New (Used) Car Decision

So many people be hatin' on the CVT. I kind of like it.
Only hate it from a performance driving aspect. It feels mushy/sloppy due to the nature of its design. A lot of that will be dependent upon the software programming, too. It takes a minute for it to respond to quick throttle inputs or large throttle changes. If you're just driving with a light foot it does it's job admirably. If you're trying to use engine braking via paddle shifters, they can simulate holding a gear at given rpms, but it always feels artificial to me. Cycling through actual gears gives you predictable responses.
 
Have you considered a antique British car?
Lol. Believe me, I briefly looked at the Jaguar Supercharged XJ models. However, I don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling about dealing with a potential maintenance nightmare if something went sideways. I feel the same way about looking at the Audi brand. Jags and Audi vehicles are probably fantastic when owned during the warranty period and off-loaded shortly afterward.
 
Alright, the 2016-2018 Cadillac CTS Vsport has entered the chat, lol. Probably a better competitor to the Genesis G80 than the Q50 Red Sport is.084560_2018_cadillac_CTS.jpg
 
Did you go look at one yet?
No, not yet. Just some cursory research. I would imagine it'll be tough to get a test drive locally unless I just happen to come across one by luck. Lots of CTS out there, fair number of CTS-V models, but VSports are the rarest trim level of the bunch.
 
Only hate it from a performance driving aspect. It feels mushy/sloppy due to the nature of its design. A lot of that will be dependent upon the software programming, too. It takes a minute for it to respond to quick throttle inputs or large throttle changes. If you're just driving with a light foot it does it's job admirably. If you're trying to use engine braking via paddle shifters, they can simulate holding a gear at given rpms, but it always feels artificial to me. Cycling through actual gears gives you predictable responses.

It's all in the mapping. My Sentra has three modes, economy, normal and sport. Economy is worthless, normal is fine for everyday driving, but sport mode has a different transmission and throttle response map. It transforms an underpowered econobox in to something that can actually merge on to a freeway. Or be on it's own in the winding hills. It's not the CVT itself is the limiting factor, it is how it is mapped. Don't get me wrong, I was teethed on sticks and I love those the most.

But, that said, it's nice to cruise through the hills, left hand driving, and right hand engaged in acitivities I can't even post about in POA
 
It's all in the mapping. My Sentra has three modes, economy, normal and sport. Economy is worthless, normal is fine for everyday driving, but sport mode has a different transmission and throttle response map. It transforms an underpowered econobox in to something that can actually merge on to a freeway. Or be on it's own in the winding hills. It's not the CVT itself is the limiting factor, it is how it is mapped. Don't get me wrong, I was teethed on sticks and I love those the most.

But, that said, it's nice to cruise through the hills, left hand driving, and right hand engaged in acitivities I can't even post about in POA
Well, what happens in your car while driving solo can stay a secret, lol
 
Did you go look at one yet?

Well, I have put a deposit on a 2017 Cadillac CTS V-Sport, so you win the grand prize lol. Black exterior with premium luxury trim package w/Kona brown leather interior. Downside is that it's in TN so I have to fly out to Nashville and then drive it back to OK. Pictures show it is very clean, but we'll see if it holds true on a test drive.
 
Well, I have put a deposit on a 2017 Cadillac CTS V-Sport, so you win the grand prize lol. Black exterior with premium luxury trim package w/Kona brown leather interior. Downside is that it's in TN so I have to fly out to Nashville and then drive it back to OK. Pictures show it is very clean, but we'll see if it holds true on a test drive.
Nice, did you ever drive one or just going on a whim?
 
All else being equal I like Hyundais better than Datsuns. My last Caddy was an '89, and though that was a really good car it's not relevant to your search. I'll be interested to hear what you think of the new Caddy.
 
Nice, did you ever drive one or just going on a whim?

Just going on a whim. Did quite a bit of research with the CTS and ATS FB groups just for powertrain reliability. Really about the only negatives that come up are the moonroof being more problematic than most and the magride shock absorbers generally only lasting about 75K miles. The rest is pretty rave reviews. I have tons of airline miles so the trip doesn't cost me anything if I get in and just hate it. The way the market is, if I found out that I hate it I could sell it within a week pretty easily. There are only about a dozen of them for sale nationwide, and only one or two in this top trim level, so when they come up for sale you have to jump on them pretty quick.
 
All else being equal I like Hyundais better than Datsuns. My last Caddy was an '89, and though that was a really good car it's not relevant to your search. I'll be interested to hear what you think of the new Caddy.

Unless that Datsun was a 240Z ;) The Genesis looks like a great car, just very little dealer support still, and quite a bit low on performance compared to the Q50 Red Sport and CTS V-Sport.
 
Well, I have put a deposit on a 2017 Cadillac CTS V-Sport, so you win the grand prize lol. Black exterior with premium luxury trim package w/Kona brown leather interior. Downside is that it's in TN so I have to fly out to Nashville and then drive it back to OK. Pictures show it is very clean, but we'll see if it holds true on a test drive.

Nice! I'm itching to get my 2014 CTS-V Wagon back from the body shop (it was in an accident...), even though I already replaced it with a Viper.
 
Nice! I'm itching to get my 2014 CTS-V Wagon back from the body shop (it was in an accident...), even though I already replaced it with a Viper.

Man, I looked hard at a couple of '14 CTS-V sedans that were in OK/TX. I'd love the blown V8, but it was missing some of the nicer creature comforts/tech of the newer gen bodystyle. The newer CTS-V is still running $75K+, so that was out of my acceptable price range, lol. I know they can tune the V-Sport TT V6 easily over 500HP with a couple of bolt-on items, so it gets right with the '14 CTS-V if I feel I want to up the power. Nothing replaces the sound/glee from V8 with supercharger whining under the hood though!
 
Unless that Datsun was a 240Z ;) The Genesis looks like a great car, just very little dealer support still, and quite a bit low on performance compared to the Q50 Red Sport and CTS V-Sport.
One had a lady stop by the salvage yard asking for a 24 ounce alternator.

Took a few more questions for her to produce a scrap of paper that had the notes from the mechanic and the way she wrote it.”

Please go to Denton County Auto Salvage and pick up a 24 Oz alternator for your Datsun
I have added that story to the ones I used to fool the keyboard kiddies at Autozone. 710 pump, Corvair coolant reservoir….
 
One had a lady stop by the salvage yard asking for a 24 ounce alternator.

Took a few more questions for her to produce a scrap of paper that had the notes from the mechanic and the way she wrote it.”

Please go to Denton County Auto Salvage and pick up a 24 Oz alternator for your Datsun
I have added that story to the ones I used to fool the keyboard kiddies at Autozone. 710 pump, Corvair coolant reservoir….

The 24oz alternator was a lightweight performance option compared to the 26oz or 28oz options, lol.
 
I would be interested in a cts-v if they were available in the awd variety.
 
I would be interested in a cts-v if they were available in the awd variety.

Gotta get the new CT5-V Blackwing or CT6-V Blackwing if you want that. 10-speed transmission, AWD, and a 668HP blown V8. 3.5sec 0-60 and mid-11's in the 1/4 mile. They're only about $99K to start, lol.
 
Gotta get the new CT5-V Blackwing or CT6-V Blackwing if you want that. 10-speed transmission, AWD, and a 668HP blown V8. 3.5sec 0-60 and mid-11's in the 1/4 mile. They're only about $99K to start, lol.
Oh, I wasn't aware they offered that model. Hmmm, guess I'll have to wait a few years. I can afford it, but I'm too cheap frugal to pay for one at that price.
 
Oh, I wasn't aware they offered that model. Hmmm, guess I'll have to wait a few years. I can afford it, but I'm too cheap frugal to pay for one at that price.

Yeah, they're pretty pricey. I think the AWD version comes with a lower HP 4.2L supercharged V8, but it's still pretty salty. The 6.2L V8 may be RWD-only. From what I understand, Cadillac reported that most owners of 600HP+ cars aren't going bombing down a canyon in the snow/rain with them. Obviously there are plenty of six-figure vehicles that do offer AWD performance at those power levels, but the juice probably wasn't worth the squeeze for Caddy to make them in such low volumes as they approach their EV-futures.
 
I pulled the trigger and bought a new 4WD SUV and sold my 4Runner. This is the first time in 50 years of car ownership that I have not bought a Toyota. Why would I make such a radical move, you may ask? I'm a field geologist. I work out of an RV because of the room, comfort (after 60 years of sleeping on rough ground, I figured I had nothing left to prove, especially to my aging hips, shoulders, and knees), and ability to charge my computer, not to mention to be able to gather with my colleagues for discussion out of the weather. In the past, I have relied on my colleagues for rides in the field, but there have been times I've wanted to go into the field myself, and the only way I could do that was have my husband drive the RV while I drive my 4Runner (= my field vehicle). Then he has to hang around the RV all day by himself while I'm in the field, something he did for about 5 days once and declared he would never do again.

The problem is I go into places where an RV towing a car hauler would be impractical, if not impossible. And the 4Runner can't be flat towed. Also, it was old enough (2005) that it lacked features I've come to appreciate in my Camry, e.g., hands-free calling and Sirius XM. Even though I LOVED my 4Runner (and it had some sentimental value, having been my late husband's last car), I realized I had to have a field vehicle that could be flat-towed behind the RV. So I bought a (new) 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Now one thing I was very concerned about was comfort, because one of the reasons I've always had Toyotas is that it's like the seats are built specifically for me, something that is important on long drives. No other manufacturer even came close, but the JGC is very comfortable. And it can be flat-towed.

Now the part you all might have more than a passing interest in: Do not trade in your used vehicle. It's always been true that you can get more by selling a vehicle yourself than trading it in, but the differential right now is amazing. When we listed the 4Runner, we asked > 60% more than the dealer would take it in trade and 40% more than KBB. This was based on news stories that used cars are going for 36% more than they were a year ago. We did not ask enough. Unfortunately, we didn't figure this out until we'd already committed to sell it to someone for the asking price. We could have gotten twice what the dealer offered, maybe even more. If you list a used car, set a minimum price and take bids. Granted, 4Runners are particularly desirable, so this might not work for every used car, but the used-car market is extremely hot right now.

We started getting calls within 5 minutes of listing it on Craigslist. The buyer flew up from California with our asking price in cash (a large bundle of 100s) even though it was a holiday (yes, we checked the bills to make sure they weren't counterfeit!). We had other calls from California, central Oregon, and southern Idaho (5.5 hours away), northern Washington (4 hours away), and some people didn't say where they were calling from. It was pretty amazing.
 
I pulled the trigger and bought a new 4WD SUV and sold my 4Runner. This is the first time in 50 years of car ownership that I have not bought a Toyota. Why would I make such a radical move, you may ask? I'm a field geologist. I work out of an RV because of the room, comfort (after 60 years of sleeping on rough ground, I figured I had nothing left to prove, especially to my aging hips, shoulders, and knees), and ability to charge my computer, not to mention to be able to gather with my colleagues for discussion out of the weather. In the past, I have relied on my colleagues for rides in the field, but there have been times I've wanted to go into the field myself, and the only way I could do that was have my husband drive the RV while I drive my 4Runner (= my field vehicle). Then he has to hang around the RV all day by himself while I'm in the field, something he did for about 5 days once and declared he would never do again.

The problem is I go into places where an RV towing a car hauler would be impractical, if not impossible. And the 4Runner can't be flat towed. Also, it was old enough (2005) that it lacked features I've come to appreciate in my Camry, e.g., hands-free calling and Sirius XM. Even though I LOVED my 4Runner (and it had some sentimental value, having been my late husband's last car), I realized I had to have a field vehicle that could be flat-towed behind the RV. So I bought a (new) 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Now one thing I was very concerned about was comfort, because one of the reasons I've always had Toyotas is that it's like the seats are built specifically for me, something that is important on long drives. No other manufacturer even came close, but the JGC is very comfortable. And it can be flat-towed.

Now the part you all might have more than a passing interest in: Do not trade in your used vehicle. It's always been true that you can get more by selling a vehicle yourself than trading it in, but the differential right now is amazing. When we listed the 4Runner, we asked > 60% more than the dealer would take it in trade and 40% more than KBB. This was based on news stories that used cars are going for 36% more than they were a year ago. We did not ask enough. Unfortunately, we didn't figure this out until we'd already committed to sell it to someone for the asking price. We could have gotten twice what the dealer offered, maybe even more. If you list a used car, set a minimum price and take bids. Granted, 4Runners are particularly desirable, so this might not work for every used car, but the used-car market is extremely hot right now.

We started getting calls within 5 minutes of listing it on Craigslist. The buyer flew up from California with our asking price in cash (a large bundle of 100s) even though it was a holiday (yes, we checked the bills to make sure they weren't counterfeit!). We had other calls from California, central Oregon, and southern Idaho (5.5 hours away), northern Washington (4 hours away), and some people didn't say where they were calling from. It was pretty amazing.

Congrats! As far as the outdated features, things like handsfree calling/XM/Android Auto/Apple CarPlay could have been easily remedied by buying a new aftermarket stereo for $500 or less. However, it won't update a lot of the other tech features like your new GC has. I've always liked the JGC, but man some of the newer electronic stuff makes me feel uneasy, especially if I was way off the beaten path. The 4Runner (and other older 4WD vehicles) just had a lot less to go wrong. I hope you enjoy that JGC and I am certain the ride quality will be better than any 4Runner ever produced, and hopefully the reliability comes close as well.
 
Congrats! As far as the outdated features, things like handsfree calling/XM/Android Auto/Apple CarPlay could have been easily remedied by buying a new aftermarket stereo for $500 or less. However, it won't update a lot of the other tech features like your new GC has. I've always liked the JGC, but man some of the newer electronic stuff makes me feel uneasy, especially if I was way off the beaten path. The 4Runner (and other older 4WD vehicles) just had a lot less to go wrong. I hope you enjoy that JGC and I am certain the ride quality will be better than any 4Runner ever produced, and hopefully the reliability comes close as well.

I hate to admit it, but the Jeep actually handles better, is quieter, and rides smoother than the 4Runner--on the highway. It remains to be seen how it does off paved roads.
 
We started getting calls within 5 minutes of listing it on Craigslist. The buyer flew up from California with our asking price in cash (a large bundle of 100s) even though it was a holiday (yes, we checked the bills to make sure they weren't counterfeit!). We had other calls from California, central Oregon, and southern Idaho (5.5 hours away), northern Washington (4 hours away), and some people didn't say where they were calling from. It was pretty amazing.

Your story reminded me of the time I had a knock at my front door. A man was standing there, with a briefcase, and introduced himself, and asked if I was the owner of a particular Jaguar XKE.

He was here to buy it, and while it wasn't for sale, the briefcase and its contents changed my mind.

Sounds like fiction - but it is true.
 
Says me it isn't a sports car if it hasn't a stick. I'm never again driving a car without one.
Well, the Corvette, most Ferraris, Porsches, etc. would seem to defy your statement. PDK/paddle shifters have pretty much dominated the sports car market for over a decade. Although I do agree that I love having a manual to row through the gears.
 
I hate to admit it, but the Jeep actually handles better, is quieter, and rides smoother than the 4Runner--on the highway. It remains to be seen how it does off paved roads.

The only thing I can remember being a downside to the JGC's I've driven as rentals (2019/2020 models) was the lack of interior space comparatively to its competition. For the size of the vehicle, the interior panels were bulky and seemed to limit the space inside, especially in the cargo area. I always wondered about the decision to buy one back then when the Dodge Durango was 99% the same vehicle for a lower price, but with a larger cargo area and 3rd row seating. However, I thought I heard that they made some changes in 2021 (or maybe 2022) that was going to correct some of that complaint. However, if it's just the two of you in the Jeep, I doubt you're at a lack of interior space even with a bunch of your field equipment, lol.
 
The cargo space is a little bit smaller than the 4Runner, but not much.
Your story reminded me of the time I had a knock at my front door. A man was standing there, with a briefcase, and introduced himself, and asked if I was the owner of a particular Jaguar XKE.

He was here to buy it, and while it wasn't for sale, the briefcase and its contents changed my mind.

Sounds like fiction - but it is true.

That actually happened to my husband, who used to rebuild cars and hotrods. In his case, it was a '59 Corvette. The guy offered $10K cash and a Jaguar XKE. In the 70s, $10K was a lot of money.
 
Well, it's official. A short test drive and 7.5hrs of driving later, it's back home. Those those twin turbos really get up and go, but I'm far more impressed by the steering feel and handling. Caddy did a great job with this one.

2017 CTS V-Sport Premium Luxury trim w/Kona brown interior.
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