ODP Procedure

[Ghery]

I like ODPs as well and fly them regularly. I like not hitting things.

Yup. Take a look at the airport diagram for KDLS and guess which one my DPE gave me weather to support using when planning an IFR flight from KDLS to KOLM.

Oh, and don't let the name of the airport fool you. It's on the Washington side of the river.

 

[dtuuri]

Diverse departures usually begin at a runway.

They always begin at a runway, they usually (?) begin below controlled airspace based on a guess that there's more airports without surface areas than with them.

dtuuri

 

[Approach_controller]

After a quick skim of this, I'd ask on the ground about the ODP if IMC. I ALWAYS issue it. If it was TERPED out it was probably done so for a reason.

Granted not all make sense. I'm pretty sure we have one that involves climbing through VMC to a certain altitude.

 

[roncachamp]

They always begin at a runway, they usually (?) begin below controlled airspace based on a guess that there's more airports without surface areas than with them.

Exactly, that's why your position is crapola.

 

[roncachamp]

After a quick skim of this, I'd ask on the ground about the ODP if IMC. I ALWAYS issue it. If it was TERPED out it was probably done so for a reason.

Even when separation is not an issue? Even when it's clear and a million?

 

[dtuuri]

Exactly, that's why your position is crapola.

You must have a better insult in your rolodex than that non sequitur.

dtuuri

 

[roncachamp]

You must have a better insult in your rolodex than that non sequitur.i

Insult? How does one insult a position?

 

[Approach_controller]

Even when separation is not an issue? Even when it's clear and a million?

We only have a handful of ODPs and 99% of the time pilots depart the airports that do depart in VMC and call airborne. None of our ODPs take people more than a quarter mile out of their way and are basically the heading I'd have to issue anyway to avoid vectoring into a prominent obstacle.

Really, here its such a rare occurrence and so inconsequential I haven't given it much thought.

 

[dtuuri]

Insult? How does one insult a position?

I don't really care how you do it, but feel free to reveal your secret. There's a few around here who could use some mentoring.

dtuuri

 

[aterpster]

We only have a handful of ODPs and 99% of the time pilots depart the airports that do depart in VMC and call airborne. None of our ODPs take people more than a quarter mile out of their way and are basically the heading I'd have to issue anyway to avoid vectoring into a prominent obstacle.

Really, here its such a rare occurrence and so inconsequential I haven't given it much thought.

Only IFR airports have takeoff minimums and, when necessary, an ODP. If an IFR airport has takeoff minimums but no ODP, then it is good for diverse departures.

 

[Captain]

Okay, I'll bite: what's a 'diverse departure'?

 

[Velocity173]

Okay, I'll bite: what's a 'diverse departure'?

Whenever an airport that has at least one instrument approach there an assessment is done to see if anything penetrates the 40:1 slope. If something penetrates then an ODP is done or a min climb rate/min wx for departure. If nothing penetrates then you can do a diverse departure.

A diverse departure is when you take off and if you cross the DER at 35 ft agl or more and climbout at least 200 ft (400 for heliport) per NM will provide at least a 48 ft per NM clearance from obstructions. Once you reach 400 agl above DER, you can turn on course free of obstructions. This will allow the aircraft to transition to the enroute environment at 25 miles and give a 1,000 ft clearance.

It's something that every IFR pilot should check for when departing an airfield. If there's no ODP or SID, you better be climbing at over 200 FPNM.

That's it in a nut shell. I'm sure Duturri or Arterpster can provide greater detail.

 

[Captain]

Ding! THAT'S why every operator I've ever flown for has a 400' min turn altitude! LIB, learn something every day. Thanks.

 

[bbchien]

Whenever an airport that has at least one instrument approach there an assessment is done to see if anything penetrates the 40:1 slope. If something penetrates then an ODP is done or a min climb rate/min wx for departure. If nothing penetrates then you can do a diverse departure.

A diverse departure is when you take off and if you cross the DER at 35 ft agl or more and climbout at least 200 ft (400 for heliport) per NM will provide at least a 48 ft per NM clearance from obstructions. Once you reach 400 agl you can turn on course free of obstructions. This will allow the aircraft to transition to the enroute environment at 25 miles and give a 1,000 ft clearance.

It's something that every IFR pilot should check for when departing an airfield. If there's no ODP or SID, you better be climbing at over 200 FPNM.

That's it in a nut shell.

That is "post of the string". It's as CONCISE as you can get.

 

[dtuuri]

Only IFR airports have takeoff minimums and, when necessary, an ODP. If an IFR airport has takeoff minimums but no ODP, then it is good for diverse departures.

Not exactly. The obstacle needs to be lower than the aircraft first. That's why the takeoff minimums exist--a 40:1 standard diverse departure won't clear it.

dtuuri

 

[Velocity173]

That is "post of the string". It's as CONCISE as you can get.

Lol! I guess a week of TERPS in the instrument examiners course four years ago helped a little.

 

[dtuuri]

That is "post of the string". It's as CONCISE as you can get.

I liked it too.

dtuuri

 

[Approach_controller]

Only IFR airports have takeoff minimums and, when necessary, an ODP. If an IFR airport has takeoff minimums but no ODP, then it is good for diverse departures.

Allow me to fully state. I have in the past worked with current TERPsters and I'm well aware of the climb gradients that go into the building of ODPs, even if I don't know the actual numbers off hand.

My drive to work reveals valley fog at one class D in my airspace. Radiation, Freezing, Ice or Mixing fog are unknown to me in the early hours. At the ODP airports I'm mostly blind. If its clear an a million on my drive to work at 5am the other fields could be socked in. I don't know and its common to run visuals to one airport and instrument approaches to the rest. Hence the issuing of ODP's.

If someone said I don't want to fly it, I'll delete it, if someone asks what the ODP is I'll tell them. It hasn't happened yet.

 

[aterpster]

Not exactly. The obstacle needs to be lower than the aircraft first. That's why the takeoff minimums exist--a 40:1 standard diverse departure won't clear it.

dtuuri

It will at 400 feet, agl, otherwise it won't be diverse.

Takeoff minimums should be standard at most diverse departure airports.

 

[dtuuri]

It will at 400 feet, agl, otherwise it won't be diverse.

If there's not a "Departure route", then it's "Diverse". Diverse departures can have restrictions, from TERPS (my emphasis):

"2.2 DEPARTURE SECTORS.
Where OCS penetrations prevent unrestricted diverse departure, consider constructing sectors within the diverse areas where departure flight is prohibited. Departure instructions must assure the aircraft will maneuver clear of the prohibited sector boundaries."​

Takeoff minimums should be standard at most diverse departure airports.

If you're saying there aren't going to be ceilings published higher than 400' AGL, I don't agree. If you're saying something else, you'll have to walk me through it.

Btw, I have a Flash tutorial on ODP considerations here:

http://www.avclicks.com/Flash2/Stairway_to_Heaven2/index.html​

dtuuri