non pilot taxing airplane

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Lawson Laslo, May 10, 2019.

  1. Lawson Laslo

    Lawson Laslo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    i know its been asked many times
    but is there anything that specifically states that anyone can taxi a airplane
    this is as close to regulation that i can find
    "A person taxiing an aircraft that is not intended for flight is not acting as PIC under this rule, and therefore can not only be a private pilot, but the person doesn't have to be a pilot at all.
    There is no specific FAR that qualifies someone to taxi an aircraft, but aircraft operators and maintenance shops train and authorize mechanics to taxi and run-up engines."

    I know that i can leagly taxi my ercoupe even though i'm not yet a PP but is there anything that actauly states it
     
  2. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why do you need something to state it? What isn't specifically prohibited is okay.

    Rules are there to tell us what we can't do, not the other way around IMO.
     
  3. Lawson Laslo

    Lawson Laslo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    True, just didn't want to have people saying i cant taxi, even though i can but have no proof
     
  4. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The burden of proof would be on them. Just ask anyone that tries to say you can't to cite chapter and verse that says you can't and watch them sputter away.
     
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  5. Lawson Laslo

    Lawson Laslo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Will do!
     
  6. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Consider.....often an A&P will need to move an aircraft and not have a tug. Many have zero flight experience much less any kind of license.
     
  7. Bell206

    Bell206 Cleared for Takeoff

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    FYI: it falls to the local airport management or policies on the who, what, where of aircraft movement on an airport. If the airport serves air carriers then there are other requirements under Part 139 and Title 49. There's a thread on here that discusses this also.
     
  8. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If they say you can't taxi it, also ask them to show you the regulation that says you can't wear purple while flying an airplane.
     
  9. Fiveslide

    Fiveslide Pre-Flight

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    If you can't yet fly it, what is the purpose of this taxiing? Just for fun, engine testing, practice? Got a good reason to be doing it?

    I think you should be able to do what ever you want with your plane. But I don't make the rules.
     
  10. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Wonder what insurance would say?
     
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  11. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    As a another example. My office worked a taxi accident years ago caused by a A&P during a MX run-up. Due to other issues in the event they went after his A&P. However, they didn’t touch his Airman Certs due to the fact he wasn’t conducting his taxi operation for the intention of flight.
     
  12. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I would taxi over to fuel up and air up the tires before the CFI showed up, why spend 30 minutes doing this when you are paying $75 an hour?

    CFI showed up once when I was coming back and he said he didn’t care and it was legal but if something happened insurance wouldn’t cover it since I didn’t meet the requirements to be covered by the insurance yet. If I hit a hangar, plane, gear collapsed etc while taxing that’s a movement claim and not covered under the non movement liability.

    So I decided that I’ll wait for the CFI and pay him for his time just so I was covered under insurance.
     
  13. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Just don't try to wear purple in our house. Not allowed. That's one of the colors of the mutts (University of Washington) and there's no way you wear mutt colors in this Cougar house. :D
     
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  14. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Why would you pay your CFI while you fuel up and add air to the tires???
     
  15. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’ve always been charged from the time they got to the hangar. One even charges me his drive to the hangar.
     
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  16. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I wouldn’t pay for that. No way.

    I guess if somebody is dumb enough to pay for it, they’ll keep charging for it.

    Glad it’s you and not me.
     
  17. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I also paid them to fly around solo in my airplane for 10 hours so insurance would sign off on dual instruction. No CFI had enough time in type for insurance approval.

    But hey, I’m sure you know all the circumstances to make such a comment. So I’m an idiot apparently to you.
     
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  18. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I’ve heard some doozy’s, but yours just about takes the cake.

    If you enjoy paying for a service when you aren’t getting one, more power to you. I wouldn’t go for that, but I guess all of my instructors have just been honest about things.
     
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  19. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Not getting one? I got my ticket in my plane which is not a common plane and complex. Not a single CFI in the state met the requirements, I spent 5 days and called over 300.

    Also no one was willing to work with insurance so I could finishing training in my plane due to their requirements.

    But like I said, you’re the expert on the situation.
     
  20. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You’re missing my point and I apologize in advance for coming across so bluntly, but I have to call things like I see them.

    Look at it like this. Airline pilots don’t get paid while they’re commuting from home to base and vice versa. They also don’t get paid while they’re strolling through airport terminals and sitting in crew lounges. They get paid when they’re AT THE CONTROLS, so why should a CFI be held to a different standard?

    My point in paying for a service when you’re not getting one is essentially paying for the CFI, when he/she isn’t providing any value to you. Traveling to and from the hangar? That’s absurd. Most folks don’t get paid until they run their time card at the office, because you know why? They’re not providing any value to the organization while they’re fooling around in their car to and from home. The solo time you paid dual for is a bit crazy to, but I won’t get into that.

    Again. It’s not my ball game.
     
  21. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I don’t think you understand. I found 2 CFIs who were willing to jump through hoops to help me get my ticket on my own airplane. I was told no hundreds of time and over and over by every single local CFI.

    I was told to just finish in a Cessna. Problem is the insurance still had a 25 hour time in type before I could solo fly the plane after I got my ticket. And I would have to do those 25 hours with an CFI that met the same strict requirements.

    It wasn’t like I chose this or just said sure why not. I found the only 2 people WILLING to help.
     
  22. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I understand that your situation may be different. I’m just speaking on the way I interpreted it, so forgive me. I also think I misread the fact that you paid the CFI to fly solo in your airplane. I read it as you paid the CFI for you to fly solo in your airplane to meet insurance requirements, which didn’t make sense to me. I see what you mean now. :)
     
  23. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I was so happy to finally be able to fly my plane I was grateful the CFIs were willing. We had to rack up 25 hours in 2 weeks, we just did some long cross country flights to rack up the time so they could give me the solo endorsement.

    Trust me I was very close to just signing a no insurance waiver for the CFI as I felt defeated. It was such a hassle and I learned a lot about aviation insurance.
     
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  24. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    pffffffff....blow it out your wazzu. :D
     
  25. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Just because airline pilots don't get their normal hourly pay rate during that time, doesn't mean they aren't compensated. They are. And how many threads about CFI pay do we need?
    https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/charging-dual-rates-for-solo-flights.118564/
     
  26. Lawson Laslo

    Lawson Laslo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What airplane is it?
     
  27. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    I'm curious, too. When I bought my Mooney with just 62 Cessna hours in my logbook, ins only required 15 hours (including 5 actual / simulated IMC) with a Mooney instructor. When working on Instruments, the CFII had to fly solo for 5 hours (but was a regional airline pilot).

    Makes me wonder what kind of "unusual" plane the OP bought himself.
     
  28. IK04

    IK04 Line Up and Wait

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    These CFI threads are really urging me to instruct for lunch money only...
     
  29. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    This is what can happen to your zero time Airbus A340-600 if you let the ground technicians perform runup tests:

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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  31. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Its a free market economy. Just because certain rate structures are common, does not mean other rate structures will never be used. When I hire a plumber, I pay that plumber for the job done at my location. OTOH when one of my semi's is on the side of the road with a tire issue, I call the commercial tire vendor and I get a bill for the hours the tech spent fixing the tire as well as the hours the tech spent driving to and from the road service call as well a fuel surcharge and about half a dozen other service fees and charges.

    And I pay it because my options are pay it or sit on the side of the road and pound sand. The fact that plumbers don't charge me for the drive out to my location is irrelevant. If I want road side commercial tire service I have to pay for drive time. If the only CFI willing to work with the OP wants to be paid for drive time, the choices are pay it or pound sand. Airline pilots don't get paid for drive time? Great, call an airline pilot and see if they'll CFI for you. No? They won't? Too bad. Pay the drive time or pound sand. That's how a free market economy works. Cut the guy some slack.
     
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  32. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Go back and read post #22. I apologized for mis-interpreting.
     
  33. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    When traveling for work I get paid for travel time and waiting at client sites even though I’m not directly working. As a CFI I would expect to be paid during the time I was with the student, including time spent filling up the plane. If we stopped for lunch somewhere I would stop the clock.

    As long as the instructor and student are on the same page I think it’s ok and unfair to call the student dumb and the instructor dishonest.

    Fortunately it’s still a free market out there.

    Edit: disclaimer, I’m not a CFI but maybe one day.
     
  34. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    aftCG likes this.