On Request???

Vance Breese

Vance Breese

Cleared for Takeoff
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Oct 10, 2014
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Santa Maria, CA
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Vance Breese
Today at SMO I said to the tower; “Experimental Gyroplane 509QB, holding short of runway 21, ready for departure, request straight out with a slight left over the golf coarse for noise abatement.”
The tower replied; “on request.”
I could not find; “on request” in the pilot/controller glossary in the AIM and the tower did not tell me what it meant.
I would be grateful to know what they were trying to communicate.
Thank you.
 
Vance Breese said:
Today at SMO I said to the tower; “Experimental Gyroplane 509QB, holding short of runway 21, ready for departure, request straight out with a slight left over the golf coarse for noise abatement.”
The tower replied; “on request.”
I could not find; “on request” in the pilot/controller glossary in the AIM and the tower did not tell me what it meant.
I would be grateful to know what they were trying to communicate.
Thank you.
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It means they've received your request and will try to accommodate it but can't give you a yes or no yet. Generally they'll follow up with you shortly either permitting or denying your request.

Often times this means the controller needs to check with another controller or the situation is variable and they don't know if your request will work out quite yet.
 
Means they heard your request, but haven't approved it...yet.
 
Vance Breese said:
Today at SMO I said to the tower; “Experimental Gyroplane 509QB, holding short of runway 21, ready for departure, request straight out with a slight left over the golf coarse for noise abatement.”
The tower replied; “on request.”
I could not find; “on request” in the pilot/controller glossary in the AIM and the tower did not tell me what it meant.
I would be grateful to know what they were trying to communicate.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding / interpretation that it's shorthand for saying "we have noted your special request for something other than a standard departure and have noted it. when we clear you for your takeoff it will be for the procedure you requested but we haven't approved that yet"

They should state final approval when final takeoff clearance is given. "Cleared for take-off, left turn approved"
 
Other commonly used phrase is "I have your request", means the same thing.
 
Better phraseology would have been "N509QB hold short runway 21. Stand by." Or give the reason why the clearance couldn't be issued after reiterating hold short instructions.

"I have your request" works just as well though.
 
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It's pretty common with IFR clearances. It just means that they are waiting for your clearance from another controlling agency. Once they have it they will get it to you. Basically you just wait until they do.

I don't recall ever getting it VFR, but it makes sense in this case as it sounds like the the controller didn't have the authority to approve your request.
 
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Reedster said:
It's pretty common with IFR clearances. It just means that they are waiting for the clearance from another controlling agency. Once they have it they will get it to you. Basically you just wait until they do.
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Sure, you wanna launch IFR from a field with a non-approach control tower. The local controller must first get a release from approach or center.

I don't recall ever getting it VFR, but it makes sense in this case as it sounds like the the controller didn't have the authority to approve your request.
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I'd say it doesn't make sense in this case because he's talking to the local controller, the position that issues takeoff clearances.
 
roncachamp said:
Sure, you wanna launch IFR from a field with a non-approach control tower. The local controller must first get a release from approach or center.



I'd say it doesn't make sense in this case because he's talking to the local controller, the position that issues takeoff clearances.
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I thought that, however maybe the controller was new, and had to ask his supervisor as he wasn't sure. Or the local police/fire/construction were doing something and he had to make sure that it was ok.

I can see a controller saying that if they weren't able to issue the clearance for some abnormal reason. Not necessarily due to another FAA agency.
 
I've had it used for VFR a few times now when requesting touch and goes with the tower on a busy day when inbound to the airport. Tower will say:

"Touch and goes on request, enter a right downwind and report midfield"

Then on second contact they'll either approve, which they usually do, or say "This will need to be a full stop" if more traffic keeps coming in and it's too busy.
 
Reedster said:
I thought that, however maybe the controller was new, and had to ask his supervisor as he wasn't sure. Or the local police/fire/construction were doing something and he had to make sure that it was ok.

I can see a controller saying that if they weren't able to issue the clearance for some abnormal reason. Not necessarily due to another FAA agency.
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Not me. I think when you're talking to the controller that's responsible for issuing whatever it is that you're requesting and he can't do it he should state the reason; "Hold short, vehicles on runway."
 
roncachamp said:
Sure, you wanna launch IFR from a field with a non-approach control tower. The local controller must first get a release from approach or center.



I'd say it doesn't make sense in this case because he's talking to the local controller, the position that issues takeoff clearances.
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Yup....

Just like that here in Jackson Wy....

And I have NEVER heard that phrase used for VFR flights..:no:
 
Reedster said:
I don't recall ever getting it VFR, but it makes sense in this case as it sounds like the the controller didn't have the authority to approve your request.
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I get it just about every time I request flight following from Ground. They have to get the squawk code from Approach. They generally have it by the time I finish taxiing.
 
MAKG1 said:
I get it just about every time I request flight following from Ground. They have to get the squawk code from Approach. They generally have it by the time I finish taxiing.
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I wonder if it is because 1) there is a large amount of traffic in the central valley; 2)there really isn't a hub for that traffic other than FAT or SAC. Therefore there are many sectors in close proximity but separate from one another which require time to coordinate.
 
Vance Breese said:
Today at SMO I said to the tower; “Experimental Gyroplane 509QB, holding short of runway 21, ready for departure, request straight out with a slight left over the golf coarse for noise abatement.”
The tower replied; “on request.”
I could not find; “on request” in the pilot/controller glossary in the AIM and the tower did not tell me what it meant.
I would be grateful to know what they were trying to communicate.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
That's a little weird. I get "on request" replies all the time but you called up holding short of the runway requesting a departure. The controller should have said, "hold short runway XX 509QB" or "509QB cleared for takeoff runway XX"
 
Reedster said:
I thought that, however maybe the controller was new, and had to ask his supervisor as he wasn't sure. Or the local police/fire/construction were doing something and he had to make sure that it was ok.

I can see a controller saying that if they weren't able to issue the clearance for some abnormal reason. Not necessarily due to another FAA agency.
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No. As Steve says, the phrase means that the request for clearance has been sent to Center, where it will be put in the mixmaster with other clearance requests and enroute traffic and the result will be sent back to the tower as a clearance. for your flight.

Bob Gardner
 
Usually the context is that the controller you asked isn't the one who has to approve what you asked for, though I suspect out of habit some might use that to acknowledge any request they can't fulfill immediately.
 
The phrase "on request" is not defined so it means whatever the controller wanted it to mean.

In this context it sounds like it meant that the controller received the request but wasn't ready to immediately approve or deny it.
 
Thank you all, I feel confused on a higher level now.
I asked ATC what it meant and did not receive an answer, just; “runway 21cleare for takeoff straight out approved.”
I feel like a country bumpkin when I pierce the bowels of the Los Angles airspace.
I am always learning something new.
It seems every airport has its own unique protocol.
I suspect SMOs proximity to LAX affects their procedures.
As I climbed out toward the shore line over the golf course there was a very large airplane off to my left.
Where I fly I know most of the controllers and am familiar with the local reporting points and protocol so I seldom have to ask for clarification.
I do not find consistency at many of the more distant airports I have flown to and this is not the first time the Pilot/Controller Glossary has let me down.
I like to listen to ATC from 20 miles out or as soon as I start so I can identify local quirks.
I am grateful for the help I find on the Pilots of America message board.
 
Vance Breese said:
Thank you all, I feel confused on a higher level now.
I asked ATC what it meant and did not receive an answer, just; “runway 21cleare for takeoff straight out approved.”
I feel like a country bumpkin when I pierce the bowels of the Los Angles airspace.
I am always learning something new.
It seems every airport has its own unique protocol.
I suspect SMOs proximity to LAX affects their procedures.
As I climbed out toward the shore line over the golf course there was a very large airplane off to my left.
Where I fly I know most of the controllers and am familiar with the local reporting points and protocol so I seldom have to ask for clarification.
I do not find consistency at many of the more distant airports I have flown to and this is not the first time the Pilot/Controller Glossary has let me down.
I like to listen to ATC from 20 miles out or as soon as I start so I can identify local quirks.
I am grateful for the help I find on the Pilots of America message board.
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He was holding you for traffic, but didn't want to bother saying too much. Think this was right after the Redstripe Phenom came in? Either way, you did fine.

Flying in the Basin or at untowered airports is a mix of being AIM-like precise and "mind the large jets, now".
 
I've never heard of 'on request' in the context of VFR ops, but I'm sure it can happen.

One thing I've wondered about is that I've occasionally heard IFR pilots call ATC and say words to the effect of 'November 1234, please put my clearance on request'.

Is this call any different from calling clearance delivery or ground and saying 'November 1234, IFR to Dogpatch with Alpha' ?
 
Vance Breese said:
Today at SMO I said to the tower; “Experimental Gyroplane 509QB, holding short of runway 21, ready for departure, request straight out with a slight left over the golf coarse for noise abatement.”
The tower replied; “on request.”
I could not find; “on request” in the pilot/controller glossary in the AIM and the tower did not tell me what it meant.
I would be grateful to know what they were trying to communicate.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Hi Vance, in case it helps shed some light on this, the remarks section in the AF/D for KSMO seems to say that what you were requesting is standard procedure:

VFR departures Rwy 21 turn left 10° at end of rwy then turn right 225° to over-fly golf course W of arpt. No crosswind turn until reaching Lincoln Blvd (1 mile W) and out 800 ft MSL. If departure pattern, no turn before reaching shoreline.
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VFR departures Rwy 21 turn left 10° at end of rwy then turn right 225° to over-fly golf course W of arpt.
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Am I the only one who finds this ambiguous?
 
Lindberg said:
Am I the only one who finds this ambiguous?
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It's very poorly written. Runway azimuth is 212°, so following it to the letter would have you on a 067° after completing the right turn. Methinks the intent is to have aircraft heading 225°.
 
I've been based out of SMO for the past 6 years. I've never heard them say "on request" in response to a VFR take-off request...until this past Saturday.

I had taxied up to the runway behind another airplane. I heard that airplane be cleared for take-off, and as soon as they started taxiing onto the runway, I made my call. The tower replied, "I have your request." (not exactly the same as the OP, but similar)

Then as soon as the other plane lifted off, I was cleared for take-off. I think it might be a new procedure.
 
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roncachamp said:
It's very poorly written. Runway azimuth is 212°, so following it to the letter would have you on a 067° after completing the right turn. Methinks the intent is to have aircraft heading 225°.
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A 225 heading makes a little more sense than flying a 225° button hook to the right! :goofy:
 
bobmrg said:
No. As Steve says, the phrase means that the request for clearance has been sent to Center, where it will be put in the mixmaster with other clearance requests and enroute traffic and the result will be sent back to the tower as a clearance. for your flight.

Bob Gardner
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And while I agree, the OP said it was used in a VFR situation. And also mentioned above that it was used during a request for touch and goes.

I have never heard it VFR. But ATC often uses non-standard phraseology.

All I was offering was a couple of suggestions on where a controller might use it.

So based on your definition why would these controllers use this term?
 
jhinman said:
I've been based out of SMO for the past 6 years. I've never heard them say "on request" in response to a VFR take-off request...until this past Saturday.

I had taxied up to the runway behind another airplane. I heard that airplane be cleared for take-off, and as soon as they started taxiing onto the runway, I made my call. The tower replied, "on request."

Then as soon as the other plane lifted off, I was cleared for take-off. I think it must be a new procedure. It was not a new voice; I recognized the voice as one of the veterans that has been working there forever.
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There is really only three things a controller can say when you call them up ready for departure. Either hold short, line up and wait, or cleared for take off. The controller shouldn't really say on request when you told him you're ready for departure
 
I don't know, the instructions seem logical to me. Left 10 takes you to the golf course. The golf course is rectangular and oriented on a 225 line. Seems like the departures a designed to keep aircraft noise over the old dudes putting and away from the residential areas. Don't think it'll help much though. The entire airport is encroached upon from all directions.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don't know, the instructions seem logical to me. Left 10 takes you to the golf course. The golf course is rectangular and oriented on a 225 line. Seems like the departures a designed to keep aircraft noise over the old dudes putting and away from the residential areas. Don't think it'll help much though. The entire airport is encroached upon from all directions.
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If you turn left 10° and then turn right 225° you've turned a net 215° to the right.
 
roncachamp said:
If you turn left 10° and then turn right 225° you've turned a net 215° to the right.
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Oh I see what you're saying. The procedure specifies a 225 degree turn and not a heading. Yeah, fire the guy who wrote it. A mandatory zoom climb would solve their noise abatement problems.
 
jordane93 said:
There is really only three things a controller can say when you call them up ready for departure. Either hold short, line up and wait, or cleared for take off. The controller shouldn't really say on request when you told him you're ready for departure
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The most popular phrases here are..

Hold short, waiting center release....

Hold short, landing traffic......

Cancel take off clearance....

Cleared for take off....
 
It also specifies a turn in degrees and a turn to a heading using the same language. You have to be a mind reader or just assume.
 
I hear it all the time VFR at CRQ. In this case what you were requesting is the standard noise abatement procedure, and as such they dont really expect you to ask for it, they just expect you to do it. It's also shown on a little diagram right next to the hold short lines, but I didn't notice that sign until I'd already been to SMO a couple times. If you simply ask for straight out, they expect you to do the dogleg over the golf course and go straight out from there. The other way I've heard it requested is "North at the coast" or for me since I have to climb to 3500 to head south through the LAX SFRA the call is "Right climbing 270 at the coast for Special Flight Rules"

From the context given, and what I've seen many times at Palomar what I get is this. You've made a request, and the controller has gotten it. The clearance for that request generally comes with the clearance for takeoff. However they currently cant clear you for take off because someone is on final, still on the runway, etc. "On Request" basically means "I got it and you'll get the clearance along with your takeoff clearance". It's not quite the same as saying "stand by" which really means something more like "I'm busy at the moment, I'll call you back when I'm ready to take your request"

There are a number of airports that I've found that have their own unique procedures for departure, and they seem to use this phrase more than others. Palomar has the "Alpha North" and "Alpha South" departures, which simply mean climb runway heading to the coast then turn north or south. SMO has that funky dogleg to get over the golf course, then straight to the coast before turning. Both are considered standard procedures, but obviously only for those airports. They cant clear you for an Alpha North out of Palomar until they can clear you to takeoff however, so if someone is on short final you'll get "on request" then "alpha north approved, cleared for takeoff runway 24" when that plane is clear.

Clear as mud?
 
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