Not so smart A&P IA

denverpilot said:
Many (good) shops are busy cranking through the work and have a good front office that handles keeping owners updated, such that if the owner really does stop by, they really don't need or want you out in the hangar getting in the way
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Not interested in what they want, only what's in my best interest. My plane, my money. I have the right to know what's going on while it's in the shop. Making good on the out-date is the toughest part of the job, and I know that it will slip if I don't stay in the loop.

I don't mind THAT type of service, really. It's more about the communication and customer service, than me looking over anyone's shoulder.
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Then don't do it. But don't be surprised when the job goes off track.
If you think shops don't know which customers show up to check on the job and respond accordingly, you are badly mistaken. Even without squeaking, the wheel gets greased.

Much of that could be automated with the right software. That software done right, wouldn't be cheap though.
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Our software cost $25k plus ongoing updates. Hangar hardware and servers were another chunk. Some shops won't spend the money.

Parking a cart with a pile of paperwork next to every airplane is pretty 1960s...
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Don't know where that comment came from, but our work-orders are all computer-based. Squawks are recorded on paper, since it's easier to correct and sort them prior to entry.

Tracking work in near real-time with a laptop on the same cart, would be far more useful in that it could tie into a web login for the owner to peek at, prices updated in real-time, etc.
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Real-time is of little value to owner. Too much stuff going on at any particular time, much of which will be revised or updated prior to completion of work order.
As previously mentioned, it raises more questions than it answers.

I'd hesitate but probably agree that a webcam always on in the shop that owners could peek in on, would probably have the same effect as the empty chair... If we're going for the "Big Brother is watching" feel.
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Big brother is when somebody else is watching. Customer interaction and accountability is when I'm watching. If you really want to know what's going on in the shop you gotta be there.

The ability to take an airplane to an out of town shop and show them online MX records would be wicked cool too. If the industry were growing still, this type of centralized MX software with customer interfaces would be a nice side-business for a person to start developing.
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Our software accepts pictures and images (MX manual excerpts, etc.) that can be forwarded to clients or others who need to see the problems rather than reading about them. It's not perfect but seems to work well for long-distance explanations and approvals. Some specialty shops do a lot of out-of-town work, but most MX is local.

But as we sit today, paper is King. And mechanics have to decide if they're going to work on airplanes or spend all day calling owners in smaller shops. It's a Catch-22 for them.
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Use of some paper is still the best way to do it. We tape the computer-generated list of remaining open items to each plane each morning with item status showing the required action. Techs can see what needs to be completed, Inspectors can easily see the items that need to be signed off and make any notes required. Techs can also see progress as the number of pages progressively gets smaller. We offer clients the option of receiving stuff electronically, but most like to have the paper in hand. (They could easily print it themselves, but most want hard copies from us.)
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schmookeeg said:
We've been experimenting with this exact thing for about 2 years, in various forms. We shut it completely off recently and I continue to work on it in private. The calls asking "why did you only work on my plane for 0/4/8 hours today? Don't you have 4 people working on the shop floor??" got a bit old. We also had a customer freak out that his billing info was on the internet, even though we don't bill from our site, run CC's manually, etc -- we couldn't convince this individual that a shower of nigerian princes was not about to take his identity on account of our showing him realtime status on an oil change.

I still think this is the correct approach, but there needs to be a pretty shocking "expectations management" session as a prerequisite to us turning those features on again. There seems to be this concept that even if we have 8 planes in the hangar, that we are 100% working on that customer's plane 100% of the time. We're good at scheduling and time management, but we're not that good.

We'll get it. :)
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Wow. People thought you work on their plane from sun up to sundown... LOL. Goofy pilots. It doesn't work that way.

Very cool that you gave it a shot.
 
wabower said:
Human nature is sometimes difficult to figure

The shop performs the inspection as requested and prepares the squawk list. The list is both extensive and expensive, and the shop owner confides that you would be better off by junking the plane you just bought and finding a better one than continuing to pay him to do all the work necessary to get your cream-puff back in airworthy condition.

Would you do it, or would you tell him to fix it?

We've had three such jobs show up this year. Guess how many followed the shop's advice?
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Very few would listen!

I've had a few of those over the years and usually no pre-buy. It's a great buy that the seller was forced to let go because his dog was ill (or many other reasons). If the plane is really that bad and I'm worried about payment or future lability problems, I tell them to just take it away. Those owners are the ones that dig their heels in and want it repaired no matter what and at any cost, then start adding in the elective items. I will do what ever is necessary to make it as easy for the owner to fly it away.

The "fixer upper" can be a real mess. It's really hard to quote on a job that can evolve a lot before it's done. I always prepare the owner for the reality that this aircraft is still not perfect and it will be a fighter for another year or two.

At a pre-buy we found a lot of metal in the engine filter and screen. The buyer went through with the purchase knowing that he would need to open it up and repair the engine. He was very upset at the updated repair quote. I felt bad later after I told him that it wouldn't be the last time that his aircraft would disappoint him. He ends up buying a good used engine that we installed. He calls me up about two years later telling me that the engine was suddenly using 1 qt of oil per hour. My advice was stop flying. (He didn't) You can fill in the rest. They really can disappoint you.

Back to the thread subject. The shop should be willing to back away on anything that wasn't approved. It's always been easy for me knowing my customers. I would often gamble and do small things without approval knowing I would be willing to back it out of the final bill if there was a problem. That's not easy to do when you don't own the shop.
 
Tom-D said:
What makes you think I wouldn't?
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Because you didn't include that in your long description of what you would do. What makes you think he wouldn't have come over as soon as you called?

OP's problem isn't that he was slow to respond to a finished job.
 
Jim_R said:
Because you didn't include that in your long description of what you would do. What makes you think he wouldn't have come over as soon as you called?

OP's problem isn't that he was slow to respond to a finished job.
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I usually don't state the obvious.

He did state that it was a while before he got back to the shop about the repairs.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
X2

It's a annual INSPECTION, you inspect and report, what the OWNER CHOOSES to do after that report is given to him is HIS choice.
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That is contrary to about 90 % of the owners that think that an annual is their 13th month maintenance period, and can't tell you what they paid for their inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
That is contrary to about 90 % of the owners that think that an annual is their 13th month maintenance period, and can't tell you what they paid for their inspection.
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This guy probably mistook me for a weekend warrior, it shall be his loss and perhaps when the court educates him to the LAW, he will not try to pull this chit with people who might not know better.

I will step back from this thread now and post after this is fully concluded.
 
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