O-235-C1B Parts for Overhaul and other questions

N1230k

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Roy Reeves
I acquired a Luscombe 8A project earlier this year. All the parts, minus engine and prop, but I did get the engine mount, baffling, exhaust, etc. Included is a STC for an O-235-C and prior owner did a lot of the upgrades ( metal wings, wing tanks, electrical). This week I negotiated what I hope is a good deal on an engine - disassembled but all there except accessories. Visual inspection and a micrometer indicate crank and cam are in spec or close . . . Amateur on the calipers here. This brings me to ask:

Who/where can I get things like Crank, Cam, and Case inspected and yellow tagged?

Why should / should I not get yellow tags? This applies to all parts, in particular starter, mags, etc which I will need to source. I am sure there is a simple answer, or should be, but …. When I was in a partnership on a Cirrus, we just trusted our A&P, 4 of us to share bill and I am (was) most mechanical of the owners group - I would do oil changes and “preventive stuff” but that was a TAA. I would never have considered doing anything extensive.

But the L8 is a one owner plane, rather simple in all things. So in past, if plane gave a hiccup during taxi and run up that the backup fuel pump seemed to cure - mechanic worried about who to send it to and yellow tags, and all that. But with the Luscombe, I think I need to know “why” I do/don't need yellow tags since I know it cost extra. For example, I spoke to someone who has decades experience rebuilding magnetos, but he does not issue yellow tags (said if I need them, he can rebuild and have an inspector issue the tag - this cost is $100 per mag. Granted, not the most $$ but 2 mags, carburetor, starter, case, crank, cam, 4 cylinders and who knows how many other items - effectively I am wandering how important is it to have 15-20 yellow tags?

Is it an airworthiness thing? True airworthiness or just insurance requirement airworthy? Or is it essentially paperwork to cover one’s tail that only matters if you crash?

After securing this part of my education - I have questions about parts list, suggestions for shops, anyone ever source their own parts ( from aviation suppliers) to have A&P do overhaul, and a lot more. It is both cost and time - I don,t want the engine done and just sitting, but I also know cost seems to go up daily.

Lastly, I have been reading other threads- it seems most guys just go to the big name shops or factory. Factory, I understand, but if factory reman or new is not an economically viable option, what is wrong with a local A&P, the kind that allows owner assisted annuals - does anyone do that anymore - rebuilding the engine? Airplane engines are not really technically advanced, why should we treat them like high performance European car engines when they simply are not complicated. Airplane engines are really more simple than a Chevy 350 in a 1970’s C-10 pickup. Shouldn’t any A&P be able to rebuild it? Again, this is not a high-performance technically advanced turbo charged European engine jammed into a little bitty compartment such that… Well, they are called technicians now, not mechanics for a reason, but the guy working on my plane… He’s a mechanic and if he cannot rebuild an O235, why should I trust him?
 
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Who/where can I get things like Crank, Cam, and Case inspected and yellow tagged?
Any FAA repair station approved to provide the service you seek on the specific components you have.

Why should / should I not get yellow tags?
Depends on a number of things. If you want to sell these items individually, then it may be worth the cost and logistics to have them inspected and found airworthy. However, since you state you have the entire engine assembly and do not need it for a core requirement, you would probably be money ahead to sell the entire engine assy for the cost of its average core value. And let the other person deal with it.

For example, I spoke to someone who has decades experience rebuilding magnetos, but he does not issue yellow tags (said if I need them, he can rebuild and have an inspector issue the tag - this cost is $100 per mag.
Technically, yellow, green, and red tags are used only within a certified repair station operation. There is a standalone airworthiness approval tag, Form 8130-3, however only limited individuals are permitted to issue these tags and an A&P is not one of them. So that is reason behind the cost for an 8130-3 and even large venders will charge extra for an 8130-3.

Is it an airworthiness thing? True airworthiness or just insurance requirement airworthy? Or is it essentially paperwork to cover one’s tail that only matters if you crash?
Yes, on the 1st question. Depends on the others. The final airworthiness determination of a part is made by the installer. One method to confirm that by an installer is a 8130-3 where a shop documents the work performed, etc. But it is not “mandatory” a mechanic must have a 8130 or similar tag to install something. However, depending on the part a majority do.

what is wrong with a local A&P, the kind that allows owner assisted annuals - does anyone do that anymore - rebuilding the engine?
They’re still out there. For example, there are several threads on PoA of owners performing their own engine overhauls under supervision. However, with the change in the dynamics on the Part 91 recreational side, a number of mechanics no longer offer heavy engine work or even assisted mx for various reasons. I personally stopped heavy engine mx in the 90s as my insurance provider moved to a special rider policy to perform it. I also offered assisted-mx for a number of years, however, as the market changed, I moved away from it before I retired.

Well, they are called technicians now, not mechanics for a reason, but the guy working on my plane… He’s a mechanic and if he cannot rebuild an O235, why should I trust him?
The term technician is an artifact left over from the Part 66 attempt to “update” the aviation maintenance ranks. IMO, technicians wear lab coats, carry a clipboard, and change parts. There’s still a lot of mechanics out there who actually fix things. And that trust starts with you sitting down with your potential mechanic and see if that relationship will work vs applying a checklist list of abilities to make that decision. For context, the types of maintenance I would perform on an owner's aircraft was directly proportional to how much I trusted him.
 
Thanks for the answers. I plan to keep the engine and have it rebuilt and installed on a Luscombe.
 
Thanks for clarification. In my mind, rebuilt means put Bach together. Perhaps more exact wording is reassemble. The question is “who” will do the job
 
New question on this subject: Does anyone have a recent (or at least fairly up to date) parts list for the O-235-Cxx engine overhaul?

I have a Lycoming Parts Catalog for the O-235 engine that came with my project and it appears to be the most recent copy (same as the one on the Lycoming website, which is dated Jan. 1987. It would appear that many . . dare I say "most" . . . of the part numbers have been superseded. Some of them twice. Ergo - does anyone have a parts list for a recent overhaul on an O-235-C engine. It would be perfect if it were a -C1B, but just a -C engine would be so helpful.

FYI - my goal is to start gathering parts like the gaskets, etc. I am in all likelihood going to take the cylinders to Sal's, particularly since he is so highly recommended and only 30 minute drive from my home. But for the rest of the engine, I plan to send the major components for inspection, locate the parts myself, and then when I have the plane restored and close to ready to hang an engine - whomever I end up choosing to overhaul the engine only needs me to deliver parts and come back a week later (my project can progress on my schedule, and I will not hear "parts on back-order". I just think it best to do my waiting when I am not in a hurry.

So, who has a parts list they will share?
 
I am in all likelihood going to take the cylinders to Sal's, particularly since he is so highly recommended and only 30 minute drive from my home. But for the rest of the engine, I plan to send the major components for inspection, locate the parts myself, and then when I have the plane restored and close to ready to hang an engine - whomever I end up choosing to overhaul the engine only needs me to deliver parts and come back a week later
There are overhaul kits available by engine model number vs ordering parts individually. And you may want to select the person you plan to have sign off the OH first before you start sending parts out for inspection, etc. to see where they stand on your plan. Every mechanic has their own method to meet the requirements for a Part 43.2 OH sign-off and you may be money ahead to see if your plan fits into their method.
 
Here's a list that Superior Air Parts has for a -C that says "* In Accordance with Textron-Lycoming Mandatory Service Bulletin 240R"
Thanks Brock: I have seen this list before but this is my first O/H so I am probably overthinking the whole thing . . . but is the Superior list "everything" or only those that Superior makes/or can procure and deliver? When I looked at it, I became concerned that it was just the parts needed that Superior makes or sells. But, if that is a complete list, excepting the parts my shop says are outside limits, then I am well on my way.
 
There are overhaul kits available by engine model number vs ordering parts individually.
I am very happy to hear that. I know I can go to my auto parts supplier and get a kit for a Chevy 305, not sure why I never typed "O/H kit" into the parts search. But I will try now.
 
Every mechanic has their own method to meet the requirements for a Part 43.2 OH sign-off and you may be money ahead to see if your plan fits into their method.
Good point! I had not considered that and was thinking in terms of I can send the stuff out, get them back with Yellow Tags or at least know what i need to buy/hunt down.
 
Thanks Brock: I have seen this list before but this is my first O/H so I am probably overthinking the whole thing . . . but is the Superior list "everything" or only those that Superior makes/or can procure and deliver? When I looked at it, I became concerned that it was just the parts needed that Superior makes or sells. But, if that is a complete list, excepting the parts my shop says are outside limits, then I am well on my way.
Thats a good question I don't have an answer to.
 
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