Non-VFR altitude post-engine work

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obw

Pre-takeoff checklist
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After a six month annual and extensive engine work, I'm hoping to get my plane back this week. I have been noodling on the following - I was hoping to break the engine in by flying at 4500 feet in fairly large circles around the airport to stay within gliding range in case there are any issues. So, for half of the circle (180-359 degrees) I would be flying at the required VFR altitude, and for the other half I clearly wouldn't be. Any thoughts on this? For what it's worth, I was intending on requesting traffic advisories but would welcome opinions if there are likely issues with this plan.

Of course, I could just fly below 3000' but the diameter of the circles would be quite small...
 
obw said:
After a six month annual and extensive engine work, I'm hoping to get my plane back this week. I have been noodling on the following - I was hoping to break the engine in by flying at 4500 feet in fairly large circles around the airport to stay within gliding range in case there are any issues. So, for half of the circle (180-359 degrees) I would be flying at the required VFR altitude, and for the other half I clearly wouldn't be. Any thoughts on this? For what it's worth, I was intending on requesting traffic advisories but would welcome opinions if there are likely issues with this plan.

Of course, I could just fly below 3000' but the diameter of the circles would be quite small...
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When flying in circles it doesn’t matter. I’d consider lower than 4500 so your power stays up. I circled an airport at 3500 for a couple hours on my first flight after moh.

if you’re really worried about the altitude thing, get FF and tell them what you are doing. I did it above a towered airport and let tower know and stayed on their freq.
 
Yeah, you’re way overthinking it. Like @Salty said, you need to consider an altitude where you can run the proper power settings, which shouldn’t be an issue at 4500ft. Regardless of altitude, I’d still try to advise the appropriate controlling facility of what you’re doing.
 
Thanks all for the helpful comments.
 
RyanB said:
Yeah, you’re way overthinking it. Like @Salty said, you need to consider an altitude where you can run the proper power settings, which shouldn’t be an issue at 4500ft. Regardless of altitude, I’d still try to advise the appropriate controlling facility of what you’re doing.
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When ^^^ this man tells you you're overthinking things, you definitely ARE.

Here's a couple of helpful thoughts:

If you're departing a towered field, perhaps coordinate in advance with the folks there, just so they're prepared in case your maintenance flight becomes an urgent situation.

Do you have any special airspace to deal with? Class B/C floors? I'm going to guess NO, since the only thing you mentioned is the altitude bit.

If what you proposed was even anything close to true, holding patterns would sure be damn tricky!
 
And be glad you asked the question, for the great responses. I have done so much non-standard stuff while flying, yet I still get the heebie-jeebies doing a four cardinal heading GPS run at the same altitude to check TAS or some such thing. Keeps us honest.
 
After our starter adapter ate a bearing and all that crap, first or second flight I took it up to like 8000agl and did circuits above the airport towards a 5hr oil change.

Then I started thinking how bad I would screw up that power off 180 with 7 minutes to think about it on the way down.
 
catmandu said:
And be glad you asked the question, for the great responses. I have done so much non-standard stuff while flying, yet I still get the heebie-jeebies doing a four cardinal heading GPS run at the same altitude to check TAS or some such thing. Keeps us honest.
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For stuff like that and for what the OP is planning, or when “playing” in formation with someone else, I actually pick an IFR altitude. I’m not in cruise, so it’s not breaking any rules, and I know some controller somewhere is keeping IFR traffic away from me and my antics. Any VFR pilots in cruise are 500 feet above or below.
 
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IMO, I've flown a fair amount of vfr cruising altitudes in the last 3 months and I get very close to airplanes at those vfr cruising altitudes(not surprise thats where everyone is). I'd either get flight following which is the safest option, or review some airways and departure and arrival routes for whatever major airport is nearby, stay away from that area, and then select something like 4,750.
 
obw said:
After a six month annual and extensive engine work, I'm hoping to get my plane back this week. I have been noodling on the following - I was hoping to break the engine in by flying at 4500 feet in fairly large circles around the airport to stay within gliding range in case there are any issues.
Click to expand...

Do that, get FF and let them know what you're doing and worry more about the recommended break-in settings for the engine. It won't be exciting (hopefully) my first flight with our new engine.

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Llewtrah381 said:
For stuff like that and for what the OP is planning, or when “playing” in formation with someone else, I actually pick an IFR altitude. I’m not in cruise, so it’s not breaking any rules, and I know some controller somewhere is keeping IFR traffic away from me and my antics. Any VFR pilots in cruise are 500 feet above or below.
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Interesting suggestion. I never really considered an IFR altitude but it makes a lot of sense.

It looks like my original question may be moot - I spoke to my AP/IA yesterday and he was finishing up the paperwork on annual. He said that he likes to put the first couple of hours on a new/overhauled engine to make sure it's working fine, there are no leaks, everything is properly adjusted etc. So he'll be doing the initial flight and I'll pick it up afterwards. While I'll still be cautious with it, I'm now not planning on doing the 1-2 hours of airport circling but might take it on a longish cross-country (overflying as many airports as possible!). I'm lucky to have such a competent and conscientious mechanic.
 
When I was in a similar situation I told the Class D tower I would be circling within the D space 500 below the D ceiling.

-Skip
 
Sounds like a task for the ol' Navy Oscar pattern.o_O

Problem solved. Follow me for more bad ideas.
 
The first sentence of 91.159 makes it pretty clear that the rules apply:

"Except while holding in a holding pattern of 2 minutes or less, or while turning, " (my bolding)

Flying a circle over an airport is certainly turning. So regardless of any discussion about whether it's considered "cruising" or not, the hemispheric altitude rule does not apply here.
 
3000 agl or less makes it a moot point.
 
I make it about two and a half laps before I get bored. Then, assuming the engine temps are okay and it's running properly, I just point it in a good direction and go.
 
Stewartb said:
I make it about two and a half laps before I get bored. Then, assuming the engine temps are okay and it's running properly, I just point it in a good direction and go.
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I've done a couple of flights like this - and I'm amazed how bored I get so quickly.

I mean - for 99% of people it would be exciting as heck! Haha.
 
Think of it like flight training, how many times did you do 360 degree steep turns, or S turns or turns on a point etc? You didn't vary your altitude then (well not intentionally :D )
You're fine, just keep your head up and pay attention.

Going to IFR altitude and hoping a controller sees you is a worse idea IMO.
ATC only has to call out "participating" vfr traffic, so unless you're on the radio with them you're just flying with traffic around you who doesn't know you're there and isn't expecting you.
 
of course, one could ascend and descend to the correct altitude based on your current heading.... ;)
 
Justin Brady said:
Think of it like flight training, how many times did you do 360 degree steep turns, or S turns or turns on a point etc? You didn't vary your altitude then (well not intentionally :D )
You're fine, just keep your head up and pay attention.
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Not a valid comparison, since S turns and turns about a point are always done below 3000 AGL where the hemispheric rule doesn't apply, and steep turns usually are too.
 
obw said:
Interesting suggestion. I never really considered an IFR altitude but it makes a lot of sense.

It looks like my original question may be moot - I spoke to my AP/IA yesterday and he was finishing up the paperwork on annual. He said that he likes to put the first couple of hours on a new/overhauled engine to make sure it's working fine, there are no leaks, everything is properly adjusted etc. So he'll be doing the initial flight and I'll pick it up afterwards. While I'll still be cautious with it, I'm now not planning on doing the 1-2 hours of airport circling but might take it on a longish cross-country (overflying as many airports as possible!). I'm lucky to have such a competent and conscientious mechanic.
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The first 10 or 20 hours after my overhaul I did the “climb in the pattern until 4 or 5 thousand feet and then skip from airport to airport. It was probably 50 or 100 hours before I stopped climbing out above the airport.
 
I've done plenty of all of them over 3k in various training settings. It's hot down there in the summer :)

RussR said:
Not a valid comparison, since S turns and turns about a point are always done below 3000 AGL where the hemispheric rule doesn't apply, and steep turns usually are too.
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What is the break in plan? 2 hours at what throttle? Then oil change? Then you’re good to go?
 
Justin Brady said:
I've done plenty of all of them over 3k in various training settings. It's hot down there in the summer :)
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Interesting. Since the Private ACS requires S-turns and T-A-P to be done between 600 and 1000 AGL, I'm not sure what value doing them at more than 3x the height would provide. Different visual perspective and all.
 
Jim K said:
It's not a required altitude... it's a required CRUISING altitude.
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not true. the instant your course is passing 180 degrees you need to immediately start a 1000 ft climb. and once you pass 360 degrees you'll need to climb another 1000 ft. if you do it right you should reach the stratosphere within a few dozen turns
 
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