Obtaining Approaches to Private Airports

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Kelvin, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    So...I am headed to 20GA..Stockmar Field west of Atlanta. The place looks like a gem. Nice runway...decent fuel costs...

    I do my due diligence, make sure I can get a car, make sure that I can land and then as directed by the website, I ask for the approach plate that apparently exists for the field.

    The guy I spoke to was incredibly nice and explained that in order to get the plate, I had to visit the ATL FSDO to prove that I had an IR.

    Is this ordinary?
     
  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    No idea, but the FSDO would already have your certificate info on file, so they would know if you have an IR or not. Maybe they just want to verify it’s really you via in person ID?
     
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  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Didn’t look it up to see who you’d normally ask, but who did you ask for it?

    Wouldn’t that person be able to look at your certificate, then take the number and confirm it in the airman database?

    Was it someone old enough to be stuck some date prior to the airman database being online who thinks this is AOL days and doesn’t have a modem?

    LOL. Sorry man. Just rambling here. :)

    Somebody is incredibly dumb in this process.

    Here’s hoping the plate is better written than the procedure for getting a copy of it.
     
  4. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    I spoke to "some guy on the phone" but jiminy crickets...he was versed in all things 20GA. We covered hangars, locations on the field, fuel, prices and rental car availability. When I asked for the plate, he went from being and ambassador to an apologist.

    I agree...something is very dumb abut this process...
     
  5. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    Stockmar is a private airport, private use. I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA creates approaches for private use airports.
     
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  6. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    But wouldn't the approach have to be the product of the FAA to be a legal approach? I doubt they allow "roll your own" approaches to be used when truly IFR.
     
  7. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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  8. midwestpa24

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    https://www.airnav.com/airport/20GA

    "There are no published instrument procedures at 20GA."

    Is there such a thing as an unpublished instrument approach? If the FAA created it, which they would have to, why wouldn't it be published. I'd guess the guy was pulling your leg.
     
  9. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    There is such a thing as a Special Instrument Approach though. I read about them somewhere very recently... as in, a couple of days ago. Might have been in an email from FAAST, or a Pilot Workshop, or some such.

    Anyway, at least some are published and some will be in your GPS's database, but they still do require special authorization to fly. Some, as I recall, are indeed to private use airports. I have no idea whether the approach at 20GA falls into that category, though.
     
  10. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    denverpilot, Let'sgoflying! and azure like this.
  11. azure

    azure Final Approach

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  12. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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  13. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you notice, a lot in that list are hospital approaches. EMS companies pay a private contractor or the FAA to design a “copter approach” just for them. Since it’s paid for by the company, they limit its use to only company aircraft. You might be able to bring up the approach in your data base, but the plate is only accessed through the company’s private server or the FSDO.

    Some airports that are utilized by EMS have them as well. If you check Gilmer (49A), there’s no published approach but EMS has a Copter RNAV and a DP in there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  14. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    Nor are they published in Part 97.
     
  15. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    9026DBE1-D170-4B88-AA98-1183AB3E6C44.jpeg

    Military version of a special IAP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  16. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sometimes you can see that there is one. Look at Florence, OR, 6S2. There’s that little piece of 700 foot Class E, about a 3 mile radius. There is a Hospital about a half a mile southwest of the airport.
     
  17. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, Copter GPS 151. I’d be willing to bet an EMS provider like Reach (EC135) uses that airport for pickup to transfer to a higher trauma center.
     
  18. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    The FAA might not create the approach but they have it...Stockmar is private and permission is obtained by calling ahead. Once given, it is not rescinded.

    Good question. I do not know. Given the FAA has the approach and doles it out, I am pretty sure it is an FAA product. Where is Wally when you need him??

    You'd guess wrong. :cornut: The approach exists. As I was told, it is given out through the ATL FSDO. I have reached out to the office and look forward to their reply.
    Well there ya go!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  19. Lachlan

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  20. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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  21. FlyingElvii

    FlyingElvii Line Up and Wait

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    7fl6 is another one, I think
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Oh. I just assumed the Approach was to the hospital itself, not the Airport. I looked at the satellite map again and didn’t see a big H at the hospital.
     
  23. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I hear the Long Beach FSDO has the list.
     
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  24. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    Can't find that airport in skyvector.
     
  25. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    7FL6, Spruce Creek, at Daytona Beach.
     
  26. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah, up in Pennsylvania somewhere (near State College as I was flying in to pick up my daughter), there's a little transition area with no airport in it. Turns out there was a helicopter approach to a heliport (some hospital), but it wasn't "published" nor was the heliport charted.
     
  27. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    @aterpster
    Is it usual for the FAA to require approaches to private airports to be filtered to pilots through the FSDO?

    In this case, I was told I had to physically visit the FSDO to obtain the plate...seems a bit heavy handed to me...
     
  28. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    It's an RNAV approach, so somehow you've got to get it added to your database as well...maybe the FSDO contact is part of that process.
     
  29. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    That is the only thong I have read that makes any sense. I have made initial contact wit the FSDO...I think I'll chase this rabbit into the hole to see what is there...
     
  30. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Reach is advertising an approach to the hospital. Most likely it has a VFR transition off the MAP (point in space) that goes to the hospital. Looks like they might have a pad in the middle of the road at the hospital.

    https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...CH-Air-Medical-Services-Receives-FAA-Approval
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  31. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I don't think that reading thongs is going to help (at least with this approach).:eek:
     
  32. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

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    A while back, I was flying cross-country and came across a big, honkin' airport, 7,000' paved runway (concrete, not asphalt!), brand new, with PAPI on both ends. One (big) hangar.

    It was not on the screen of my 430W, but when I did a "Nearest," I did find the IAPs for it, LPVs at both ends, and from that, I found the airport's identifier, and the fact that someone there commutes to Dallas Love Field every day, usually in a King Air, but sometimes in a Falcon 3-Holer. Nice.

    And there's a resort at which an organization I'm involved with had an event; the resort's airport is very nice, but Prior-Permission Required. Permission readily given to land there, but the folks told me that they were no longer allowed to provide the IAP (an LPV) to pilots, but instead, that the pilot was required to visit the FSDO to get the IAP. I later figured out that if you Googled the airport name and "instrument approach," you'd find a blog post with the Plate attached, and it was confirmed to me that the controllers never asked if you'd chatted-up the FSDO before clearing you for the approach. It was in my Avidyne's database in all its glory, but not in ForeFlight. I landed visual, anyway, so no problem.
     
  33. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    If this is the RNAV (LNAV-only) approach to rwy 10 at 20GA, it's in my 480's database already (I checked today, just for the halibut). Not sure if it is in all Jepp databases, but it might be. If it's a Special, you still need authorization from whomever (I assume the FSDO) to fly it.
     
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  34. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  35. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    Wrong thread...:biggrin::biggrin:

     
  36. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    Right on.

    I am going to check my database tomorrow to see if it is in there...

     
  37. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Butt how can it be wrong?
     
  38. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    As an aside, I’ve also seen company only approaches approved by the Feds and the usual distribution of the plate was by going to work for them, and they’d get you a packet of paper plates that were marked confidential or something like that. If you were flying with their company callsign, ATC knew about them and could assign the approaches.

    Nowadays I assume the company just shoves the extra plates at you digitally via stuff like ForeFlight’s centralized document management along with other company stuff. Or Jepp’s god awful software. Or whatever they use for an EFB.

    Back then they were just included in their company provided Jeppesen “fast” updates where you yanked out whole sections of the book and replaced them en masse. Anybody working for them would happily give anyone they knew the left over paper copy. Not that you’d ever fly it, but you had it if you really had some problem near that airport and needed the plate in an emergency.

    Or really just out of curiosity and being a pack rat. LOL.
     
  39. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    The "Q" Service.
     
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  40. Kenny Phillips

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    There are appear to be two helicopter approaches to the hospital that's 0.9 NM from me. Usually they appear to fly visual when we have low ceilings, perhaps they are actually flying an approach. There are several high towers locally as well.