Oh, that is how pilots land gear up!

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by I'm a Dumbarse, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Cruisin in to my destination after a long XC, cleared to land a ways out approaching downwind on a relatively small strip, decide to make a short approach and dive bomb it in. Know my plane pretty well and its energy management needed to still have a nice touchdown without a long stable approach.

    Cross the threshold leveling off and damn I am fast, can't get this thing to slow down. Touch down WAY fast as I am running out of runway. Not pretty, but plant it and turn off with out incident but a bit of pucker factor trying to figure out what went wrong.

    Cross the hold shot line, reach down to raise the fla....oh s#!t...I forgot flaps on the landing!

    Thought to myself "glad I was not flying a retract today!"

    Not that a no flap landing is a big deal, but I was sure anticipating the performance of full flaps at touchdown with my maneuver.

    And that kids is how complacency kills.
     
  2. Zeldman

    Zeldman En-Route

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    I would bet that is one thing you will never forget again.
     
  3. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The first thing I notice in no flap landings is that the sight picture on approach looks wrong. Especially in Cessnas, the nose is way too high.
     
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  4. JOhnH

    JOhnH Final Approach

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    Speaking of dumbarses and retracts; did an IFR missed approach yesterday. Everything went perfectly except that on climb-out I was making less 75kts (ground speed). Yeah, I was in a 1,000fpm climb with a headwind, but I can't remember the last time the Bo went less than 80 in the air so I started and checking and (face-palm); the gear was still down. Oh well, at least I remembered to lower the gear in the fist place.

    I guess that is what practice is for. Still new to this IFR thing and trying to hone the skills before I need them in real life.
     
  5. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Line Up and Wait

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    :yeahthat:, BTDT...:yes:
     
  6. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Meh, in lots of RGs if you were to dive bomb, first thing you'd do is lower the gear to get to VFE, if you somehow forgot gear, you'd probably also no be rocking any flaps, and you'd zoom right past the runway
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    In 2001, I lost my engine about 600' in the air and teardropped it back to the field, as I'm looking like I'm going to make the runway I say "what am I forgetting?" Oh yes, gear. That's as close as I ever came.

    When I lost the engine enroute last fall, I decided to make it "just like a normal landing" so the gear was part of my normal flow.
     
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  8. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Me too, in a Bo V35B, but on climb out after taking off. :)
     
  9. Norman

    Norman En-Route

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    It's usually the result of a short circuit between the pilot's seat and the gear selector. :D
     
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  10. blueskyMD

    blueskyMD Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Since I got instructions in RG ( I had Arrow for 5 years and a Lance for last 9 years ) I have close to 2000 landings in RGS. I was told to lower gear first in order to slow don and that has worked really good so far. As I get close to airport first thing I do is slow the plane to GES and I reach for the gear by reflex.
     
  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Alas, the Navion gear speed is real slow (87 knots). While it's a great spoiler for steepening the descent (the Navion with full flaps and gear has a pretty dramatic approach angle), you don't use it for a speed brake on approach.
     
  12. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's exactly it. I treat the gear as the first set of flaps.
     
  13. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I like the idea. In the 310 you gotta get the first notch of flaps in to slow enough to gear speed. 180 1st notch, 160 gear and remaining flaps. Hard to descend and slow without the gear and at least 1st notch of flaps.
     
  14. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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  15. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    Must be an old airplane thing. Swift has similar speeds.
     
  16. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow En-Route

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    Just another reason for a stabilized approach.
    You sort of buried yourself on that one.
     
  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Not sure how a long stabilized approach would have changed that.

    Had a DC-9 go gear up in Houston a while back. FO is going "hey the thing isn't slowing down" and the captain's response was pretty much "My airplane" and proceeded to gear it up. Forgot to turn up the hydraulics. At least on the Navion, you can't move the gear handle if you forget to turn the hydraulics on (well sometimes you can, but if you do you probably managed to drop the gear anyhow).
     
  18. Norman

    Norman En-Route

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    There is a solid case for the Cherokee retracts that automatically drop the gear below a given air speed. At the least it saves the "egg on your face" problem.
     
  19. Tflhndn

    Tflhndn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Until it drops the gear on you when you are in a climbing turn at Vx, trying to avoid terrain after going missed.
     
  20. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow En-Route

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    Pitch, power, and noise level would likely be much different than normal.
     
  21. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Swinging the Johnson bar in the Mooney is quite an event. Hard to believe I'd forget it.
     
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  22. SWOdaile

    SWOdaile Filing Flight Plan

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    Well, my Lance does have an override for that, but you have to remember that too.
     
  23. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    I talked to a guy flying a 201 a couple of weeks ago. His dad used to have a Mooney too and one day they were coming home in pretty bad weather (somewhere in Indiana IIRC). They made 2 missed approaches and on the 3rd time broke out right at the minimums when he noticed that the gear horn was blazing. He yelled, "Dad, the gear!" and the dad was like "shut up son, I'm busy". He finally managed to attract dad's attention to the problem when they were over the threshold. Dad swung the Johnson bar in the flare and they plopped down successfully. When they shut down, there was (allegedly) an 18 inches long icicle protruding from the tip of the spinner. This may be an old anecdote or may be truth, but then I saw a video of people ignoring gear horn and bellying it in.
     
  24. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    While the Navion is in restoration, my neighbor is letting me fly his M20C. The Johnson Bar gear is taking some getting used to but I'm finally getting the leverage I need on it. He's a lot shorter than me and the mechanics to do this are different for the two of us.

    I don't think the 201's (M20J) had Johnson bars. Mooney went all electric in 1974 and the 201 came out in 77.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017 at 2:41 PM
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  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I doubt this is what you're doing that's causing the headache but ... the wind resistance to the mechanism is a lot higher at speed than slow.

    Slow up and the Johnson bar is a lot easier to deal with.

    Just for posterity's sake.
     
  26. Salty

    Salty Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Having the preload set properly on the mooney gear makes an enormous difference in the difficulty of engaging it in the gear down position. i think that only helps for the last 4 or 5 inches. If it's before that, the trick is simply to swing it quick in one motion. Don't do it slowly, just yank it and momentum will push it past the wind resistance quite easily.

    I'm short and a weakling and I have no trouble at all unless I try to do it slowly - then it gets stuck about halfway....
     
  27. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Getting the gear handle moved through it's range of motions wasn't the problem. The problem was getting the latches at the end. I needed to get the right leverage on the sliding sleeve.
     
  28. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, getting it latched on the floor was a huge problem for me too. Go up with a proficient CFI (or your buddy if he can work the bar from the right seat). Once you see the sight picture of what it looks like it will help a lot. If the bar isn't fully locked give a push on it south of the collar. That'll get it to sit correctly.
     
  29. Salty

    Salty Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's due to bad preload. Mine was like that when I bought it. I could barely engage it and only when I got my body in the perfect angle to force it in. After my first annual and proper preload adjustment it pops right in with minimal effort.
     
  30. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route PoA Supporter

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    And yet every Arrow I have seen with this system, has the system disabled permantly. ??? -Skip
     
  31. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I had the opposite problem. At KBDL, a Class C airport, we were in the run-up area, the ground controller gave us "Cleared for takeoff runway 23." He then explained that they had inbound traffic and if we could move right away we could go, otherwise wait. We went. On climbout, I was wondering why we were so slow... Duh! Gear still down!

    Disrupting the normal routine is never a good idea! -Skip
     
  32. Anthony

    Anthony Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That is often the problem. When your normal sequence is disrupted you can forget things. That is why my instructor always taught me to check the gear, and say "Three in the green over the fence". It forces you to double (triple) check on your final approach.
     
  33. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I'm happy to say I've only heard the gear warning horn in the Cardinal twice. Once during my initial checkout/complex endorsement and Once during a Flight Review.

    I can't credit my memory for this success. The credit goes to my (paper) checklist and my old school CFI who was unrelenting on Do - Check - Recheck.
     
  34. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Would love to talk to your mechanic. :) I hear mine all the time. The throttle setting has been adjusted at least 3 times, and it ALWAYS returns to a position that's about 17 inches at sea level.

    It's not a good thing, since it makes me less likely to sit up and take notice. I've never come close to landing gear up because I'm always nervous about whether the gear will lock down (had a problem with that a couple of years ago). But never say never.
     
  35. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Had the same thing in my Mooney. Gear horn was set to high it would come on during descents. Now fixed though.
     
  36. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    "Gear down to go down" pops into my brain either at the FAF or downwind. It's worked so far, knock wood.
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    ROFLMAO. Brings back a memory. I took that M20C I flew a bunch back in the day on a long XC and for the first time ever (fatigue I assume), I swung the gear slowly prepping to land at KDWH. And ... ended up in that halfway no-man's land.

    That woke me up! It was a mad scramble to swing it backward far enough to get some momentum to puuuuush and get it to come all the way forward. Hahahah.

    Wasn't so much a big deal as it was a surprise. Being vectored to final VFR. At an unfamiliar airport.

    Quickly becomes one of those things you won't forget again...
     
  38. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've had a couple instances on really hot days where my hand got too sweaty to move the bar. I recall amending to higher (and cooler altitude) once and having a friend do it on another. Lets hear it for CRM!
     
  39. jsstevens

    jsstevens En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Gordon Baxter (I have no direct experience) said you could dip the nose slightly and use the momentum to help swing the gear up and vice versa coming down. Maybe it'll help...
     
  40. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    I've suffered from Mooney envy on occasion, when I've felt "the need for speed" whilst slogging along in my Cardinal RG. But stories like this make me think I made the right decision after all!