NTSB Stats

[FastEddieB]

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics in 2015 there were 8,600,936 registered Motorcycles in the U.S. If the number of motorcycles held about the same, and there were 5,286 fatal accidents in 2016, then around .0614% of registered motorcycles were involved in a fatal accident so less tan 1%.

Worth mentioning is that many motorcyclists own multiple motorcycles, reducing the chances that any given rider will be involved in a fatal accident.

 

[flyingron]

While I've known a couple of people who commuted or otherwise used a motorcycle as a daily driver, I suspect the vast number of them sit idle most of the time.

 

[Bill]

While I've known a couple of people who commuted or otherwise used a motorcycle as a daily driver, I suspect the vast number of them sit idle most of the time.

I commuted almost daily by motorcycle for 18 years, rain, shine, hot, cold. Only days I didn't ride were predictions for severe storms or frozen precip. Your skills are very sharp when you ride daily.

 

[Norman]

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics in 2015 there were 8,600,936 registered Motorcycles in the U.S. If the number of motorcycles held about the same, and there were 5,286 fatal accidents in 2016, then around .0614% of registered motorcycles were involved in a fatal accident so less tan 1%.

Those statistics may indicate that only a small percentage of riders are involved in fatal accidents but:

In the past three years Michigan State Police have had two fatalities while riding. Both were experienced riders which they have to be in order to get into the motorcycle patrol. One was the victim of a motorist whose head was where the sun don't shine. I'm not privy to information about the other and only know it occurred at an intersection.

 

[flyingron]

Bikers need to be particularly vigilant as most of the cagers are oblivious. I've had two friends put in shock-a-rama having had people turn into them. Another was knocked off his bike when a truck's mirror clipped him in the back.

I've certainly picked a few up in the years I was a paramedic. One (alas did not make it) who came over a rise and hit a 4x4 in the middle of the road (I think it was a mailbox post that got knocked over). The amusing one was a motorcyclist who was stopped at a stop sign, a car (drunk driver) rear ended him. I got to the scene to find the motorcycle, still up right jammed in the grill of the car. From examining the scene it appears the biker was thrown onto the hood of the car. He then walked around to the window, smashed it with his hand, and extracted the drunk through the window. I managed to get the biker into the back of the ambulance on the guise of a more thorough examination while my partner dealt with the other driver in place.

 

[Norman]

Bikers need to be particularly vigilant as most of the cagers are oblivious. I've had two friends put in shock-a-rama having had people turn into them. Another was knocked off his bike when a truck's mirror clipped him in the back.

I've certainly picked a few up in the years I was a paramedic. One (alas did not make it) who came over a rise and hit a 4x4 in the middle of the road (I think it was a mailbox post that got knocked over). The amusing one was a motorcyclist who was stopped at a stop sign, a car (drunk driver) rear ended him. I got to the scene to find the motorcycle, still up right jammed in the grill of the car. From examining the scene it appears the biker was thrown onto the hood of the car. He then walked around to the window, smashed it with his hand, and extracted the drunk through the window. I managed to get the biker into the back of the ambulance on the guise of a more thorough examination while my partner dealt with the other driver in place.

Ron,

I've been on both sides of that fence. There was a time or two I couldn't see the bike from my car/truck and nearly caused a rider some grief. Thankfully I didn't. In my 100,000 miles of riding there were times I had to make a sudden swerve to avoid becoming road pizza. Our MSF instructor was hell on wheels when it came to being aware of one's surroundings at all times. He preached that there was no time to be complacent while riding. I'm glad I paid close attention to his 'sermons'. I always managed to keep the Wing shiny side up.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Our MSF instructor was hell on wheels when it came to being aware of one's surroundings at all times. He preached that there was no time to be complacent while riding. I'm glad I paid close attention to his 'sermons'. I always managed to keep the Wing shiny side up.

When I was a freshman in college I bought my first bike. My best friend was still in high school and he bought one, too. We were over at his house (parents' house) admiring them when his dad came outside. Dad was an old school Navy guy -- anchor tattoo on the forearm and everything -- with a growl for a voice. He said words I repeated to my son when he got his bike.

"If you're going to ride a motorcycle, you need to keep one rule in mind every second you're on the road. Just pretend that every car you can see is being driven by your girlfriend's dad."

Nuff said.

 

[GlennAB1]

I only rode my motorcycle a few times this year. I have a few friends that have cut back also, mainly due to cell phone usage.

 

[Kritchlow]

But those things aren't nearly as simple as taking a 2 day license class, putting on a helmet and jacket, and not taking a drink. Those three things make a bike almost as safe as a car.

But than you would be comparing them to car accidents with drunk drivers, drivers not wearing seatbelts, and so forth.
Need to keep apples to apples. Can’t compare “safe” mortocycle drivers to the full array of automobile drivers.

 

[Half Fast]

Need to keep apples to apples. Can’t compare “safe” mortocycle drivers to the full array of automobile drivers.

Actually, I was trying to compare safety between bikes and planes. My point was that simple actions can dramatically increase safety for a motorcyclist, but equally simple actions yielding dramatic safety improvements don't exist for pilots.

 

[Palmpilot]

...but equally simple actions yielding dramatic safety improvements don't exist for pilots.

An unwarranted assumption. Here's a list, courtesy of the red board, of easily avoided aviation accident causes:

(1) Pilot needlessly flew into other than air.....(night VMC think Superstition mountain, mid air collision, and improper IFR, Runway LOC, and “hey watch this”)
(2) Pilot expected performance wildly beyond capability of the aircraft (high density altitude, Wintertime climbout from big rocks, four in a C172 with full fuel, Baron with five up and full Fuel and uphill runway eg. St. Ignace accident, etc).
(3) Pilot was cognitively impaired (drugs, fatigue, long duty cycle).
(4) Pilot departed with known deficiency (propped the B58 and geared it up, Y***** J***** accident in Newark).
(5) Pilot was a scofflaw (no medical, out of annual, no BFR, “What-did-you-expect”).
(6) Pilot ran out of go-juice (planes fly better with go-juice).
(7) Pilot fails to request help.
(8) Pilot FAIL in icing conditions (think TMB 850 accident at MMU).
(9) Pilot did a **** poor job with the planning and failed to abort the accident chain (get-there-it is, both fuel and weather).
(10) Pilot failed to perform adequate on-ground actions​

 

[CC268]

I looked into this a couple of years ago, reading the most authoritative reports I could find.

Fatality rates per 100k miles are higher for motorcycles than general aviation, but the difference almost vanishes if you exclude three of the biggest risk factors for bikes: drunk, no license, and no helmet.

I always think about that, when considering giving a ride on the plane: it might seem safer than a ride on my bike, but it’s not.

Flying small planes is simply a dangerous mode of transport.

I guess I just can’t agree with the interpretation that flying (small planes) is a “dangerous” mode of transportation. I suppose it depends on your definition of dangerous.

I brought up a similar subject a while back...and if flying is dangerous isn’t it irresponsible to be flying your kids/family/friends around? Your exposing them to a high risk situation. If they can’t make the decision for themselves then you shouldn’t be exposing them to that situation.

I don’t have any kids yet so I don’t have to worry about that but food for thought.

 

[Half Fast]

An unwarranted assumption. Here's a list, courtesy of the red board, of easily avoided aviation accident causes:

(1) Pilot needlessly flew into other than air.....(night VMC think Superstition mountain, mid air collision, and improper IFR, Runway LOC, and “hey watch this”)
(2) Pilot expected performance wildly beyond capability of the aircraft (high density altitude, Wintertime climbout from big rocks, four in a C172 with full fuel, Baron with five up and full Fuel and uphill runway eg. St. Ignace accident, etc).
(3) Pilot was cognitively impaired (drugs, fatigue, long duty cycle).
(4) Pilot departed with known deficiency (propped the B58 and geared it up, Y***** J***** accident in Newark).
(5) Pilot was a scofflaw (no medical, out of annual, no BFR, “What-did-you-expect”).
(6) Pilot ran out of go-juice (planes fly better with go-juice).
(7) Pilot fails to request help.
(8) Pilot FAIL in icing conditions (think TMB 850 accident at MMU).
(9) Pilot did a **** poor job with the planning and failed to abort the accident chain (get-there-it is, both fuel and weather).
(10) Pilot failed to perform adequate on-ground actions​

That's 10 versus 3.

And NONE of those are as simple as
1) Wear a helmet
2) Don't take a drink
3) Complete a one-time training class

 

[Half Fast]

I guess I just can’t agree with the interpretation that flying (small planes) is a “dangerous” mode of transportation. I suppose it depends on your definition of dangerous.

I brought up a similar subject a while back...and if flying is dangerous isn’t it irresponsible to be flying your kids/family/friends around? Your exposing them to a high risk situation. If they can’t make the decision for themselves then you shouldn’t be exposing them to that situation.

I don’t have any kids yet so I don’t have to worry about that but food for thought.

"Dangerous" is a relative term, not absolute. Some things are more or less dangerous than others. I've taken my son flying, scuba diving, motorcycle riding,... These all have risks and varying ways of reducing those risks, but there remains a certain amount of danger with all of them. It's an evaluation that we all have to make personally.

Is flying a "high risk situation?" I'd say no, but it's relative and depends on personal perspective. I'm a cave diver and I've been a racing driver. Someone who's hobbies are knitting and jigsaw puzzles might consider flying to be near-suicidal.

 

[CC268]

"Dangerous" is a relative term, not absolute. Some things are more or less dangerous than others. I've taken my son flying, scuba diving, motorcycle riding,... These all have risks and varying ways of reducing those risks, but there remains a certain amount of danger with all of them. It's an evaluation that we all have to make personally.

Is flying a "high risk situation?" I'd say no, but it's relative and depends on personal perspective. I'm a cave diver and I've been a racing driver. Someone who's hobbies are knitting and jigsaw puzzles might consider flying to be near-suicidal.

Yea absolutely I agree it’s a relative term. I grew up racing motocross which I suppose could be considered a “dangerous” sport. The word dangerous seems maybe overstated though if you take risk management seriously. Just my thoughts

I certainly don’t consider myself to be a risky kinda guy lol

Adding to this...I wasn't taking my fiancee flying as I just didn't feel comfortable exposing her to the risk or flying. Since then I have taken her up a few times though.

 

[Palmpilot]

That's 10 versus 3.

And NONE of those are as simple as
1) Wear a helmet
2) Don't take a drink
3) Complete a one-time training class

I don't see what the point is of comparing the number of items on each list. They can all be summarized in one sentence: "Don't take easily avoided risks."

 

[Half Fast]

Yea absolutely I agree it’s a relative term. I grew up racing motocross which I suppose could be considered a “dangerous” sport. The word dangerous seems maybe overstated though if you take risk management seriously. Just my thoughts

I certainly don’t consider myself to be a risky kinda guy lol

There's also "risk of what?" Motorcycle and auto racing have a pretty fair risk of injury, but not a great risk of death. I smacked a wall at over 100mph once and cracked a rib, but nothing worse, and that's often the case.

 

[CC268]

There's also "risk of what?" Motorcycle and auto racing have a pretty fair risk of injury, but not a great risk of death. I smacked a wall at over 100mph once and cracked a rib, but nothing worse, and that's often the case.

Yea exactly. Well I lost my left pinky toe hehe. It exploded in my boot when I hit another guys footpeg. There have been a suprising amount of deaths in motocross though. A kid I used to race with died when he overjumped a triple, hit his neck on the handlebars, broke his neck and died. Very sad. Another well known kid here in AZ died at an amateur National due to head trauma. It does happen.

I think some people just get a kick out of saying that the hobbies they participate in are high risk. Like they are a dare devil or something.

I like to think that good ADM decreases risk considerably and presents a pretty safe flight.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

(5) Pilot was a scofflaw (no medical, out of annual, no BFR, “What-did-you-expect”).

Ain't got no medical, airplane doesn't get an "annual", last BFR was in the 80's (along with everyone else) - how does that cause accidents?

 

[Palmpilot]

Ain't got no medical, airplane doesn't get an "annual", last BFR was in the 80's (along with everyone else) - how does that cause accidents?

I didn't write that list, I only quoted it.

 

[denverpilot]

Does this fall under the motor vehicle or pipeline category (melted the pavement and siding on houses a block away)

The headline on that was wrong. The helo was just hovering over wreckage. Where’s the Earth shattering KABOOM?!

Research death while sitting on the toilet... increase your fiber intake, kids.

“My Squatty Potty saved my life!” Right after the LifeAlert commercial at 2AM.

I only rode my motorcycle a few times this year. I have a few friends that have cut back also, mainly due to cell phone usage.

It is definitely difficult to use the cell phone and ride.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

The headline on that was wrong. The helo was just hovering over wreckage. Where’s the Earth shattering KABOOM?!

 

[denverpilot]

Much better.

 

[NoHeat]

I guess I just can’t agree with the interpretation that flying (small planes) is a “dangerous” mode of transportation. I suppose it depends on your definition of dangerous.

To shape one's opinion, besides statistics, there is anecdotal experience. Here's mine:

The time since someone close to me died in a crash was:

• eight months, for small planes (stall-spin during dual instruction)
  
• seven years, for automobiles (drunk driving)
• never, for airlines.

This is so despite the vastly greater miles and frequency that my acquaintances have traveled by auto and airline than by small plane.

 

[CC268]

To shape one's opinion, besides statistics, there is anecdotal experience. Here's mine:

The time since someone close to me died in a crash was:

• eight months, for small planes (stall-spin during dual instruction)
  
• seven years, for automobiles (drunk driving)
• never, for airlines.

This is so despite the vastly greater miles and frequency that my acquaintances have traveled by auto and airline than by small plane.

Wow was your friend the instructor on that one? Stall spin close to the ground or what?

 

[zaitcev]

Motorcycle and auto racing have a pretty fair risk of injury, but not a great risk of death. I smacked a wall at over 100mph once and cracked a rib, but nothing worse, and that's often the case.

Once again, an anecdote is not data. I crashed a Formula Ford and my airplane one time each, sustained injuries in the racecar, while walked away from the airplane. It does not prove or disprove anything.