. Absent an “extend upwind” you turn crosswind on your own. Preferably, off the departure end and 300 ft below pattern altitude.
 
By letting it slide you are just encouraging her abuse. Should have had a talk with her supervisor and perhaps the next step up the chain too. If she's been like this for a while apparently her supervisor is failing at their job.
 
Used to have a tower lady who made lots of mistakes. She would tell you the wrong thing occasionallly. I would just read back what I knew was the right thing and she would reply with a thank you. She made other mistakes also but now is one of the best we have. Can imagine training for them is about like learning to fly. To bad they can’t just use the student card.
 
I will not divulge names, but years ago (I presume she is retired and the statute of limitations has expired and I can tattle on her), She worked at an approach control nearby and when some poor pilot, ( I will not insult either's parentage), be he/she a weekend warrior or a professional heavy iron driver crossed or confounded her they could expect her wrath to be forthcoming in a nano-second. Temper, temper, temper.

Weird part was that her husband worked the same facility and was one of the nicer and more professional controllers there.

Someone commented on "that time of month" she must have been in that week every day. Not to demean women in any way but I believe that woman needed a serious Redneck adjustment. I'm sure most understand the meaning of that. I'm sure had she left her hubby he would have missed his dog more than he missed her. Redneck thought at work here. :D

NO! My first wife was not a controller.
 
mscard88 said:
FWIW EVERY ATC facility has a lot of training going on. Every facility.
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Thank you! Somewhere along the way someone has gotten the idea that new controllers get sent to a particular facility that specializes in training new controllers after they get hired. New controllers get assigned to facilities that...need more controllers.
 
Hawker800 said:
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My mind immediately went to this incident when I started reading this thread. Several years after that incident, I checked in to PVD approach and the controller's voice sounded remarkably familiar for some reason. A few minutes later she then proceeded to chew out a couple pilots on the freq, and at that moment I immediate figured out she was the controller from that recording.
 
Velocity173 said:
Doubt she’s a student. Your grouchy controllers are like pilots. They’ve gotten so tired of their jobs that they take it out on the person on the other end of the freq. If I got an attitude with a pilot as a student, I would’ve been unplugged and my a$$ would be doing push-ups on the radar room floor, with a big fat red “U” for the day. Of course that’s Marines. You have to be careful how you treat your students in the FAA.

Not sure what her deal is with you turning crosswind either. Absent an “extend upwind” you turn crosswind on your own. Preferably, off the departure end and 300 ft below pattern altitude.
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We got a continue upwind, then maybe a minute later, got a clear to turn crosswind. Then got the When I say I'll call your crosswind, then you can turn. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvgt/KVGT-Jan-26-2018-2030Z.mp3 The exchange starts at about 11:00 We're in cherokee 12N
 
sferguson524 said:
We got a continue upwind, then maybe a minute later, got a clear to turn crosswind. Then got the When I say I'll call your crosswind, then you can turn. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvgt/KVGT-Jan-26-2018-2030Z.mp3 The exchange starts at about 11:00 We're in cherokee 12N
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Listened from 10:00 to 15:00 and I didn't think she sounded that bent. Maybe she forgot previous instructions for you, but she didn't sound as upset as you're making it out to be IMO. Or did I miss something else?
 
sferguson524 said:
We got a continue upwind, then maybe a minute later, got a clear to turn crosswind. Then got the When I say I'll call your crosswind, then you can turn. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvgt/KVGT-Jan-26-2018-2030Z.mp3 The exchange starts at about 11:00 We're in cherokee 12N
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she says 'continue up wind, you will be following the Skycatcher
you say 'continue up wind and follow the Skycatcher
she says 'crosswind approved, follow the Skycatcher(i'm guessing you had started the crosswind turn)
she says 'I said I'll call your crosswind(she didn't) next time wait for my call

What I'm seeing is she says continue upwind(in her mind meaning you will until she says turn,) and lets you know the reason why. You see it as continue upwind long enough to follow the Skycatcher before turning crosswind which I think you did. She sees that and then says crosswind approved. Then she gives you the lecture about 'I said I'd call your crosswind(a lie, not deliberate though) Had you started the turn? I ain't saying you shouldn't have, your last read back was 'continue up wind and follow the Skycatcher.' Not 'continue up wind and wait for her crosswind call to follow it.
 
I didn’t hear anything that I would describe as her being upset, honked off or anything of that nature. All pretty benign in my book.
 
sferguson524 said:
We got a continue upwind, then maybe a minute later, got a clear to turn crosswind. Then got the When I say I'll call your crosswind, then you can turn. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kvgt/KVGT-Jan-26-2018-2030Z.mp3 The exchange starts at about 11:00 We're in cherokee 12N
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Doesn’t sound like she got all that bent out of shape. Heard a lot worse.

Don’t really care for her phraseology though. “Continue” is generally used when you want someone to continue their pattern and to report or expect a clearance at a certain point. “Extend upwind” or “extend departure leg” with a “I’ll call your crosswind” is much mo better.

Personally, I wouldn’t have even issued the “traffic to follow” either unless I wanted you to follow them now
 
luvflyin said:
she says 'continue up wind, you will be following the Skycatcher
you say 'continue up wind and follow the Skycatcher
she says 'crosswind approved, follow the Skycatcher(i'm guessing you had started the crosswind turn)
she says 'I said I'll call your crosswind(she didn't) next time wait for my call

What I'm seeing is she says continue upwind(in her mind meaning you will until she says turn,) and lets you know the reason why. You see it as continue upwind long enough to follow the Skycatcher before turning crosswind which I think you did. She sees that and then says crosswind approved. Then she gives you the lecture about 'I said I'd call your crosswind(a lie, not deliberate though) Had you started the turn? I ain't saying you shouldn't have, your last read back was 'continue up wind and follow the Skycatcher.' Not 'continue up wind and wait for her crosswind call to follow it.
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Yes, we made the turn after she told us crosswind was approved. I definitely abdicated PIC to the CFI in the right seat, since he told me to turn
 
Your read back was incorrect and she was clarifying to make sure you understood, and to make sure her intentions were well documented. She did not clear you to follow the skycatcher, she was pointing out traffic. Correct response would have been "Continue upwind, traffic in sight/looking for traffic, 12N". Your CFI should have corrected your read back, on air, almost immediately.
 
SkyHog said:
Would it be appropriate to say to her "tower, I have a number for you to call, advise ready to copy," and make her call you so that you can counsel her on her issues?
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I have asked for their number and done exactly that before. Are controllers people???? Everyone has bad days and some times those bad days are stressful enough for a professional to cross a line. Sometimes it’s a pilot and sometimes it’s a controller. If it affects safety of flight you can bet your ass someone gets a phone call even if it’s the controller.
 
gasfiltered said:
Your read back was incorrect and she was clarifying to make sure you understood, and to make sure her intentions were well documented. She did not clear you to follow the skycatcher, she was pointing out traffic. Correct response would have been "Continue upwind, traffic in sight/looking for traffic, 12N". Your CFI should have corrected your read back, on air, almost immediately.
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She’s responsible for that read back being correct. Since her phraseology was so poor, there’s not much to correct.
 
Velocity173 said:
She’s responsible for that read back being correct. Since her phraseology was so poor, there’s not much to correct.
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I don't disagree that her phraseology was terrible, but "traffic to follow is a..." or "number n following x plane" is very common and should not be misconstrued as a follow instruction. She did correct it when she repeated "I'll call your crosswind". CFI was lollygagging and dropped the ball. I also agree with everyone else that I didn't find the controller to sound particularly upset.
 
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