Oil Brand / Type

[Checkout_my_Six]

Independent testing by Aviation Consumer suggested that Aeroshell with his "better brew" is not significantly better than Exxon Elite in corrosion protection, and when you add up the two bills, the cost per quart comes out about the same -- except for having to measure in eye droppers full of Cam Guard each time you add oil. I'll stick with my pre-mixed Exxon Elite, thank you. OTOH, if you don't like semi-synthetics, then Phillips X/C 20-W50 with Cam Guard would be a good and cheaper choice.

cept.....I also have every year I've owned an airplane with a Blackstone oil analysis that proves otherwise.

Exxon or Shell do not have the complete blend that CamGuard provides....

 

[poadeleted20]

cept.....I also have every year I've owned an airplane with a Blackstone oil analysis that proves otherwise.

Exxon or Shell do not have the complete blend that CamGuard provides....

Agreed -- but it appears from Aviation Consumer's testing that whatever CamGuard has that Elite does not is not significant, but what Elite has that Aeroshell does not is significant.

 

[ahkahn]

I use Aeroshell 15W-50. My mechanic said he uses either that or the Philips with Camguard.

 

[Stewartb]

The similarity between Aeroshell 15-50 and Exxon Elite is that they're both semi-synthetic.

If you want to see test results? Look at the lab results on Camguard's website. For reference, 15-50 SS is Aeroshell, 20-50 SS is Exxon Elite, and 20-50 with no suffix is Phillips X/C. W100 is Aeoshell. Look at corrosion, deposit, wear, etc. Pick the one that suits you best. A few years ago I asked Ed Kollin what oil he used in his own 210. He told me Phillips X/C with 5% Camguard. a few years earlier I had the opportunity to speak with Aeroshell's Ben Visser after a presentation. We talked about engine longevity, oil seeps, blowby, breather drool, starter clutches... all the things that concern most airplane owners. Ben told me all the bad things we see in engines are increased when using semi-synthetic oil. If an owner has any of those issues he can almost always see an improvement by switching to non semi synthetic oil. I switched in the engine I was concerned with at the time. A 700 TTSN Continental. Instant improvement. I repeated the same exercise in another airplane I bought a year or two later. Don't believe me? Try it. I bet you won't go back to semi synthetic!

Click on Tech Data in the title bar. All the test results are there. Beware, I can't see the tech data menu from my iPad so you may need to use a reeal computer. http://aslcamguard.com/

 

[poadeleted20]

That web site is the web site of CamGuard's manufacturer. Consider the source.

 

[Stewartb]

Test labs won't mis-report ASTM test results. Your comments show your lack of understanding of product testing. I've been in manufacturing all my adult life and have been involved in using independent lab testing. I'm guessing you haven't? It doesn't work as you suggest. Personally I don't care what any of you chooses to use. Just make your decisions based on information, not somebody's Internet mid-information.

 

[StinkBug]

An independent lab may not outright lie, but it's certainly not uncommon for a company to only show the lab results that shine in their favor. Just because one test shows good things doesn't mean that all the info that's out there. As a general rule I never believe a word of what's written on a manufacturers web site or sales literature unless I can find the same test results available somewhere else, not controlled by that company.

 

[Stewartb]

And when everyone I know who's used Camguard has user reports and oil analysis that corresponds with the manufacturer's claims? I share the information. If you have any shred of information that disagrees? Please share it.

My assertions about semi-synthetic oils are easily tested. Try it yourself. You have nothing to lose and much to gain. And who doesn't want the best result from something as simple as their oil choice?

 

[timwinters]

That web site is the web site of CamGuard's manufacturer. Consider the source.

I've had quite a few conversations with Ed over the years and I've never known him to stretch the truth or spin a yarn.

You OTOH?

Blackstone has made a comment on numerous oil test results similar to "considering your low wear levels we can sure tell you use camguard, keep it up."

 

[Tom-D]

We argue about what oil we PREFER and swear that its the best and we all are positive of our opinions.

Yet any automotive oil will work as well, probably better.

 

[timwinters]

We argue about what oil we PREFER and swear that its the best and we all are positive of our opinions.

Yet any automotive oil will work as well, probably better.

 

[James331]

The major misconception in using aeroshell 15W50 is easy start up.

If you are pre-heating as you should it is not required, after the engine is started and warmed up, it doesn't know if it is in Miami or Fairbanks.

Sometimes preheat isn't a option.

There is a reason folks in cold climates use split weight, as a pilot/AP in the PNW you should know this Tom.

 

[Tom-D]

Sometimes preheat isn't a option.

There is a reason folks in cold climates use split weight, as a pilot/AP in the PNW you should know this Tom.

There is always an option to pre-heat. you just need the right equipment. I know several operators that pre-heat on floats. and several more that pre-heat in the bush with no support of any kind.

 

[Henning]

We argue about what oil we PREFER and swear that its the best and we all are positive of our opinions.

Yet any automotive oil will work as well, probably better.

After a nearly 2 hour technical discussion with Ed, I don't think that is correct. As far as lubricity and physical properties, sure. The difference though is in how they handle the byproducts of combustion that get in them. The additive packages in automotive oil are designed to deal oth the byproduct set of auto gas (if you burn MoGas exclusively, I would agree to switch to an automotive oil). All it takes is one quick whiff 100LL next to automotive pump gas of any grade, and you know the two are quite different in formulation. This is the same issue that makes the synthetic base stock in synthetic oils. The same base stock in Shell and Exxon semi synth is what was used in Mobil AV1, and we know how well that worked out.

 

[Stewartb]

Detergent motor oils are different from ashless dispersent motor oils. Your plane, your choice. Comments like that make me laugh about the Stinson brake thread.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I've had quite a few conversations with Ed over the years and I've never known him to stretch the truth or spin a yarn.

You OTOH?

Blackstone has made a comment on numerous oil test results similar to "considering your low wear levels we can sure tell you use camguard, keep it up."

Ding....Ding.....Ding.....

 

[txflyer]

I'm re-thinking the Elite in my Conti 0-470R after the comments .

So, down here in Central TX where we operate mostly above freezing to 100 degrees+, y'all think I'd be better off with a straight weight and camguard?

Or the X/C 20W-50 + camguard since I've been running a multi viscosity?

 

[BillTIZ]

Not sure if it'll help, but this is the oil we have available at the FBO here in Shawnee.

AeroShell just put the 80W in that red bottle, and it says mineral oil ashless dispersant on the label.

Really had everyone confused for a while. We were to used to the black bottles.

 

[Tom-D]

After a nearly 2 hour technical discussion with Ed, I don't think that is correct. As far as lubricity and physical properties, sure. The difference though is in how they handle the byproducts of combustion that get in them. The additive packages in automotive oil are designed to deal oth the byproduct set of auto gas (if you burn MoGas exclusively, I would agree to switch to an automotive oil). All it takes is one quick whiff 100LL next to automotive pump gas of any grade, and you know the two are quite different in formulation. This is the same issue that makes the synthetic base stock in synthetic oils. The same base stock in Shell and Exxon semi synth is what was used in Mobil AV1, and we know how well that worked out.

I believe that is an over exaggerated boogy man.

I have several aviation engines used in non aviation usages, the burn 100LL and use auto oils no problems on airsled in 20 years. auto gas same same.

 

[Henning]

I'm re-thinking the Elite in my Conti 0-470R after the comments .

So, down here in Central TX where we operate mostly above freezing to 100 degrees+, y'all think I'd be better off with a straight weight and camguard?

Or the X/C 20W-50 + camguard since I've been running a multi viscosity?

I always run a multi vis when it's an option. It doesn't matter what seasonal or latitude change is going on, you have the right oil. Like I said, I use XC & Camguard.

 

[StinkBug]

And when everyone I know who's used Camguard has user reports and oil analysis that corresponds with the manufacturer's claims? I share the information. If you have any shred of information that disagrees? Please share it.

My assertions about semi-synthetic oils are easily tested. Try it yourself. You have nothing to lose and much to gain. And who doesn't want the best result from something as simple as their oil choice?

You're awfully defensive. Almost sounds like you have skin in the game. Re-read what I wrote. I never said I felt anyone wasn't giving real data, I said that I generally don't pay much mind to ANY manufacturers supplied testimonials and/or testing. Just because you think this particular manufacturer is above board and without reproach doesn't change the fact that lies are told every day in every industry, and when lies aren't told sometimes truths are conveniently omitted. Nobody is gonna sell anything by telling you about their shortcomings. I personally look to outside sources to back up the wonderful things manufacturers say about their products. Anyone who doesn't is bound to be disappointed at some point.

My comment wasn't about ANY product specifically, Yet you seem to have taken it personally for some strange reason. At this point the discussion seems to have degenerated into the same kind of discussion on any forum involving oil in engines though. Guess I was wrong about Aviation being different from the rest of the automotive world. Kudos.

 

[mondtster]

Personally, I say pick the oil you think is best and run it. I've overhauled enough of these engines to have seen some that didn't make it to TBO and others that did which were run on various types of oil. As near as I could tell, the oil type used didn't seem to matter much.

I don't think the oil selection is a critical factor in the longevity of the engine, provided that the correct weight is used. There does seem to be some correlation between Continental starter adapter longevity and oil choice however, which might need to be taken into consideration. I personally favor Phillips XC 20w50 but my customers are split pretty evenly between Phillips and Shell products.

 

[N801BH]

After a nearly 2 hour technical discussion with Ed, I don't think that is correct. As far as lubricity and physical properties, sure. The difference though is in how they handle the byproducts of combustion that get in them. The additive packages in automotive oil are designed to deal oth the byproduct set of auto gas (if you burn MoGas exclusively, I would agree to switch to an automotive oil). All it takes is one quick whiff 100LL next to automotive pump gas of any grade, and you know the two are quite different in formulation. This is the same issue that makes the synthetic base stock in synthetic oils. The same base stock in Shell and Exxon semi synth is what was used in Mobil AV1, and we know how well that worked out.

This entire conversation will be obsolete when lead free aviation fuel is available and required by the EPA..........

Then,, all you need to do is buy the best and cheapest automotive oil and run it..........

 

[Stewartb]

No detergents are ever added to aviation oils.
There is no such thing as an aviation oil that contains detergents. Aviation oils have not contained detergent packages since the mid-1950s. Single and multiviscosity grade mineral-based oils instead contain ashless dispersant (AD) additive packages. ADs are very different than detergents:
• ASHLESS refers to non-metallic additives. Detergents, on the other hand, are metallic by nature. Detergents may scrub existing ash deposits from an engine’s interior surfaces, which will contribute to the ash content, and possible clogging, of the oil.
• DISPERSANT refers to the oil’s ability to suspend combustion by-products, keeping them dispersed until the oil is drained.
Because they suspend engine by-products, AD oils darken faster than non-AD oils. This is a sign that the oil is preventing by-products from solidifying on interior engine surfaces. All AD aviation oils contain oxidation inhibitors as part of their standard additive chemistry. AD oils will not dislodge quantities of sludge from interior engine surfaces that lead to restricted oil screens. AD oils do not add deposit build-up. Instead, they help dissipate existing by-products over time. For example, if an operator uses a non-AD oil for 500 hours, then switches to an oil with an AD package for 500 hours, the AD oil will not "clean out" the first 500 hours worth of engine deposits.

To the guy who implied I have skin in the game? Only in the respect that I own and operate airplanes. I've been honest with my comments and experiences. I try to offer information in these conversations and if you review you'll see that I haven't made recommendations. Read the info, make up your own mind. What I object to in this and many other forum threads is how guys make misinformed comments and worse, offer comments that are cynical and critical without offering any information to back up their attitudes and comments. Cynicism is not information. If guys have information to offer I welcome it. If they make statements I know to be untrue I'll counter them. If they offer nothing but BS, I'll dismiss it.

 

[timwinters]

Stewart,

You're a welcomed addition to the forum.

 

[Henning]

This entire conversation will be obsolete when lead free aviation fuel is available and required by the EPA..........

Then,, all you need to do is buy the best and cheapest automotive oil and run it..........

Maybe, it's not just the lead that is an issue IIRC, so we'll have to see what the final formulation is.

 

[Henning]

To the guy who implied I have skin in the game? Only in the respect that I own and operate airplanes. I've been honest with my comments and experiences. I try to offer information in these conversations and if you review you'll see that I haven't made recommendations. Read the info, make up your own mind. What I object to in this and many other forum threads is how guys make misinformed comments and worse, offer comments that are cynical and critical without offering any information to back up their attitudes and comments. Cynicism is not information. If guys have information to offer I welcome it. If they make statements I know to be untrue I'll counter them. If they offer nothing but BS, I'll dismiss it.

I agree, and I have nothing but respect for Ed. This is a guy who called me over a thread because he saw I was actually interested in understanding the differential chemistry between MoGas and AvGas, the oils used, and how Camguard worked, and it was easier to call me than try to type it all out (2 hours talking is a heck of a lot of typing). I have enough chemistry knowledge that I followed the explanation, and nothing that was told me made me doubt the veracity of what he told me. As far as the Executive Thinking at Exxon, I have no doubts there either, I have seen it many times before. I also know other people like Ed who after working hard on a project doing your best to come up with the best solution, having that solution rejected. This is how many of our products come to market, like A/C electricity.

I have also met him twice in person at OSH, there is nothing about him that makes me doubt he is a genuine article of decent humanity trying to make something beneficial.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

here's how CamGuard helps an old engine......

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm re-thinking the Elite in my Conti 0-470R after the comments .

So, down here in Central TX where we operate mostly above freezing to 100 degrees+, y'all think I'd be better off with a straight weight and camguard?

Or the X/C 20W-50 + camguard since I've been running a multi viscosity?

The most important thing is to stop running an oil with the anti-scuff additives, as it will eventually eat your starter adapter.

I don't have the graph that shows the best temps to run 80 vs. 100 vs. multi-vis, but if you're flying at least weekly you're probably OK running a multi-vis like the XC 20W/50. If you don't fly that often and you do operate solely within the right temperature band for a single-weight oil, go in that direction (though you still need to avoid the "Plus" oils).

 

[Tom-D]

Personally, I say pick the oil you think is best and run it. I've overhauled enough of these engines to have seen some that didn't make it to TBO and others that did which were run on various types of oil. As near as I could tell, the oil type used didn't seem to matter much.

I don't think the oil selection is a critical factor in the longevity of the engine, provided that the correct weight is used. There does seem to be some correlation between Continental starter adapter longevity and oil choice however, which might need to be taken into consideration. I personally favor Phillips XC 20w50 but my customers are split pretty evenly between Phillips and Shell products.

Best response in the thread.

I'd add, the engine most likely to make TBO is the one that gets more frequent oil changes.

 

[txflyer]

Thanks fellas.

I am due for an oil change, so I think I'll try the X/C and camguard. X/C is an ashless dispersant with no anti-scuff agents right? I've been averaging a flight once a week weather allowing ....

I like my starter....

 

[Stewartb]

Thanks fellas.

I am due for an oil change, so I think I'll try the X/C and camguard. X/C is an ashless dispersant with no anti-scuff agents right? I've been averaging a flight once a week weather allowing ....

I like my starter....

X/C does not have an anti-scuff. Coincidentally it also has little corrosion protection. No biggie for guys who fly every day or two. Camguard add corrosion protection.

Do you have any breather spitting with Exxon? Pay attention to how that changes with Phillips. It almost always is reduced when going from semi-sun to mineral oil.

 

[txflyer]

X/C does not have an anti-scuff. Coincidentally it also has little corrosion protection. No biggie for guys who fly every day or two. Camguard add corrosion protection.

Do you have any breather spitting with Exxon? Pay attention to how that changes with Phillips. It almost always is reduced when going from semi-sun to mineral oil.

Thanks.

If you mean oil on the belly, I got plenty of that ....

 

[flyingron]

In the gopher engine I used Aeroshell W100 in the summer and W80 in the winter. 15W50 in a pinch. In the IO-550 I just use Aeroshell 15W50. I pick it up a the local shell distributor in the area (primarily caters to truckers but they do have Aeroshell).

 

[Henning]

Thanks fellas.

I am due for an oil change, so I think I'll try the X/C and camguard. X/C is an ashless dispersant with no anti-scuff agents right? I've been averaging a flight once a week weather allowing ....

I like my starter....

That is correct.

 

[Tom-D]

This engine (0-360-) sat in preservation for several years. It was preserved with storage oil IOWs it was mounted on a build stand nose down, capped, and filled with preservation oil.

 

[Henning]

This engine (0-360-) sat in preservation for several years. It was preserved with storage oil IOWs it was mounted on a build stand nose down, capped, and filled with preservation oil.

Yep, that's the way to do it. Unfortunately that may be the only one of its kind.

 

[Tom-D]

This engine was a 0-300 built in 1949 placed in service on a C-170-A, it ran until 1960 untouched at 500+ hours, It then was then disassembled for prop strike, re-assembled with a new gasket kit, and returned to service, it then ran until I pulled it because the owner did not trust it any longer but it was running well with 2 low compression cylinders. these pictures are from My overhaul.

Dirtiest engine I've seen, the whole engine was varnished up really bad, sludge in the oil slump 1 inch deep, coke on the pistons hard as black diamond.
But
The cranks measured standard, every thing in the engine was re-ground and fitted with 6 ECI cylinder kits and returned to service.

oil ? SAE 50 single weight of several brands. 40 in the winter 50 in the summer.

Time -- 2650TT

Most of the time fancy oil is a waste of money, you are simply over dosing the engine, far exceeding the engine requirements.

I might add, this engine had several long inactive periods. no oil will stop electrolysis. as seen on the lifters.

 

[Tom-D]

I like my starter....

Is your starter a friction clutch?

 

[txflyer]

Is your starter a friction clutch?

That I don't know.

It's a 1964 0-470R Continental.

It is not a sky-tec starter or anything like that.