Older Avionics Savings?

Grum.Man

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Grum.Man
My Venture desperately needs a panel upgrade but I also can't bring my self to spend 35+K to do so. The truth is though that with the current rate of new panel offerings, some of the older yet still modern options are dirt cheap. Examples are the G500 and G3X/GDU, while still perfectly capable and not really lacking anything to the newer designs are still older tech. So I am curious how much of a discount you would have to see over the latest offerings to make you consider going with an older product or would you at all? I am also open to other manufacturers just can't remember all the product names. I actually prefer buttons and knobs over touch screens so that would be another benefit.

The only place I wouldn't skimp is on a GPS. Those have greatly increased capabilities with almost every new generation so at least a GTN would be installed. Also keep in mind we are talking Experimental so installation cost is mute as I work for my self for free.
 
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Well, people have already begun ripping out GTN650's in place of GTN650xi's, which is just absurd to me. So you can get a GTN650 for a pretty good deal at this point, which is essentially the same GPS.

Deals are out there, it's just a matter of being patient and navigating scams.
 
Well, people have already begun ripping out GTN650's in place of GTN650xi's, which is just absurd to me. So you can get a GTN650 for a pretty good deal at this point, which is essentially the same GPS.

Deals are out there, it's just a matter of being patient and navigating scams.

Yea I've seen some GTN750's for 11k with trays and connectors. A friend picked up two GDU's for under 1k each. I would probably just buy a new GFC500 as there aren't many used and it's just a darn good autopilot. I would probably either keep my old KX165 and GS as a backup or purchase a newer but still used Garmin Nav/Com with CDI. Probably sell my GTX-345 and use the built in transponder on the GTN. Use the built in audiopanel in the GTN as well.

With careful shopping I am thinking I could do the full upgrade for 15-20k after selling my 345.

Edit: Actually I would probably just purchase a used GNC225 as it has a built in CDI which would save money and panel space. If I went with dual GDU or G3X units I would just keep my older electric gyro and airspeed instruments instead of buying a G5.
 
Yea I've seen some GTN750's for 11k with trays and connectors. A friend picked up two GDU's for under 1k each. I would probably just buy a new GFC500 as there aren't many used and it's just a darn good autopilot. I would probably either keep my old KX165 and GS as a backup or purchase a newer but still used Garmin Nav/Com with CDI. Probably sell my GTX-345 and use the built in transponder on the GTN. Use the built in audiopanel in the GTN as well.

With careful shopping I am thinking I could do the full upgrade for 15-20k after selling my 345.

Edit: Actually I would probably just purchase a used GNC225 as it has a built in CDI which would save money and panel space. If I went with dual GDU or G3X units I would just keep my older electric gyro and airspeed instruments instead of buying a G5.
What would provide adsb out?
 
Apparently I’m out of touch here. I’m not aware of the gtn having that capability without an add on device. I thought you needed a gdl-88 or some such. Same goes for some of the other features you mentioned. I thought they were actually provided by remote gadgets, not internal to the gtn.
 
Apparently I’m out of touch here. I’m not aware of the gtn having that capability without an add on device. I thought you needed a gdl-88 or some such.
Well yea you do but it would be better integrated than my GTX345 and save panel space.
 
Well yea you do but it would be better integrated than my GTX345 and save panel space.
That ain’t gonna be cheap by the time you’re done. The 345 would be a good way to do adsb with the gtn. Those remote units aren’t cheap.
 
That ain’t gonna be cheap by the time you’re done. The 345 would be a good way to do adsb with the gtn. Those remote units aren’t cheap.
They are about the same price as what I could sell my GTX for or even a little less.
 
I'd put in the newest thing you can afford and then some. The installation costs often match what you pay for the boxes, and technology goes out of date so darned quickly.
 
I'd put in the newest thing you can afford and then some. The installation costs often match what you pay for the boxes, and technology goes out of date so darned quickly.

Yes, but @Grum.Man 's point is that its an experimental (his Venture), he does the install himself and for very strange reasons charges himself $0.00 per hour for his labor. ;)

Apparently I’m out of touch here. I’m not aware of the gtn having that capability without an add on device. I thought you needed a gdl-88 or some such. Same goes for some of the other features you mentioned. I thought they were actually provided by remote gadgets, not internal to the gtn.

Well yea you do but it would be better integrated than my GTX345 and save panel space.

I believe you folks are talking about the GTX345R remote transponder box that is controlled by the GTN 750 screen?
Ordinarily I would prefer to avoid the dependency on one screen for so many functions, but in the Venture I can understand the panel space issue you raise and this would be an elegant solution along with the add on remote audio panel option (GMA 35) that is also controlled by the GTN 750 screen (and I believe has some voice command capability to switch Comm radios, etc - @flyingcheesehead is the expert here on that).
 
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I'd put in the newest thing you can afford and then some. The installation costs often match what you pay for the boxes, and technology goes out of date so darned quickly.
My labor is free. Counterpoint to that is that I could buy something tomorrow and by July it could be out of date so why not buy something a generation behind for 1/4 of the price of something new?
 
Yes, but @Grum.Man 's point is that its an experimental (his Venture) and he does the install himself and for very strange reasons charges himself $0.00 per hour for his labor. ;)





I believe you folks are talking about the GTX345R remote transponder box that is controlled by the GTN 750 screen?
Ordinarily I would prefer to avoid the dependency on one screen for so many functions, but in the Venture I can understand the panel space issue you raise and this would be an elegant solution along with the add on remote audio panel option (GMA 35) that is also controlled by the GTN 750 screen (and I believe has some voice command capability to switch Comm radios, etc - @flyingcheesehead is the expert on that).

The Venture has a pretty large panel so space isn't that much of a concern, I do like a cleaner look though. I suppose for the small cost difference I would just stick with my current 345. With today's Ipad technology I feel confident I could make my way to a safe landing at an airport should the whole panel fail as long as I had a backup artificial horizon. It may not be pretty but I could work my way there and down in a worst case scenario.
 
The Venture has a pretty large panel so space isn't that much of a concern, I do like a cleaner look though. I suppose for the small cost difference I would just stick with my current 345. With today's Ipad technology I feel confident I could make my way to a safe landing at an airport should the whole panel fail as long as I had a backup artificial horizon. It may not be pretty but I could work my way there and down in a worst case scenario.

If it was me, and panel space was not an issue, I would be sticking with the existing GTX 345 you already have.

I spent quite a few hours in a G1000 equipped 182 a couple of years ago and absolutely hated the remote transponder. It's a lot simpler to just reach over and change the code on a dedicated transponder box than it is to mess with your PDF or GPS navigator screen to bring up the transponder function, make the change and then go back to where you were with the navigation. To me that was just distracting, dis-functional tech.

But the integrated audio panel control with voice command...now that would be cool!
 
Sure, why not, if labor is not in the equation. The incremental cost of the newer equipment vs older is a larger percentage when you take labor cost out, so it makes the increased capability of the newer equipment bring lesser returns.
 
If it was me, and panel space was not an issue, I would be sticking with the existing GTX 345 you already have.

I spent quite a few hours in a G1000 equipped 182 a couple of years ago and absolutely hated the remote transponder. It's a lot simpler to just reach over and change the code on a dedicated transponder box than it is to mess with your PDF or GPS navigator screen to bring up the transponder function, make the change and then go back to where you were with the navigation. To me that was just distracting, dis-functional tech.

But the integrated audio panel control with voice command...now that would be cool!
This whole thought process was occurring yesterday as I was flying with a friend in his TBM700. It has an older Garmin G600 and dual GTN750's with the integrated intercom. Simply amazing sound quality and ease of use. I was messing with the G600 and found it more than capable for what I would need.
 
Sure, why not, if labor is not in the equation. The incremental cost of the newer equipment vs older is a larger percentage when you take labor cost out, so it makes the increased capability of the newer equipment bring lesser returns.

I'm not in tune with all the latest on MFD but I don't think the new ones are any more capable. They have better screens, maybe more user friendly interfaces, but they do the same thing.
 
I'm not in tune with all the latest on MFD but I don't think the new ones are any more capable. They have better screens, maybe more user friendly interfaces, but they do the same thing.

I suppose the same argument can be made across the full spectrum of navigators. Those of us still using Garmin GNS boxes (430/530) in our planes continue to have amazingly capable GPS navigators (compared to say 1995 :p ) despite the lack of bells and whistles the newer GTN boxes offer.

I've been toying with the idea of replacing the GNS in my Aztec with a GTN (as part of the center stack ADS-B upgrade), but the marginal improvement in true IFR capability isn't anywhere near enough to justify the cost.
 
Also, depending on how slowly you work, you can decide on older Garmin 430 or 530 WAAS or newer Avidyne 440 or 540 later. Just pick the size GPS NAV COM you’d like and install the appropriate sized tray. Either GPS unit will slide right in to the same tray. You get the knobs that you said you like with both of these units and can make the choice after the wiring is done, waiting for the right unit to show up on the market at the right price.
 
I suppose the same argument can be made across the full spectrum of navigators. Those of us still using Garmin GNS boxes (430/530) in our planes continue to have amazingly capable GPS navigators (compared to say 1995 :p ) despite the lack of bells and whistles the newer GTN boxes offer.

I've been toying with the idea of replacing the GNS in my Aztec with a GTN (as part of the center stack ADS-B upgrade), but the marginal improvement in true IFR capability isn't anywhere near enough to justify the cost.
Absolutely not, however I will be upgrading from a KLN90B soo.... haha For the price difference in a 530W and a GTN I just assume spend the money on the gtn.
 
I'm not in tune with all the latest on MFD but I don't think the new ones are any more capable. They have better screens, maybe more user friendly interfaces, but they do the same thing.

Exactly. That’s why there’s even less return on investment when labor is taken out of the equation (huge percent cost delta vs what you get).
 
If it was me, and panel space was not an issue, I would be sticking with the existing GTX 345 you already have.

I spent quite a few hours in a G1000 equipped 182 a couple of years ago and absolutely hated the remote transponder. It's a lot simpler to just reach over and change the code on a dedicated transponder box than it is to mess with your PDF or GPS navigator screen to bring up the transponder function, make the change and then go back to where you were with the navigation. To me that was just distracting, dis-functional tech.

But the integrated audio panel control with voice command...now that would be cool!
I agree with keeping the GTX 345. It adds redundancy and functionality that a remote device won't, and you already have it.
 
I'm interested in a GTN650xi but honestly, I'd rather just trade in my 650 than go through BS hassle of trying to sell it. So mine will end up back in a dealer's hand.

I do regret selling the extra GTN install kit I had. These new, by themselves are $1200.
 
we are talking Experimental
My info is a bit dated but I would still think since E/AB savings could be substantial depending on how high you want to upgrade. Even on TC'd aircraft I would get some great deals going the used market. I mostly went through salvage companies then would have the radio function checked and a new harness made by a shop for <$250. Or if looking for a specific model would contact the larger shops in T-a-P, etc., and look for a used deal. Ebay, Barnstormer, etc. were okay but best deals were through salvage.
 
If I was where you are, I’d:

1. Keep the 345 - good box;
2. Replace the KLN90 with an Avidyne 440 or 540 - exceptional capability and you can connect to an iPad and effectively have a whole ‘nother screen
3. Dynon Skyview HDX

Or, all Garmin, because Garmin.
 
still used Garmin Nav/Com with CDI. Probably sell my GTX-345 and use the built in transponder on the GTN. Use the built in audiopanel in the GTN as well.

None of the GTN line have built-in transponders or audio panels, those are separate boxes that can be remote controlled. The GA35 audio panel is $2600 new and it bolts to the top of the GTN 750, and controlled through the 750 for example. Remote transponders are typically mounted away from the cockpit and remote controlled through GTN.
 
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