Oil gurus...

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Snorting his way across the USA
Preface, I sort of know what I'm talking about. Well I know what I'm talking about, but what I am discovering is that engines, and oils, are evolving more rapidly than me.

My little Sentra requires an SN grade 0W-20. That is the current, most highest grade for oil. SN does not stand for 'synthetic.' It supersedes SH or whatever the last highest current grade was.

I am becoming to realize that as manufacturers are pushing engines to the limit, like Ford's Ecoboost engines, tiny superboosted engines that develop a lot of power in a small package, they are increasingly relying on synthetic lubricants to handle the heat and stress.

Back to my little Sentra. It gets 38 mpg average, with a small amount of freeway driving and a large amount of stop and go gridlock. That's pretty good. Our company Ford Fusions, comparable in room and performance but not price only get like 26 with their superboosted 1.5L engines.

What is the best oil to use. Who makes the best synthetic oil, for car use? Nissan specifies an SN which can be had in conventional 'conventional' and synthetic grades. I'm a big proponent of synthetic oil, and run them exclusively in my own vehicles, even my lawn mower. AMS? Mmm, marketing. Pennzoil? Quaker State? Shell?

Motul 300V has been my choice in motorcycles. It's indestructible. Well, you run it in your engine and it's close to being indestructible. I'd gladly run it in my Sentra but it's a bit overkill plus the wrong grade.

Discussion?
 
They may make SN grade dino juice but I was under the impression that 0w20 was synthetic or semi-synthetic only. No?
 
asicer said:
They may make SN grade dino juice but I was under the impression that 0w20 was synthetic or semi-synthetic only. No?
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Well I suspect SN can only be had in a synthetic but I'm not sure.
 
My oil chemist brother (holds several patents) says "Clean oil is better than dirty oil and dirty oil is better than no oil." I know that's no help, but I love his phrase and found an excuse to spill it.
 
Any full synthetic will work as well as another in the majority of consumer products as long as the weight/viscosity meets the appropriate specifications from the manufacturer. I run Mobile 1 in my truck and sports cars simply because I always have. I just put Valvoline in the wife's truck cause it burns oil and it was cheaper. For racing applications, I can see sticking with one brand.

Old Ford 351W in the boat gets Castrol GTX, diesel tractors get Rotel.

The switch to 0W/5W oils is mostly for fuel mileage to my understanding.


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Use the oil that is listed in the car's manual. Doesnt matter much what brand. Well it might. Supposedly the least expensive oil that meets the spec is the best cost value. If you like the brand names, use those for a little more.

You can use synthetics, but you still have to change the oil at the mfg intervals. Dont believe the long interval BS. People have tried extending intervals and and spun a bearing.
 
I disagree about oil change interval to an extent. If the mfg wasn't using full-synthetic in its calculation, it might not be of much value. Most of the point in switching to a synthetic vs conventional oil is the ability to run oil for longer periods of time because synthetic oil doesn't break down nearly as quickly. Plenty of engines will be just fine running 10K miles between changes instead of 5K-7K with conventional oils. The bigger determinations are whether the engine burns oil or drives in a high-dirt environment. Using a good oil filter is equally as important.


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You can get away with 10k with regular oil too. Being synthetic doesnt keep the oil from getting contaminated with metals, carbon, lead and soot. THATS why you have to change it frequently.
 
Like a lot of things that have "gotten better" they've also gotten more complex.

The newer standards aren't always better.

Examples:

Older diesels, the old standard oil contained a lot of zinc. There are folks who think the removal of the zinc is a bad thing for these older diesels. (Along with lubrication the old higher sulfur diesel fuel used to provide, etc.)

So folks debate endlessly what to run on those older diesels.

Same thing with filters. Used to be your just grab any old filter that would cross-reference and fit. Nowadays the filter makers are changing the filter designs to match the higher oil change intervals, and not always for the better. Example: On my ancient Ford tractor the filter part number now cross references to a "newer" filter from one manufacturer that sounds good, new media type, better flow, until you read the fine print. The old paper media filtered to 8 microns. The new filter media? 20 microns. But the new media was designed to allow oil to flow more freely for super extended oil changes being demanded by whatever other engines use this size filter. And then new part number, auto parts stores will happily tell you they're interchangeable. Ridiculous.

So... I have no good answers for you other than try to find *exactly* what the manufacturer recommends, and stick to it. Both oil and filter. Especially if it's still under warranty.

I'm not a fan of the super high mileage change intervals they're saying you can get away with now, but if I had a vehicle that could supposedly do it, I'd honestly box up a sample of used oil and send it off to Blackstone, just like the airplane.

Probably the most information and noise both, if you feel like doing some digging, is at bobistheoilguy.com in the forums. I've dug pretty extensively there on my specific older vehicles and diesels and know what I like and want in them, but haven't done any digging there on newer vehicles. I mainly had to dig because finding the exact ratings the manufacturers call out in older vehicles is getting more difficult.

If you can still find stuff rated exactly what Nissan wanted in the motor, I'd use that unless you found compelling evidence that there's a better formulation for that engine. And watch out for those crappy filters... there's really no standards for those. Personally I'd rather a better filter changed more often than a crappy filter allowing crud to circulate better.
 
If it meets the spec, it meets the spec. I'm partial to Mobil 1 because they led the way into synthetics and the additive package has been proven over time. Pick a brand (and additive package) and stick with it.

Side note: with synthetic the feedstock is known. With semi-synthetic there is a component of the oil which is known to a certain degree but will vary by batch. Make your call.
 
The reason they put a spec in the owners manual is so you can run what ever brand you want that meets that spec. Some may argue that some brands are better than others, but if Walmart's brand meet the spec you are good.
 
Clark1961 said:
Pick a brand (and additive package) and stick with it.
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This doesn't always work when they stop making the old spec. The stuff Cummins recommends and used to sell for the 5.9L engines from Valvoline is no longer available, or only found sporadically at retail, and no longer available as anything but special order through (around here) Rocky Mountain Cummins. Valvoline replaced it with a pure synthetic that's gotten mixed reviews.

That said; with a little research an alternative can be found. But it's a pain in the arse if you're a creature of habit like I am. At least I can still get the Fleetguard filters I like and have a case of them. That should last until the engine blows up.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Well I suspect SN can only be had in a synthetic but I'm not sure.
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Yeah, poking around I don't see any 0W-20 conventional. It's either full synthetic or semi-synthetic. Castrol's semi-synthetic blend is SN, so you're not completely limited to full synthetic.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Old Ford 351W in the boat gets Castrol GTX, diesel tractors get Rotel.

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Not sure how good your tractors run, but I bet they smell delicious.

I generally limit my use of Rotel to Mexican dishes.
 
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yes.. bobistheoilguy is a good reco.

@denverpilot is right about the specs not always being better. I can guarantee you that money comes into play more than your engines well being when the doors close during the meetings. I'm not saying they don't care at all, but they are not in it for fun.

My Toyota has a 10k change interval. I never liked to go over 3k in conventional, and 5k in synthetic.
So I split the difference and do it at 7500. Generally looks darker but never black, so I think it's a good fit.

I use Mobil1 full syn in the Toyota.
I use Supertech full syn from walmart in my rusted out 240,000 mile Silverado that I almost wish would die. But, the engine doesn't smoke or use much oil at all....so maybe it ain't too bad.
I believe a lot of the oils are made at the same manufacturers and re-branded per contract. I have no solid proof of that, but can only imagine it to be somewhat true due to ever being able to keep costs low if they have to have their entire own refinery/packaging operations.
 
OkieFlyer said:
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Not sure how good your tractors run, but I bet they smell delicious.

I generally limit my use of Rotel to Mexican dishes.
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LOL. I thought that but left it alone.

He meant Shell Rotella. And nowadays there's different flavors of Rotella T even. I remember when there was just one and it always smelled weird.
 
I'm a Valvoline guy.

My little oil story, which also applies to another thread on here...

My '08 Ford Escape gas pedal got "sticky" at 30k miles. It got bad enough that became a safety issue. I determined the cause to be the throttle body butterfly getting gummed up by PCV "air". It was easily taken care of with carb/ fuel inj cleaner. It happened again at 60k and 90k miles. At that time I switched to full synthetic. The vehicle now has 180k miles on it, doesn't burn a drop of oil, and the gas pedal hasn't "stuck" since 90k. And it still gets 30 mpg hwy, always has.
 
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I personally use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. It consistently scores at or near the top in independent tests of the various characteristics that matter in tribology, and it has one of the best warranties. It's also reasonably-priced on Amazon if you have Prime.

But really, once you get to the top-shelf synthetic oils, there's very little difference in quality between brands. Even as somewhat of an oil geek, I don't get involved in arguments over Penn Plat versus Mobil1 versus Royal Purple versus Amsoil et al. At that stratum, they're all excellent.

As for Rotella and other diesel-rated lubricants, I routinely used them for the first oil change or two when I bought used cars with questionable maintenance histories, keeping the OCIs very, very short (750 to 1,000 miles) to avoid the risk of stopping up the filters with all the crud that the diesel lubricants tended to dislodge. The same caution held true when I used a synthetic oil for the first time in an older car. I've drained oil that may as well have been tar out of engines after using either Rotella or auto-rated synthetics for the first time.

Rich
 
I'm not a fan of the more recent reduced phosphate ("for gasoline engines") oils in older vehicles with sliding camshafts, but for a recent vehicle, 0W-20 SN is 0W-20 SN. That's the point of having the specs.

The 0W has very little to do with mileage; it's a cold temperature spec. You'll only see it's effect on cold starts in freezing weather.
 
Use the oil grade recommended in your manual or listed on top of the oil filler cap. If your Sentra calls for 0w20, then run it. As for oil brand, I use Mobil 1 extended performance in the cages, as it is fully synthetic yet is priced fairly cheaply. A 5qt jug will set you back $25 at WallyWorld. I ran 5w20 in my F-150 for 17 years and 225k miles, my brother now owns the truck and it's doing great. The new car calls for 5w30, so it will get that grade M1 extended perf.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Old Ford 351W in the boat gets Castrol GTX, diesel tractors get Rotel.
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I use Rotella 5w40 in the 4.3MPI Mercruiser in the boat, but it doesn't have cats. At one time, diesel specific oil, such as Rotella, had additives that could kill the cats in gas engines. Is this still true?
 
Bill Jennings said:
I use Rotella 5w40 in the 4.3MPI Mercruiser in the boat, but it doesn't have cats. At one time, diesel specific oil, such as Rotella, had additives that could kill the cats in gas engines. Is this still true?
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It shouldn't as long as it has an appropriate API rating for the vehicle in question.

Rich
 
Bill Jennings said:
I use Rotella 5w40 in the 4.3MPI Mercruiser in the boat, but it doesn't have cats. At one time, diesel specific oil, such as Rotella, had additives that could kill the cats in gas engines. Is this still true?
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If it has an S rating, it's good. If it doesn't, it's the wrong oil for your car.
 
OkieFlyer said:
original-26674.png


Not sure how good your tractors run, but I bet they smell delicious.

I generally limit my use of Rotel to Mexican dishes.
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Lol, auto-correct got me. I meant Rotella. However, I'm not opposed to running Rotel if it has the same lubrication properties and I get to smell it while doing work on the tractor!
 
Bill Jennings said:
I use Rotella 5w40 in the 4.3MPI Mercruiser in the boat, but it doesn't have cats. At one time, diesel specific oil, such as Rotella, had additives that could kill the cats in gas engines. Is this still true?
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Haven't heard of any oil "killing cats", but I suppose about anything would if your engine burns enough of it. The original spec for my engine was straight SAE 30, but sometimes it's tough to find and 10w-30 or 10w/40 is equivalent. No cats on mine either, so I don't have to worry about it.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, auto-correct got me. I meant Rotella. However, I'm not opposed to running Rotel if it has the same lubrication properties and I get to smell it while doing work on the tractor!
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It'll have lubricating properties in a few million years if subject to the correct conditions. Might not smell so good then...
 
Bill Jennings said:
Use the oil grade recommended in your manual or listed on top of the oil filler cap. If your Sentra calls for 0w20, then run it. As for oil brand, I use Mobil 1 extended performance in the cages, as it is fully synthetic yet is priced fairly cheaply. A 5qt jug will set you back $25 at WallyWorld. I ran 5w20 in my F-150 for 17 years and 225k miles, my brother now owns the truck and it's doing great. The new car calls for 5w30, so it will get that grade M1 extended perf.
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Agreed. My F-150 calls for the 5w20 was well, and I've been running M1 in it since the first oil change. Ford's recommended oil is a syth-blend at those same 5w20 specs.

Always WIX filters for me, no matter the equipment.
 
For the record, I'm a big fan of synthetics, and it's all I run with the exception of big bore, low-stressed truck engines and diesels, where it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I run 10K intervals. With a conventional oil 5K is the limit for me. A full synthetic is better oil at 10K than a conventional oil at 5K, in my opinion. But yes, at some point the oil gets contaminated and the filter can't take out everything.

Really, there are a couple issues for me: 1) Ordinarily I would run a conventional oil until 10K and then switch to synthetic, to allow for full break in. Whether full break in is achieved at 2K or 20K is anyone's guess, it's a round number. 2) I normally go 10K intervals, but the manual calls for 5K. Then again manuals can be both under and over optimistic, ranging from 3K to 7,500K. 3K is pouring money down the drain with no benefit, and 7,500K with conventional oil is asking for a major overhaul before 100,000 miles.

I'll probably go full synthetic at the upcoming change at 5K and stick with 5K intervals, at least for the time being.

The transmission on this little thing is pretty slick. It's a CVT with no scheduled service before 100K except for a fluid inspection around 60K. Mileage is great, over 40 on the flat slab, and I'm overall averaging 38 in a mix of freeway and stop and go city traffic.
 
I have no idea how much difference it makes these days, but when I started running synthetics (which I do in all my vehicles-I don't own an airplane yet) I chose Mobil 1. At the time, AMSOIL and Mobil 1 were the only 2 that had been around for more than a few years and I could buy Mobil 1 in the store. AMSOIL was harder to find (basically not as convenient). Now everybody's had them for a long time so it may not matter. But I still use Mobil 1. I shoot for 7,500 miles in the Mini and follow the manufacturer's 10K recommendation for the Volvo. So far so good. My Maxima was running strong at 165K and the Toyota was still running fine at 240K.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'll probably go full synthetic at the upcoming change at 5K and stick with 5K intervals, at least for the time being.
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Given that your only choice is full-syn or syn-blend, that's a good idea. Blends seem to have most of the disadvantages of dino-juice but only some of the benefits of full synthetic. I think the blend option is mainly to bring the price down. It's not a turbo, is it?
 
asicer said:
Given that your only choice is full-syn or syn-blend, that's a good idea. Blends seem to have most of the disadvantages of dino-juice but only some of the benefits of full synthetic. I think the blend option is mainly to bring the price down. It's not a turbo, is it?
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No, it's just a normally aspirated 1.8L. Synthetic blends never made much sense to me either.
 
jsstevens said:
I have no idea how much difference it makes these days, but when I started running synthetics (which I do in all my vehicles-I don't own an airplane yet) I chose Mobil 1. At the time, AMSOIL and Mobil 1 were the only 2 that had been around for more than a few years and I could buy Mobil 1 in the store. AMSOIL was harder to find (basically not as convenient). Now everybody's had them for a long time so it may not matter. But I still use Mobil 1. I shoot for 7,500 miles in the Mini and follow the manufacturer's 10K recommendation for the Volvo. So far so good. My Maxima was running strong at 165K and the Toyota was still running fine at 240K.
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I do twice-yearly oil changes (April and October) with a theoretical hard maximum OCI of 7,500 miles using Penn Ultra Plat, but usually I come in around 5,800 to 6,300. The manual says 7,500, but twice-yearly works out better for me weather-wise than freezing my ass off in the snow just to stretch the OCI to 7,500.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I do twice-yearly oil changes (April and October) with a theoretical hard maximum OCI of 7,500 miles using Penn Ultra Plat, but usually I come in around 5,800 to 6,300. The manual says 7,500, but twice-yearly works out better for me weather-wise than freezing my ass off in the snow just to stretch the OCI to 7,500.

Rich
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If I had to do oil changes outside where it snowed I'd feel the same way. I do remember removing, rebuilding and replacing the brake master cylinder on my first car (Renault R-10) in the winter of 1977. It's above a piece of the unibody where you can't see it, just feel it. I spent about 30 minutes at a time laying on concrete under the car outside in 35ish degree weather (cold snap in Florida) until my hands went numb. Then going inside and running hot water over them to warm up, then back at it. My time was way cheaper than a shop's time as a new HS graduate. Ahh. Good times... to look back on.

John
 
When I bought the '99 S-10 I put it on a 5,000 mile schedule and stuck to that. 231,000 miles later when I sold it there was still no oil consumption worthy of note and there had never been anything done to the engine. Quality oil is cheap insurance.
 
Norman said:
When I bought the '99 S-10 I put it on a 5,000 mile schedule and stuck to that. 231,000 miles later when I sold it there was still no oil consumption worthy of note and there had never been anything done to the engine. Quality oil is cheap insurance.
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Absolutely. Considering today's oils and OCIs, the difference between cheap **** and top shelf comes out to about twenty or thirty bucks a year. Even for a committed tightwad like yours truly, it's not worth the trade-off.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Absolutely. Considering today's oils and OCIs, the difference between cheap **** and top shelf comes out to about twenty or thirty bucks a year. Even for a committed tightwad like yours truly, it's not worth the trade-off.

Rich
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Truly in agreement here. Group hug all?
 
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