NTSB Stats

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Shopshirt, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Shopshirt

    Shopshirt Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    238
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shopshirt
  2. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    14,501
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    The numbers really arent' comparable. THere's like 200,000 GA aircraft compared to over 11 million recreational boats. We don't even know how may recreational boat drivers there are as anybody can legally drive a boat.

    None of those numbers is a rate. They're absolute quantities. To have a rate, it would have to be expressed against some other measurement (hours, miles, etc...).

    I can pretty much guess however that none of the grade crossing fatalities involved airplanes.
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  3. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,638
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    deonb
    More people died from trespassing on railroads than from all of aviation.

    That’s a weird one.
     
    Datadriver likes this.
  4. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    15,124
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Which pipeline do we have to ride, to get that better rate?
     
  5. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Trespassers will be run over.
     
  6. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,228
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    Kern River. Boarding is at Opal....good luck
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  7. Shopshirt

    Shopshirt Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    238
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shopshirt
    I see your point Flyingron...I wasn't looking at it as the fatality rate of a population from participation in a particular activity, just a snapshot of where the most fatalities occurred related to the transportation categories. Also, it doesn't tell us if the Aviation fatality was during flight ops or was it a taxi event, someone who fell of a wing or ladder while refueling etc...just because there was an aviation related fatality doesn't mean it was a pilot or passenger.
     
  8. Todd82

    Todd82 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Todd
    Yet pipeline patrol flying is on the riskier side of the flying spectrum. Ying and yang. Balance. Something.
     
  9. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FormerHangie
    I'd guesstimate there are around 450,000 GA pilots, and in 2015 there were 229 fatal accidents. That's roughly one fatal accident per 2000 GA pilots. That's not encouraging.

    Maybe the numbers will be slightly better for 2016, but they've been stuck in a range for the last few years.
     
    Datadriver likes this.
  10. FloridaPilot

    FloridaPilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FloridaStudentPilot
    I still don't get why people obsess over something that is inevitable. If you are reading this you are here, and alive enjoy your life while you still can.
     
    WannFly and timwinters like this.
  11. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,165
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    The next time someone tells me how dangerous flying little airplanes is, I'm going to tell them twice as many people die riding "pedalcycles"
     
  12. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
  13. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    cone of confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KPTK
    Nothing weird about it. A lot of them are suicides.
     
  14. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    9,182
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    Death by train seems like a gruesome way to go.
     
  15. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    1,417
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jack Fleetwood
    I have a friend who just retired from Union Pacific. He said even a lot of the cars that get hit by trains are suicides. This can really affect the engineers. They can't stop, so these people are forcing them to kill them.
     
  16. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    8,219
    Location:
    Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    And survivors will be forced into a GA plane!
     
    WannFly likes this.
  17. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    I'm pretty sure the fatality rate in aviation is the same as for everything else: one death per person, sooner or later.
     
    WannFly and Salty like this.
  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,716
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    Highway fatalities were more than gunshot fatalities in 2016? Where's the outrage against vehicles?
     
    Zeldman and BigBadLou like this.
  19. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    Or maybe the outrage should be against poor marksmanship.... :)
     
    Ravioli likes this.
  20. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,716
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    I like that contrarian thinking.

    [BEGIN FAKE NEWS STORY] An NRA Spokesman announced today that if people had proper gun training, guns could kill more Americans every year than automobiles. We are committed to developing and selling that training. [end fake news story]
     
    BigBadLou likes this.
  21. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    8,219
    Location:
    Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    At our local Gun & Drug:

    [​IMG]
     
    denverpilot and Norman like this.
  22. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    14,295
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    Interesting. Here's an example (although no one was killed in this one):

    "On December 11, 2012, at about 12:41 pm EST, a buried 20-inch diameter natural gas transmission pipeline owned and operated by Columbia Gas Transmission Corporation ruptured just over 100 feet west of Interstate 77 in Sissonville, West Virginia. About 20 feet of pipe was separated and ejected from the underground pipeline and landed more than 40 feet from its original location. Three homes were destroyed by the fire after the escaping high-pressure natural gas ignited; no one was seriously injured."
    I guess that's considered a transportation accident because the contents of the pipe were being transported.
     
  23. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast

    Been there, got the t-shirt! :)
     
  24. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Stuff is being transported, that's for sure. Not really what the NTSB's original mission was but it makes sense. There were probably enough pipeline accidents that the need was felt to do something about it. An industry investigating itself usually doesn't work to well. State, local and even federal entities subject to partisanship, lobbying and campaign contributions ain't much better. It would have been a natural for someone to say "I got an idea, let's give it to the NTSB."
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  25. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,952
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    Does this fall under the motor vehicle or pipeline category (melted the pavement and siding on houses a block away)
     
  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,202
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Add into that the News helo goes down.
     
  27. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,738
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    Outrage is usually caused by bored housewives (soccer moms) who have nothing better to do than cry wolf and write letters to shut down airports, gun ranges, race tracks etc. Think of the children!
    They like their minivans so why would they write letters to get their cars and themselves off the roads? Hypocrisy at its best, if you think about it. :)
     
    Ravioli likes this.
  28. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    cone of confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KPTK
    Precisely. I'm a rail fan in my spare time and have a few contacts with local railroaders. Those deaths can affect train crews for years afterward.
     
  29. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    True, a gun range in my home town has just been ordered closed due to made up violations.
     
  30. Todd82

    Todd82 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Todd
    I know what pipeline is about, I did mapping for what was at the time the nation's largest liquid products pipeline company about a decade ago.

    And I also knew a pipeline flyer for us who had survived 3(!!!) crashes. Other harrowing stories as well from other flyers. I actually started my flight training back then with plans of flying for us then got scared off. When something goes wrong at 500 AGL and slow, not many options. Sure the pipeline right of ways are usually tree free but they're narrow and hilly depending where you are.

    Hence my point of the irony, pipelines are very safe, yet pipeline patrol flying is one of the more dangerous types of flying.
     
  31. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Location:
    New Bern, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Reno
    I read where around 10% of fatal air crashes are also believed to be suicide. I have read several NTSB reports where the plane does a descending turn into the ground immediately after takeoff. No mechanical issues found.
     
  32. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    5,511
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ken Ibold
    I read something once upon a time that alleged that more people are killed worldwide annually by donkeys than by airplanes. Wish I could find that reference. I hope it wasn't the Onion.
     
  33. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    14,295
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    Be sure that you also tell them that more people die flying little airplanes than playing Russian Roulette.
     
  34. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    cone of confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KPTK
    Sounds like something The Onion would publish but if you're a farm boy you know to either give horse's azzes a wide berth or be close enough they can't get their hoof in good contact with you.
    I know of a few who have played that game with a semi-autonomic. The medical examiner said they were a mess.
     
  35. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    5,511
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ken Ibold
    So I did some research and this claim appears to have been made up by an aviation safety expert decades ago who was stating it as hyperbole. But in the course of said research, I found stats that say four times as many people are killed by falling coconuts than sharks. Now, I knew beach vending machines kill more than sharks, but now we need to have coconuts and vending machines face off ...
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  36. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,596
    Location:
    Suwanee, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PancakeBunny
    Motor vehicle, I guess. Dude who ran into it survived!! Hope he bought a lottery ticket. That's one lucky SOB.

     
  37. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,952
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    Impossible. Medicals prevent this.
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  38. wayne

    wayne Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    wayne
    Check out death by hammers. Those things are deadly and should be banned.

    ;)

    More deaths by hammers each year than all types of rifles combined.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  39. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Research death while sitting on the toilet... increase your fiber intake, kids.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  40. Stephen Shore

    Stephen Shore Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    sshore
    The train "trespassing" thing is obviously railroad crossing accidents. We all still see people do some crazy things when those RR crossbars come down. Many years ago l drive my wife's Suburban one day and asked her why the hood had a huge scratch across the top of it. She hesitated and one of the kids shouted out that the crossbar came down on the Suburban as she tried to outrun it coming down.

    I would be interested in seeing the fatality rate of motorcycles. That mode of transportation just seems to be by far the riskiest method of transportation. I have come upon several motorcycle accidents and it is really hard to have a "minor" one of those.