OLD IFR GPS ?? I think it may be worth it..

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Indiana_Pilot, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Now I need to decide where I want everything to go.. I was going to put the 300XL and KI-202 on top and then KX155 and KI-209 on bottom.. it's bugging me seeing the glideslope capable CDI On bottom with the lateral only guidance of the KI-202 on top.. but I do plan to use the 300XL as my primary and it makes sense to have that as COM 1 and on top.. is that what you guys would do?

    Before pic attached [​IMG]


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  2. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Not quite yet.

    But when Garmin finally does exhaust its remaining inventory of screens I expect the price of a 430 is going to drop well below where they trade today.

    Unless another company steps in and figures there's a business to be had from engineering a replacement to support the large installed base of 430s.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  3. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I would do it the way you really want it, 300XL below the KX155 and keep the GS on top.
     
  4. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Option C....go with an iPad and dual band SkyRadar box with synthetic vision. You'll get all the ADS-B weather, traffic, and stuff for much less....and have GPS WAAS. You can follow yourself geolocate on approaches...yada, yada, for much less.
     
  5. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's not quite true. A WAAS navigator can be approved for sole means. Your KLN90 has to be backed up with other instruments and alternates that don't use the GPS. Of course, if you choose not to follow the rules, it probably doesn't mean much.
     
  6. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I agree. KX155 w/ the glideslope as #1, 300XL on the bottom. Other advantage to this is less rewiring on the audio panel; you can take the existing audio panel wires from the MX12 and pin them into the 300XL, rather than having to rewire both Com1 and Com2. Remember, the more wiring you disturb the more likely you're going to have problems.
     
  7. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wonder if that rule is really justifiable. Is there a significant reliability issue relative to newer units?
     
  8. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    With the old style RAIM, GPS alone is just not reliable enough. It's got little to do with "hardware reliability."
     
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  9. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I have thought about that too.. I may just do that.. I like my old KX155.. it's been a great radio.
     
  10. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I have the connectors but I cannot for the life of me find the pins that I can crimp for the J1 and J2 connectors..
    Does anyone know where I can get the pins or a connector kit (no tray) for the Garmin GNC300XL?
     
  11. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Mouser.com. You'll need to order by the mil spec from the install manual. The standard density pins you can get from eBay.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  12. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    They're standard and high-density DSUB pins and sockets. Grom a quick look at the install manual, looks like you need Standard Density Sockets, Standard Density Pins and High-Density pins. I ordered mine from SteinAir, along with the tefzel wire. I bought the crimper from Amazon (though Steinair sells those too). I used 20AWG wire, but note that the high density pins only work with 22AWG and smaller, so I'd use 22AWG all around.

    Contacts:
    http://www.steinair.com/product-category/connectors/d-sub/contacts/

    Wire:
    http://www.steinair.com/product-category/wire-coax/aircraft-wire/?filter_color=white

    Crimper:
    http://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/
    or
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WRJATU/ref=od_aui_detailpages01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Also, I'd HIGHLY recommend using RG400 for the GPS antenna, that way if you ever upgrade you'll have the right cable in place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  13. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Thanks! Already have the GPS antenna mounted the and the rg400 on the way.. that's the cable I used for my ADS-B install.. hoping it all comes together soon![​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  14. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    don't think that's a WAAS antenna. :D
     
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  15. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Nope lol... I do have a WAAS antenna near the rear for my Freeflight ADS-B though... I'm a poor man :(


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  16. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Good news for you fella!!!!.....the RG400 coax is the good stuff that's required when you do decide to upgrade to a WAAS radio. :D
     
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  17. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I love how Narcos are ventillated, its like they wanted crap to fall right into the radios.
     
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  18. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    [​IMG]
    Making some progress!


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  19. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    [​IMG]
    It’s alive! Still waiting on my annunciator... and Jesus the databases are expensive!


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  20. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    [​IMG]

    Any idea what this MK-12 NAV/COM and VOA-8 Indicator is worth?




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  21. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    $500-650....
     
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  22. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Thanks... I have searched all over and can’t find any for sale to compare


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  23. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I installed my annunciator today and all works well except for the needle does not show a deviation.. I wired per the MD41-444 manual.. I’m going to check my pin outs tomorrow but I am pretty sure I have it wired correctly.. the to from and Nav flags work.. I’m guessing what drives the left and right is the Left + and Right +. (D Bar) on the schematics ... I’ll start there Any other ideas?


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  24. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Nevermind. Found 1 pin that was one hole over grrr... all is working now and even my old Century 1 autopilot.. seems it tracks a lot better with the GPS than it ever did with a VOR!


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  25. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Awesome work! And while it's not a fancy WAAS GPS, it'll really increase the capabilities of your airplane.

    Do make sure you perform the interference check (where you transmit on various frequencies for 30 seconds). I might have skipped that inititially, and later discovered I had some COM interference problems. A $130 notch filter in the COM antenna line fixed it, but don't skip that check initially :)
     
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  26. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    I’m running though the checklist today to prepare myself for the 337.. I’m just happy it works so far lol.


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  27. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I totally know the feeling. I remember when I first fired mine up, anxious it wasn't going to work but thrilled when it did!
     
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  28. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    The annunciator was actually the most challenging. Had a heck of a time mounting it


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  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That annunciator hole, yikes.
     
  30. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I avoided square annuciators like the plague when looking at my options (and I was successful) for this exact reason. That said, what is the best practice for cutting a square hole in an instrument panel (in place)? Drill starter holes in the corners and dremel?
     
  31. jbDC9

    jbDC9 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yep!
     
  32. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    and finish with a flat file.
     
  33. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    [​IMG]

    Testing and 337 here I come!


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  34. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As I was reading this thread, I was thinking about saving cost by installing myself as well.
    Is that really an option, like other maintenance?
    If so, that would be great!

    Also, any idea what someone would charge to check your work?
     
  35. Indiana_Pilot

    Indiana_Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    You can install yourself if you have an IA that can or will sign off on your work... what they charge can vary wildly.. if you are good friends then a nice steak dinner would suffice!


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  36. Jim Steenson

    Jim Steenson Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a solid GX50 with 8130, very clean functional MD40-65L, data card programmer, and even parts spares etc.. Would like to install in a Cherokee (along with one required push button but no other annunciator) for IFR non-precision approaches, but having trouble getting my avionics shop on board. Has anyone done this that they may be able to share advice, paperwork, etc. so as to make this simple enough to get my shop interested? I saw a post from bradg33 that sounds very similar to what I'm trying to do. Would appreciate any info that folks could share. Thanks, Jim
     
  37. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    I have GX50 as well. After seriously considering updating, I've just decided to keep it as it does everything I want it to. I'll buy another in good shape to keep in the shelf for when the installed unit goes TU.

    The install manual is available on-line. Installation is pretty much a breeze, as there's no comm to deal with. Be sure your unit has display software 3.5, otherwise it's not IFR cert. You'll also need a blind encoder as well as he annunciation for IFR cert, as the GX50 is baro-aided. Not sure what you mean by single button annunciator. For IFR, I believe you'll need a unit with two buttons, one for Nav/GPS, and another for OBS hold, and all the sundry appch's active lights etc. pretty cheap on EBay.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  38. Jim Steenson

    Jim Steenson Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for reply! I plan to use a Mid-Continent MD40-65L CDI, which has the CDI, TO/FROM flag, and 5 annunciator lights built into the face of the CDI. Since it is a CDI dedicated just to the GPS, I understand I wouldn't need a NAV/GPS switch and a separate annunciator unit. That leaves just the OBS-HOLD button. I'm planning to use a trandcal RS-232 encoder. Plan is to put the CDI where my old Narco-121 is, and replace my existing GX55 with the GX50. So it should be a pretty simple installation I think.

    I think since it's all old school stuff, and I already have all of the equipment, (i.e. - it's not gonna make for a big pay check), my avionics guy is not making it a priority - end of summer I'm told. And my IA is nervous about getting into it as well. I'm going take a stab at writing what would be the main body of the 337 by modeling it after a previous avionics install, and take a stab at the AFM supplement as well. Garmin website had some helpful documents. Maybe if I do that, it will make either of them more receptive to sending off the paperwork. I am hopeful that someone who has a very similar installation will see this post and offer up some example paperwork. If I had a clean documentation package that has already been approved by the FAA, I think my IA would go for it. I have done simpler installs with him, but since this is going for IFR approval and it's not his normal routine, I think he's concerned. Hardest piece to find was the data card programmer, but I've got it, and Jepps service tech remoted onto my computer and confirmed it all works. But I might need to find a different shop to work with. Thanks again.
     
  39. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

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    Spend the money then. That's a long time, including the ADS-B transition, to keep a plane without that kind of capability. Also, have you considered the Avidyne stuff? Get a nice touch screen, WAAS unit that some like better than the Garmins and save cash.
     
  40. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Where did you hear this?

    Sky is always falling in aviation, but with the amount of the fleet rocking GNS I doubt they are in much danger.

    The avionics shop the seller used to have the 530 in the plane I was buying replaced messed the screen up, it got fixed no problem.