No crankshafts available for 18-24 months

Datadriver

Datadriver

Line Up and Wait
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Datadriver
So sayeth Superior Airparts when I called them today for a quote on an XP-360
 
I wonder if Lycoming is experiencing the same lead times...?
 
Be glad they are even available. I had to pay the piper to find a used crank for my O-300.
 
Datadriver said:
So sayeth Superior Airparts when I called them today for a quote on an XP-360
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I wonder if that means they have incoming cranks that are already allocated or if their supply channel has completely dried up?
 
Something tells me big customers (like flight schools) must have another source.
 
I’ve never seen a Superior engine in the wild. I just got a O360 delivered and took Lycoming 8 months to deliver, although I forecasted that into my timeline when ordering.
 
I got the very, very last new TSIO-550 cranks in 2020.
It was an absolute miracle as people were not even selling used ones or overhauled ones.
$10K. Imagine being 'happy' at that.
AND the way they make metal parts these days, who knows how long it goes before it snaps in two like the last one.
 
Ughhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............. Welcome to my world!

3 years ago, I bought a low time Superior XPIO-360 to put on my RV-8. Logs looked good. I got to fly behind the engine before the guy who wanted "more power" pulled it off his airplane. It was a sweet deal!

A year later, the FAA declared it a paper weight with AD 20-25-12. Since then, the price of crankshafts for Lycoming and Superior parralel valve o-360 type engines have doubled and along with COVID supply chain issues, availability has gone out to more than a year.

I got lucky and found a yelllow tagged crankshaft for a somewhat reasonable price. But, I do not envy anyone who is trying to locate one of these now.
 
Clip4 said:
Let’s be honest with ourselves here folks, there are no trained machinists in the US because globalization reduced the wages to the level that people quit entering the occupation.
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The good news is that globalization is on its way out (mask-off moment with COVID, pun very much intended). The bad news is that the re-regionalization of supply will take a moment.

These things don't pivot in an instant, which should have been the first clue for the globalists to realize JIT inventory was an imprudence writ large, but that's water under the bridge at this point. Our domestic pain will continue, and consumption will be disrupted for a while, which will lead to job losses in the short term (2 year horizon). That's my Peter Zeihan "make it up, but say it categorically so people think you know what you're talking about" $2.75 (cuz inflation yo..). Don't shoot the self-reported Prophet :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
The good news is that globalization is on its way out (mask-off moment with COVID, pun very much intended). The bad news is that the re-regionalization of supply will take a moment.

These things don't pivot in an instant, which should have been the first clue for the globalists to realize JIT inventory was an imprudence writ large, but that's water under the bridge at this point. Our domestic pain will continue, and consumption will be disrupted for a while, which will lead to job losses in the short term (2 year horizon). That's my Peter Zeihan "make it up, but say it categorically so people think you know what you're talking about" $2.75 (cuz inflation yo..). Don't shoot the self-reported Prophet :D
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We can't. Ammo shortages. :D
 
Clip4 said:
Let’s be honest with ourselves here folks, there are no trained machinists in the US because globalization reduced the wages to the level that people quit entering the occupation.
Click to expand...
I wonder if this is true. You can get cast steel automobile racing crankshafts easily good for 500+HP off the shelf for less than $2K. You can get forged steel ones for less than $4k (700+ HP). These are US built, and I'll bet the tolerances are better than what TCM puts out when they bother to make any. I'll also bet you could get a qualified race shop here to reverse engineer a TCM 520/550 crankshaft and machine one from a billet steel forging for half of what TCM charges in less than a month, and it would be stronger and have closer tolerances than TCMs. I have a TCM TSIO520NB at TBO and frankly don't know what I'm going to do.
 
Lance F said:
I'll also bet you could get a qualified race shop here to reverse engineer a TCM 520/550 crankshaft and machine one from a billet steel forging for half of what TCM charges in less than a month, and it would be stronger and have closer tolerances than TCMs.
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Yes, but it would take another million to get the FAA to agree that it meets the TSO standard for that part. It isn't just about the part, it's about the pedigree of the materials and the entire build process.
 
I had a Superior IO-400 that, like all 400s, was recalled. While waiting for that engine 5 years ago Superior was having significant QC problems with their crank supplier in Germany. For those who don’t know, crank blanks are cast in ceramic molds. Each mold is expensive and is good for one casting, then destroyed to expose the crank. It’s a slow and technical process and apparently not easy to get right. Lycoming and Continental have had their share of crank issues, too. When waiting on my IO-390 to replace the 400 Lycoming couldn’t produce cylinders, so that cost me a year. It must be a tough business.
 
I'm totally aware that sadly the FAA is the ultimate holdup on this issue. I don't think it's for the lack of machining expertise in the US. I'll bet if Jack Rousch was crashing Cessna 414/421s rather than Cessna Citations and needed a crankshaft, a very good one could appear quickly from his engine shop. (and I'd gladly put one of those in my engine should one show up at my hangar door)
 
EdFred said:
Just say it's owner produced
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You might be jesting but doable. Dont know of any owner crankshafts but seen owner produced pistons for an older radial. Hardest part is getting the approval/install signed.
bflynn said:
get the FAA to agree that it meets the TSO standard for
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Lance F said:
I'll also bet you could get a qualified race shop here to reverse engineer
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No TSO on crankshafts but you can get a PMA via "identicality" which maybe an option for an existing race shop if they so wanted.
 
Clip4 said:
Let’s be honest with ourselves here folks, there are no trained machinists in the US because globalization reduced the wages to the level that people quit entering the occupation.
Click to expand...
Don't tell that to all the machinists in our Indiana plant that make crankshafts daily.
 
Bell206 said:
You might be jesting but doable. Dont know of any owner crankshafts but seen owner produced pistons for an older radial. Hardest part is getting the approval/install signed.


No TSO on crankshafts but you can get a PMA via "identicality" which maybe an option for an existing race shop if they so wanted.
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Sort of jesting as most of us don't have a milling machine capable of doing a billet that large.
 
Owner produced doesn’t mean you machined it. If you sourced the billet and had it sent to the machine shop, that is sufficient.
 
Pinecone said:
Owner produced doesn’t mean you machined it. If you sourced the billet and had it sent to the machine shop, that is sufficient.
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Right - you have to be involved in some way - providing material, specs, doing the work, etc. There's a list of 5 or 6 items, one of which the owner must do.

In general, racing shops picking up the work to build replacement engine components isn't likely to happen, regardless of their capabilities.
 
bflynn said:
Right - you have to be involved in some way - providing material, specs, doing the work, etc. There's a list of 5 or 6 items, one of which the owner must do.

In general, racing shops picking up the work to build replacement engine components isn't likely to happen, regardless of their capabilities.
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Racing shops might be slow during a recession, get your orders in now

Maybe (someone) collects several orders from poa and other (lesser, of course) aviation forums and that’s enough to get a shop interested
 
EdFred said:
Sort of jesting as most of us don't have a milling machine capable of doing a billet that large.
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Given the OP engine/crank is the non-certified owner produced not applicable and they can use a race shop to make another crankshaft. Might be a better route for a shop??

But to add on the certified side you dont even need to get dirty when participating with owner produced parts provided you got someone lined up who will.
 
Lance F said:
I wonder if this is true. You can get cast steel automobile racing crankshafts easily good for 500+HP off the shelf for less than $2K. You can get forged steel ones for less than $4k (700+ HP). These are US built, and I'll bet the tolerances are better than what TCM puts out when they bother to make any. I'll also bet you could get a qualified race shop here to reverse engineer a TCM 520/550 crankshaft and machine one from a billet steel forging for half of what TCM charges in less than a month, and it would be stronger and have closer tolerances than TCMs. I have a TCM TSIO520NB at TBO and frankly don't know what I'm going to do.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised this isn't happening in the experimental world already then. Save money, flip a bird at the FAA, AND get a better product? That has E-AB written all over it. :D
 
Or...


One of these could work...

I especially like the strict use of PPE.
 
Bell206 said:
Given the OP engine/crank is the non-certified owner produced not applicable and they can use a race shop to make another crankshaft. Might be a better route for a shop??

But to add on the certified side you dont even need to get dirty when participating with owner produced parts provided you got someone lined up who will.
Click to expand...

so I can owner source a crank and cam for my ‘71 O470 and enjoy life? Provided an AP will sign off? I definitely know a guy who’s been building race engines for decades
 
Chrome plate the damage. Is not it possible to have a grind-plate- grind repair done to the crank?
 
NavAir said:
Or...


One of these could work...

I especially like the strict use of PPE.
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A LOT of hand work there. I am sure CNC could stream line the process.

Did anyone Google the part number to see what cranks those are?
 
Pinecone said:
A LOT of hand work there. I am sure CNC could stream line the process.

Did anyone Google the part number to see what cranks those are?
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If you believe the YouTube comments it’s a Massey Ferguson diesel
 
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NavAir said:
Or...
YT
One of these could work...
I especially like the strict use of PPE.
Click to expand...

I admire the gitterdone in these videos but previous ones show smelting raw materials to make the blanks.
They were tossing anything of metallic origin into the crucible; zero control of the alloy. I have to wonder how long these cranks last.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I admire the gitterdone in these videos but previous ones show smelting raw materials to make the blanks.
They were tossing anything of metallic origin into the crucible; zero control of the alloy. I have to wonder how long these cranks last.
Click to expand...

Considering some of the problems there have been with aircraft engine cranks, perhaps it is no worse.
 
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